Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Smashing Pumpkins Boards > Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2022, 06:46 PM   #61
Elphenor
Braindead
 
Elphenor's Avatar
 
Location: Shivers
Posts: 16,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
you probably weren't even born in '97.
I was 3

 
Elphenor is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2022, 07:23 PM   #62
majesty
Pledge
 
majesty's Avatar
 
Posts: 86
Default

There was a lot of hype. It was released I want to say early June but Im not sure - I just remember all these gothy kids in their black zero long sleeves queuing and wilting in the heat. MTV Europe went hard with Ava Adore and all music mags had some kind of feature on the band / record. I was broke traveling that summer. I eventually scrounged some money for Adore and Celebrity Skin in October. autumn, many Mellon Collie fans had abandoned ship. The boards were lit with new fans who went hard with the zeal of the newly converted. I remember when the Perfect vid was recorded, there were accounts of board members who were there and so excited because the band was in rocking form and the vid was a sequel to the Mellon Collie hits.

 
majesty is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2022, 08:26 PM   #63
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Shallowed's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by majesty View Post
many Mellon Collie fans had abandoned ship. The boards were lit with new fans who went hard with the zeal of the newly converted.
i've always had this impression from the sound of the audiences on bootleg recordings

 
Shallowed is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2022, 09:02 PM   #64
trev
charm
 
trev's Avatar
 
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
For Martha, on the other hand, is a fucking masterpiece
agreed.

is this where we say it's really a late mcis era track and that's why it's the best of the adore era, and people here lose their minds?

 
trev is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2022, 09:44 PM   #65
Forgotten Child
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Forgotten Child's Avatar
 
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAlter View Post
.

Radiohead on the other hand were more like we got ourselves new toys and were having fun.
Haha yeah when I think of Radiohead I immediately think "those guys are having fun". Right.

 
Forgotten Child is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 01:41 AM   #66
TheAlter
Ownz
 
TheAlter's Avatar
 
Location: Purple house on N. Greenview Ave Chicago, the year is 1993
Posts: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Haha yeah when I think of Radiohead I immediately think "those guys are having fun". Right.
These are Oxford guys, mate. Their idea of fun is a CR78 and a bench.

Youre the Fred Durst backwards hat kinda guy. You do it all for the nookie.

Its never gonna work.

 
TheAlter is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 03:25 AM   #67
Ram27
dumb
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: james yee-haw
Posts: 9,173
Default

who the fuck is bashing to sheila in here

some of the best lyrics corgo ever wrote

Quote:
A summer storm graces all of me
Highway warm sing silent poetry
I could bring you the light
And take you home into the night

 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 03:36 AM   #68
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,549
Default

To Sheila was the most disappointing opening at that point in the sequence. And especially jarring as a follow up to MCIS. Like instantly lackluster.

 
ilikeplanets is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 04:31 AM   #69
TheAlter
Ownz
 
TheAlter's Avatar
 
Location: Purple house on N. Greenview Ave Chicago, the year is 1993
Posts: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
who the fuck is bashing to sheila in here

some of the best lyrics corgo ever wrote



You didn’t hear it from me.

Btw those lyrics mate, me/poetry, light/night? C’mon… he’s done so much better

 
TheAlter is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 08:29 AM   #70
eviltimeban
Apocalyptic Poster
 
eviltimeban's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
To Sheila was the most disappointing opening at that point in the sequence. And especially jarring as a follow up to MCIS. Like instantly lackluster.
It's a perfect opener IMO, as it's not the obvious way to start an album (much like MCIS title track was more like an overture). It would've been more obvious to start with Ava Adore, and To Sheila would slot in somewhere later on the album.

To call it lacklustre is sort of missing the point of it.

 
eviltimeban is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 09:30 AM   #71
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Shallowed's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,505
Default

to sheila is the BEST opener of any pumpkins album

 
Shallowed is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 09:52 AM   #72
T&T
Socialphobic
 
T&T's Avatar
 
Location: montreal
Posts: 10,551
Default

To Shiela CLOSES mcis. "twilight fades...." it's the perfect and obvious way to start the album.

 
T&T is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 10:47 AM   #73
eviltimeban
Apocalyptic Poster
 
eviltimeban's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
To Shiela CLOSES mcis. "twilight fades...." it's the perfect and obvious way to start the album.
Nice link. Though it's the kind of thing that was probably accidental but BC will say it was done that way on purpose.

 
eviltimeban is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 12:03 PM   #74
Joey Goldberg
Minion of Satan
 
Joey Goldberg's Avatar
 
Location: in the line for drinks (or is it just tickets to buy the drinks?)
Posts: 5,123
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
To Forgive is firmly in my top 20. To Sheila is a skip. To Forgive has that swelling bridge section and the singing is full of emotion. To Sheila has....repeated lyrics and plucky guitar. Not the same.
for as much as we seem to generally disagree on Adore, I'm w/ you on this one

and for the record, I like To Sheila. Just don't see it as this Porcelina-level masterpiece some of you treat it as - and in terms of Pumpkins "love" songs, give me Luna, By Starlight, or SIYL over it any day

sorry Sheelz!

 
Joey Goldberg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 12:08 PM   #75
Joey Goldberg
Minion of Satan
 
Joey Goldberg's Avatar
 
Location: in the line for drinks (or is it just tickets to buy the drinks?)
Posts: 5,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAlter View Post


You didnt hear it from me.

Btw those lyrics mate, me/poetry, light/night? Cmon hes done so much better
boy, am I really being cornered as the "spearhead" of anti-To-Sheiladom? I wasn't even the first bloke talking about it! & with my signature, boy this really ain't the best look for my Pumpkins-based political campaign
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Team MAKINA

Quote:
Why are you here? Seriously if he sucks and his music sucks doesn't your fucking piece of shit ass have better things to do. Guess not, my god what a pussy.
Quote:
Joey Goldberg how COULD you

 
Joey Goldberg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 07:35 PM   #76
Kenny.Aronoff
Amish Rake Fighter
 
Kenny.Aronoff's Avatar
 
Posts: 14
Default

Was a good time to be playing music with Billy Pumpkin.

 
Kenny.Aronoff is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 08:03 PM   #77
trev
charm
 
trev's Avatar
 
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
boy, am I really being cornered as the "spearhead" of anti-To-Sheiladom? I wasn't even the first bloke talking about it!

 
trev is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 10:06 PM   #78
selection7
Demi-God
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trev View Post
i've never understood the huge praise for to sheila from so many fans...

it's not terrible, but i never go out of my way to listen to it. i'll skip it most of the time.

for me it's about on par with songs like purr snickety, or to forgive. a decent enough song, but nothing amazing compared to the typical 90's pumpkins standard.
To Forgive is firmly in my top 20. To Sheila is a skip. To Forgive has that swelling bridge section and the singing is full of emotion. To Sheila has....repeated lyrics and plucky guitar. Not the same.
That To Forgive is possibly the worst song on MCIS, and it's still a great song, really says something about that album.

 
selection7 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2022, 11:46 AM   #79
Joey Goldberg
Minion of Satan
 
Joey Goldberg's Avatar
 
Location: in the line for drinks (or is it just tickets to buy the drinks?)
Posts: 5,123
Default

No, but that post sure says a lot about you!

 
Joey Goldberg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:02 AM   #80
selection7
Demi-God
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post
No, but that post sure says a lot about you!
Ha, nope!

 
selection7 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:12 AM   #81
Shadaloo
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Shadaloo's Avatar
 
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,440
Default

I thought it was a near universally held opinion that Love or WOCOAN were the worst things on that album; this is the first I've ever heard anyone nominate To Forgive for that dubious honor

For my money the real answer is Tales Of A Scorched Earth

But anyway To Sheila is lovely, I never skip it.

 
Shadaloo is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:19 AM   #82
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Shallowed's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,505
Default

songs i've heard others say are the worst on the album:

to forgive
love
cupid de locke
take me down
tales of a scorched earth
we only come out at night
lily

cupid and tales are two of my all time favourites

 
Shallowed is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:26 AM   #83
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Shallowed's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,505
Default

my all time favourites:

jellybelly
here is no why
fuck you
cupid
galapgos
porcelina
thirty three
tales
ruby
xyu
by starlight
farewell and goodnight

everything else is okay but i feel little to nothing for them, or i don't need to hear them ever again

 
Shallowed is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:30 AM   #84
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Shallowed's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,505
Default

mellon collie is as dense with filler as ok computer

 
Shallowed is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:38 AM   #85
selection7
Demi-God
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 304
Default the rare thread that's not nonsense!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I think part of what killed SP and Adores momentum was the change in mainstream musical direction. Billy was totally betting on rock music being dead after grunge died off.
Not sure I can agree that Billy was betting on the future of music other than maybe he thought it would follow him like he was some sort of rock pied piper.

Similar to something else you said, I think he was just doing his thing, but coming from a totally new head space of having achieved everything, within reason, he'd ever set out to do. That didn't work for him then or at any point since.

The Adore-era quote that resonates with me the most is Billy saying, in hindsight, he realized he was artificially limiting/constraining himself (paraphrased). It was as if he felt that to avoid treading water and somehow find yet another way forward, he'd have to challenge himself by leaving behind much of what made him great—that he'd worked so relentlessly for a decade to build. And he was wrapped up enough in his own success to not fully appreciate the risk of falling short and how quickly TSP's seemingly unstoppable momentum could be brought to a halt.

My memory of the fan reception was that Adore was initially well received, but then, of course it was. TSP could have released anything after those recent string of years and it would have been accepted by default. That's how groupthink works. But it didn't take the more casual fans long for their interest to shift elsewhere, and it was ultimately the beginning of the end of mainstream fandom. Since then, the fanbase has only gotten more and more niche. About a decade ago, even most of the burnouts moved on. I'm not sure how to describe current fans.

Last edited by selection7 : 01-20-2022 at 01:49 AM.

 
selection7 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 01:42 AM   #86
selection7
Demi-God
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
I thought it was a near universally held opinion that Love or WOCOAN were the worst things on that album; this is the first I've ever heard anyone nominate To Forgive for that dubious honor

For my money the real answer is Tales Of A Scorched Earth

But anyway To Sheila is lovely, I never skip it.
If BC released an album these days where every song was as good as Love, it would probably end up being my album of the year.
Also, TOASE gets my blood boiling. Each to their own, though.

And part of my point was that it's not really dubious to be the worst song on MCIS. Still a great song. Enjoyable to play on guitar, too.

Last edited by selection7 : 01-20-2022 at 01:50 AM.

 
selection7 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 02:23 AM   #87
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,549
Default

My unpopular opinion of Lily being the worst MCIS track remains

 
ilikeplanets is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 02:23 AM   #88
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,549
Default

I've heard all the arguments for it, and I just don't enjoy it

 
ilikeplanets is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 11:33 AM   #89
Joey Goldberg
Minion of Satan
 
Joey Goldberg's Avatar
 
Location: in the line for drinks (or is it just tickets to buy the drinks?)
Posts: 5,123
Default

people who hate Tales didn't have a bad enough childhood

 
Joey Goldberg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2022, 11:33 AM   #90
Joey Goldberg
Minion of Satan
 
Joey Goldberg's Avatar
 
Location: in the line for drinks (or is it just tickets to buy the drinks?)
Posts: 5,123
Default

& Lily's cute

Well, as cute as a song about felony voyeurism can be

which as it turns out, is pretty cute!

 
Joey Goldberg is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Age Of Innocence Big Truck05 Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion 59 07-10-2021 08:43 AM
Kick-Ass was a far better movie than I expected Nimrod's Son General Chat Archive 45 06-14-2012 06:02 AM
The Leak/Torrent/YSI/Sharing Megathread (02/09/11) AndySlash Music Board Archive 105 11-25-2011 03:56 AM
9/11/01..........9/11/11 The Omega Concern General Chat Archive 70 09-30-2011 07:28 PM
COUNTERCULTURE MAINSTREAM Jesus Cambodia Pumpkins Archive 5 01-17-2009 10:24 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright 1998-2022