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08-31-2008, 04:56 PM | #391 | ||
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,559
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McCain's message was that he is a man of experience and would surround himself with people who also offer much experience. Palin completely invalidates this claim. Why is this so hard for you people to understand? See, the question is ultimately not if Palin has experience; the question is why did McCain brag about bringing real experience to Washington, but then pick a #2 with even less than Obama? Romney, Ridge, Lieberman, Pawlenty, or even Jindal would have fallen in line with his experience message. Instead, once again, the straight talk express made a u-turn. And you guys called out John Kerry in 2004 for being inconsistent... McCain has seriously flipped on issues and positions more times than perhaps any other Presidential candidate in recent history. McCain just enjoyed sneaking up on Obama in polls while he was on vacation, largely in part because his experience message was starting to stick; then he turned his back on it and went with someone who hasn't even been a governor for two years, and before that, was a mayor for an extremely small town and worked for the PTA. Obama on the other hand has a solid law background, was a community organizer, a member of the Illinois state senate from 1997-2004 (Republicans ALWAYS skip the state senate experience when they compare him to Palin, it's funny), and then went on to the US Senate. And McCain dying while in office is NOT unlikely. The man has all kinds of problems, and initially said he wouldn't even run for President in 2008 because he'd be too old. Found this to be pretty funny: Quote:
What's most interesting about Palin is that it seems like the possibility of her winning over a significant amount of Hillary fans is not as good as many thought; her real strength is starting to show with evangelicals according to today's polling, a key part of the Republican party McCain has been having some trouble with. It's too bad he didn't pick Lieberman like he wanted to. Election day would have been over before it even started. Obama would have won in a landslide. Last edited by Gish08 : 08-31-2008 at 05:19 PM. |
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08-31-2008, 05:02 PM | #392 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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08-31-2008, 05:17 PM | #393 | |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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What is there to assume that wasnt the main intent to begin with? I've mainly seen the notion of winning over Hillary people presented by Obama supporters. Makes more sense than them thinking woman = locks up womens vote. Any defectors are just a plus. Last edited by Future Boy : 08-31-2008 at 05:24 PM. |
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08-31-2008, 05:23 PM | #394 | ||
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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I'd understand it if it was an "Aha, John McCain really doesn't care about experience afterall!" kind of thing...even though that really does the Dems no favors because it still doesn't negate his massive experience advantage over Obama. It's just another flip-flop to add to McCain's pile. But that hasn't really been the main criticism that I've been seeing. What I've been seeing is "OMG, how can the GOP put someone that inexperienced 'one heartbeat away' from the Presidency?" It's one thing to point out that McCain might have gone back on some promise of surrounding himself with experience, but it's quite another thing for someone supporting Barack Obama to call anyone out for lack of qualification...and the latter is what I've seen more of. Quote:
Last edited by Corganist : 08-31-2008 at 05:32 PM. |
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08-31-2008, 05:31 PM | #395 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Exactly. I think that the pick was made more to appeal to the base (which it has done) than some kind of Hail Mary to bring Hillary voters over en masse. There aren't enough girl-power, hear-me-roar, Hillary voters who just want to vote for a woman to base a major campaign decision like that around. Any Hillary voters that vote for McCain because he has a woman on the ticket are just a bonus on top of what gains have been made in solidifying the base.
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08-31-2008, 05:48 PM | #396 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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Palin's experience is so miniscule that it's completely valid for dems to pick on it. Sure, Obama doesn't have as much "experience" as McCain, but Palin is even less. You can nitpick or brush away the years he spent on the state legislature, but at least Obama, for over the last year and a half, has successfully run a national, multi-million dollar campaign, organizing hundreds if not thousands of workers, and beaten very "experienced" opponents. Sarah Palin has not done anything remotely like that on a grand national scale.
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08-31-2008, 05:48 PM | #397 | |
Immortal
Location: I like me so much better when you're naked
Posts: 21,752
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The difference is people got a CHOICE to put Obama in the position of president. Repubs chose McCain, and here he makes this completely fucked up choice for VP and it wasn't a choice given to the people. He was voted in for his long term record of good decisions, people expected the VP decision to fall in a similar line. We're 65 days away from the election and there's some stranger on the ticket. Whether or not Repubs / Independents actually WANT Palin as president, they may feel cornered into voting for McCain anyways still. Biden's choice only strengthens Obama's experience, he was a man who had supporters for the Presidential slot on his own and has a history. Would you have voted for Palin in the primaries? Would you have thought her a credible ready choice? Would millions of other people have agreed? To ask someone with no experience or previous thought of doing something like this just seems so un thought out. |
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08-31-2008, 05:50 PM | #398 | |
Immortal
Location: I like me so much better when you're naked
Posts: 21,752
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THIS |
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08-31-2008, 05:52 PM | #399 | ||||||
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,559
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Compare this to Obama (who has more than Palin) and Biden (who has just as much if not more than McCain), two people who I am sure will talk to one another on a daily basis about how to make decisions. If something, as awful as it would be, happened to Obama, Biden literally would be able to take over immediately. And Obama doesn't get enough credit. He has experience, just not Washington insider experience. He's a well-educated man with a fantastic law background (and most importantly has a deep understanding of CONSTITUTIONAL law), who forms his opinions and policies carefully and has much previous political experience before his US Senate run. He can debate well, knows how to communicate to his audience and knows how to run a campaign. Sarah Palin quite frankly does not. She doesn't even have a degree in anything that really pertains to the meat and potatoes of what goes on in the White House (journalism -- come on, that's for the Press Secretary). Quote:
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And, truthfully, McCain's age worries me should he be elected, especially since his VP is -- no offense to respectable women out there -- a complete airhead. Quote:
Last edited by Gish08 : 08-31-2008 at 06:06 PM. |
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08-31-2008, 05:55 PM | #400 | |
Rambling on
Posts: 20,542
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08-31-2008, 05:57 PM | #401 |
Immortal
Posts: 25,684
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When asked a year ago if she thought the surge would work, Palin said she didn't know because she hadn't really been following the war.
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08-31-2008, 06:02 PM | #402 | |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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08-31-2008, 06:05 PM | #403 |
Rambling on
Posts: 20,542
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08-31-2008, 06:22 PM | #404 |
Saturday Night Goth
Location: POLLOS
Posts: 9,207
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Just got back from a get together with some obnoxiously republican relatives. The general consensus amongst the females?
"Good for him for picking a woman." |
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08-31-2008, 06:33 PM | #405 | |||
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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08-31-2008, 06:35 PM | #406 |
NO FATS
Location: NO FEMS
Posts: 29,003
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08-31-2008, 06:37 PM | #407 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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This.
I saw once what the ratio of time Obama has spent either campaigning or preparing to campaign vs. time he's spent governing over the past 10 years. I'll have to see if I can find it again, but the gist of it was that he's spent much more time telling everyone what he's going to do than he has actually doing it when he's gotten the chance. |
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08-31-2008, 07:06 PM | #408 |
spanish harlem mona lisa
Location: the barrio
Posts: 10,081
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no black people in alaska, fyi
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08-31-2008, 07:17 PM | #409 |
Rambling on
Posts: 20,542
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doubt she's seen many Mexican migrant workers either
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08-31-2008, 07:19 PM | #410 |
Rambling on
Posts: 20,542
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she'd be a fine president
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08-31-2008, 07:57 PM | #411 |
spanish harlem mona lisa
Location: the barrio
Posts: 10,081
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tell it to puffy!
he's so.... well-spoken |
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08-31-2008, 07:57 PM | #412 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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Bush/Rove campaigned hard on ideological, divisive principles. Only going for their base, and fuck the rest. These same principles are the exact same way he governed and that's why the country has suffered. Obama has built from the ground up a national network reaching out to voters on both sides. Though his rhetoric is liberal, his actions are pragmatic and compromising (much to your displeasure). |
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08-31-2008, 08:08 PM | #413 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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"campaigning" vs. "governing" or "executive experience" vs. "legislative experience" are just arbitrary labels, obfuscating the real argument.
publius: Quote:
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08-31-2008, 08:36 PM | #414 | |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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The notion that any major presidential candidate actually handles or is heavily involved in the day to day running of a campaign is a bit misguided. If so, the candidate which has won more campaigns for higher office has the most/best experience. It's a bad thing to point to for executive experience, regardless of candidate. Actually my displeasure is in him not being liberal enough, but whatever, I'm not getting into that again. |
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08-31-2008, 08:43 PM | #415 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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08-31-2008, 08:50 PM | #416 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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Your response seems to think that I'm trying to argue that Obama has a lot of great experience. I'm not. I'm only arguing Sarah Palin's experience pales in comparison to Obama's. So any hand-wringing of Obama's experience, should on the same basis, be many times worse on Palin. That is all when it comes to Palin. When it comes to McCain, it shows how bad his judgement is. It's clear that Palin wasn't even properly vetted. Which just highlights a reckless decision. Impulsive and decided last minute. These are not qualities I want in my president. |
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08-31-2008, 09:08 PM | #417 |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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I dont disagree with that. I guess I misunderstood what you were saying with "Obama, for over the last year and a half, has successfully run a national, multi-million dollar campaign, organizing hundreds if not thousands of workers, and beaten very "experienced" opponents. Sarah Palin has not done anything remotely like that on a grand national scale."
As for vetting, I thought he offered it the sunday before the convention started, I wouldnt call that last minute. I think they got what they wanted out of the pick. Energize the base, take the focus off Obama's speech. What makes me question his judgment is that he wanted Joe Lieberman. He wouldn't even get him the base. |
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08-31-2008, 09:10 PM | #418 |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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Hey, this Palin bitch is incredibly backwoods but she's at least a looker, right?
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08-31-2008, 09:12 PM | #419 |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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Hey man, nice shot.
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08-31-2008, 09:13 PM | #420 |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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Kind of the opposite of a post/av, too.
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