Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[redbreegull]

petition to ban this asswipe. does it need its own thread?

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by Toast

OK, I guess that ends that. Everyone pack your bags. Pay attention, because the "celebrity" just schooled us.

Marvel Actor Mark Ruffalo Demands Ceasefire In Gaza And Israel: “We’re Not Going To Bomb Our Way To Peace’

Ends what? You never reply to anything.

Why the parentheses? He is a celebrity, no matter how you turn it.

[TuralyonW3]

Rightwing obsession with what celebrities say is so weird, like they’re not human beings or something

[TuralyonW3]

Like, sucking the teat of oil barons and bitcoin shucksters but being all STFU HOLLYWOOD

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by Toast

OK, I guess that ends that. Everyone pack your bags. Pay attention, because the "celebrity" just schooled us.

Marvel Actor Mark Ruffalo Demands Ceasefire In Gaza And Israel: “We’re Not Going To Bomb Our Way To Peace’

You’re a retard.

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by TuralyonW3

Like, sucking the teat of oil barons and bitcoin shucksters but being all STFU HOLLYWOOD

Yeah it's a joke. Cynicism become religion.

[vixnix]

From the FT today. Wtf. How soon can sane Israelis remove this madman

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has finally unveiled Israel’s plans for Gaza after hostilities end in the enclave, submitting to his war cabinet a formal proposal that directly contradicts the objectives of the US.

The one-page document, released overnight by his office, makes no mention of any role for the Palestinian Authority, the West Bank-based rival to Hamas that the Biden administration wants to see take over control, and rejects unilateral international steps towards recognition of a Palestinian state.

It also foresees a sizeable security buffer within the besieged enclave, an outcome the US has made clear it opposes. John Kirby, spokesperson for the US National Security Council, on Friday said “we don’t believe in any reduction of the size of Gaza”.

While vaguely worded, and appealing to his domestic rightwing political base, the Israeli document entitled “The Day After Hamas Principles” is the first official distillation of Netanyahu’s prior statements on the issue. It is not clear whether the war cabinet was asked to vote on it.

Dividing Gaza’s future into near, medium and long-term phases, it makes clear that Israel will continue its long-running blockade of the enclave and intends to remain involved in civilian life there, including local policing and the teachings of schools and mosques.

[smashingjj]

[This is a username crisis.]

Can Netphoria solve this conflict? Big if true!

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

I found this guy really difficult to listen to, and partly because I find claims of genocide and ethnic cleansing are difficult to take seriously when the Palestinian population has grown by a few million people since 1967.

It’s a horrendous situation…but I just don’t know if ethnic cleansing/genocide is the right way to frame it

I dunno. Maybe I just haven’t thought it through enough

[TuralyonW3]

Originally Posted by vixnix

I found this guy really difficult to listen to, and partly because I find claims of genocide and ethnic cleansing are difficult to take seriously when the Palestinian population has grown by a few million people since 1967.

It’s a horrendous situation…but I just don’t know if ethnic cleansing/genocide is the right way to frame it

I dunno. Maybe I just haven’t thought it through enough

It’s because Gaza has a very high birth rate; nearly half their population is children (tens of thousands of whom have been killed so far)

In just first three weeks, more Palestinian children were killed by Israeli bombing in Gaza than have all children in all of the world’s conflict zones since 2019.

[TuralyonW3]

Around 1.7 million people in the Gaza Strip are estimated to have been internally displaced – half of them children. They do not have enough access to water, food, fuel and medicine.

https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/c...saving-support

[TuralyonW3]

Israel has and uses the power to cut off food, power, and all basic life necessities to these masses of Gazans. The Gazans then flee to where they are told, and are still attacked and killed, many of them still in their evacuation caravans. These civilians (many of them kids/teens) do not have the power/choice to free the hostages that Hamas is holding.

[TuralyonW3]

del

[ovary]

i heard a US academic expert on international war crime law or whatever on the quillete podcast and he said:

1. there is a strict legal definition of genocide that israel's actions do not meet because the civilian deaths are "collateral damage." to count as genocide, they need to be exclusively targeting civilians, not just killing them in addition to combatants. reporting i've seen suggests many of these strikes are directed exclusively at civilians, but who knows/i'm not there/fog of war/whatever. also, i mean, he was on quillete.

2. part of international genocide law is that if a state determines an action to be "genocide" then they have a legal obligation to intervene. so states rarely use that term.

3. there are other legal terms like "crimes against humanity" (just any killing of civilians) that israel certainly *is* committing, but rhetorically there is incentive on both sides to instead talk about "genocide"... the left can utilize it as a rhetorical bomb, and the right can shift the convo toward whether the actions meet that stricter definition, rather than confronting the more obvious war crimes head on.

[vixnix]

If I separate what is happening now from what happened previously - in terms of what is happening now, with the mass displacement of people, potential widespread death due to basic needs for survival not being met, and that being controlled by the current Israeli government - I think that has the potential to be genocidal.

And maybe I am wrong - but that video above seemed to suggest this was the tactic from the time Israel created itself as a state - ethnic cleansing/genocide. That’s the bit I find hard to reconcile that with the population growth in Gaza.

I think it’s fucking terrible, what the current Israeli government is doing. Military action in Rafah, after advising everyone to go there to avoid military action, with so many families and children living in tents, is hard to process. Just in case I’m coming across some other way. I’ve refrained from commenting about it because I’m so ignorant. And I do feel it’s more complex than just what Israel is doing, there are a lot of interdependent factors or however people what to describe it. But I can’t understand how Israel moving into Rafah, and Netanyahu now laying out this batshit crazy plan, can be anything except fucking terrible.

[smashingjj]

this one is long, but really good, much more in depth than the one above, to which I substantially do agree. if you have the time, watch, or rather listen to it, it's podcast-y

[smashingjj]

the part starting at 56.54 about Biden is something I especially would like the Biden supporters of this board to listen to

[Joey Goldberg]

Trump 2024?

[smashingjj]

[Toast]

So how about the active duty Air Force serviceman who burned himself alive outside of the Israeli embassy in DC?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ1cpb8Ilk0&rco=1

He got a lot done, didn't he??

[Toast]

Remember when Syria was torturing and slaughtering Palestinians, and virtue-signalling American lunatics were setting themselves on fire in protest?

3,196 Syrian Palestinians Were Killed by Syrian Regime Forces, including 491 Due to Torture, Between March 2011 and July 2020

The Syrian Network for Human Rights (SNHR) reveals in its latest report released today that at least 3,196 Syrian Palestinians were killed by Syrian Regime forces, including 491 due to torture, with 49 of those detained appearing in the ‘Caesar’ photos, between March 2011 and July 2020, noting that at least 2,663 Syrian Palestinians are still detained or forcibly disappeared by the Syrian regime.

Yeah, I don't remember that either.

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by Toast

Remember when Syria was torturing and slaughtering Palestinians, and virtue-signalling American lunatics were setting themselves on fire in protest?

3,196 Syrian Palestinians Were Killed by Syrian Regime Forces, including 491 Due to Torture, Between March 2011 and July 2020



Yeah, I don't remember that either.

Do you ever feel like you’re pissing into an empty hallway?

[Toast]

Yeah, I know you're a hypocrite p.o.s. who couldn't care less.

[ninsp]

Originally Posted by Toast

Yeah, I know you're a hypocrite p.o.s. who couldn't care less.

ha. if you think so, you really know nothing about my political views

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by ovary

i heard a US academic expert on international war crime law or whatever on the quillete podcast and he said:

1. there is a strict legal definition of genocide that israel's actions do not meet because the civilian deaths are "collateral damage." to count as genocide, they need to be exclusively targeting civilians, not just killing them in addition to combatants.

I wonder where the line is officially then. if you kill a million civilians and one combatant, you're off the hook?

[Disco King]

When it comes to war crimes, it's not so much how many civilians are killed, but whether you took any precautions to at least try to minimize civilian casualties rather than just feeling free to bomb anyone unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity of a combatant.

Even if the other side is committing a war crime, like purposely putting military bases in civilian-populated areas like schools, that doesn't relieve their adversary of the responsibility to at least try to do what they can to minimize civilian deaths.

This is just for war crimes generally. I don't know about "genocide," specifically. I think with genocide, intent is important.

[smashingjj]

well when it comes to that

all kinds of people from the current Israeli government have said how intent they were on eradicating Gaza and its civilians

Netanyahu had a plan to "thin" the Gazan population to a minimum, there's this other guy praising how beautiful Gaza looks now that it's been bombed and flattened, the defense minister with the human animals thing, someone else literally calling for Gaza to flattened and empty "just like auschwitz", and then there is this Amichai Eliyahu pointing out the option of nuking Gaza since there are "no innocent civilians there"

these people are currently in power and this is what they say they want

is intent really so hard to prove?

[Disco King]

That does sound pretty genocidal tbh

[ovary]

i definitely realize that as a random dumb american i can have no idea what is really going on because my info sources are so limited, but yeah it does sound pretty genocidal tbh