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Old 01-14-2022, 11:50 AM   #31
Joey Goldberg
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Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I remember this as well. I actually was bullied on the playground because of my Adore cassette haha. I was in the fifth grade at the time. Might have been the first time I was called "gay" as well.
this really was the go-to term for liking anything strange (or at least, perceived as strange but stupid little kids) around this time, huh? I remember getting the first Gorillaz album and when everyone realized Clint Eastwood was sort of the only "rap song" on it save for Rock the House, i got the "what're you GAY?" shit immediately

needless to say, i gave up immediately on Gorillaz and music in general from that point forward. well done, kids!

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
When the songs were first debuted it was on KROQ I think, Ava Adore/To Sheila/Perfect
I have such a clear memory of sitting in my dorm room, having gotten these L33T leaks, and hearing To Sheila for the first time. I don't think I've ever heard a song and thought, "This is going to be a favorite of mine forever now" on a first listen, before or since, but I was hooked on that one from the first line.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:37 PM   #33
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SP took all those things (new style from out of nowhere, image change etc) and employed them on Adore, but it didn't appeal to the general public. Where the Beatles were still cute with their moustaches and shiny military suits (and Radiohead didn't really have an image to start with), the bleak Nosferatu gothic look wasn't going to appeal to many, especially in the summer of 1998 (which I think I remember being a pretty good summer weather-wise).
Musical merits aside, attitudes played a big role, imo.

BC all of a sudden wanted to play the matured artist, suit, tie, rock is dead. On the Adore tour he dressed like a background actor in Chicago PD, leather jacket, elegant, all black.

I bet most people had this sense of “oh playtime’s over, now it’s serious”.

Radiohead on the other hand were more like “we got ourselves new toys and we’re having fun”.


Btw you fucking hate Radiohead, don’t you?

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:21 PM   #34
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I still to this day can't think of another band doing something this career suicidal at the height of their fame. SP's audience at its core were rock fans and so were the mainstream. While I didn't know anything about the tour at the time looking at it now, what the hell were they thinking? It is just straight up hard to listen to with the three drummers, lite guitars and Billy singing so differently. It's also unappealing visually with all the suits and fashion run way shit.

I remember defending the band around the Adore era right after the first wave of Numetal exploded during the fall of 98. I mean try trading a cassette of Adore to a ravenous rock fan when they had 10 - 15 other ground breaking albums to chose from.

That whole late 97 era transitioning into 1998 had to be hard on Billy. Pretty much everything he did for almost a decade went the best way possible. Then it was all over and he never recovered.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:43 PM   #35
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I still to this day can't think of another band doing something this career suicidal at the height of their fame. SP's audience at its core were rock fans and so were the mainstream. While I didn't know anything about the tour at the time looking at it now, what the hell were they thinking? It is just straight up hard to listen to with the three drummers, lite guitars and Billy singing so differently. It's also unappealing visually with all the suits and fashion run way shit.

I remember defending the band around the Adore era right after the first wave of Numetal exploded during the fall of 98. I mean try trading a cassette of Adore to a ravenous rock fan when they had 10 - 15 other ground breaking albums to chose from.

That whole late 97 era transitioning into 1998 had to be hard on Billy. Pretty much everything he did for almost a decade went the best way possible. Then it was all over and he never recovered.


He has mentioned before that - even though it was a first world problem type thing - it completely screwed with his head. Not only had he achieved the success most rock bands dream of, but did it by being completely contrarian: releasing two dense classic rock aping albums with Gish and Siamese Dream, releasing a successful double-album, and then releasing an additional box of b-sides from that double album. It truly was astonishing, went against all conventional wisdom, and I can imagine he felt taking that contrarian approach would result in success again with Adore. He even mentions (I believe in the liner notes for the re-issue), that the band was still successful by many metrics even after the "failure" of Adore. The album went platinum and even though the band played smaller venues, they were still selling tickets, but all of a sudden his non-stop run of luck ended.

Also, I have never understood why people thought The End is the Beginning is the End sounds "electronica". To me, it sounds exactly like something from the MCIS sessions, with maybe a little more emphasis on the synths and mellotron in the final mix. Until he clarified, I always assumed the song was some Mellon Collie riff he worked up into a song for the purposes of the Batman & Robin soundtrack (both of the soundtracks for those Joel Schumacher Batman movies were dope).

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:02 PM   #36
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and then he overcorrected the other way with The Everlasting Gaze and Machina tanked. Classic Bill

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:25 PM   #37
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I never understood the RH was more successful than SP arguments.
Both bands have sold about 30million records worldwide to date (and it took RH all the 2000's to catch up while billy's been fucking around destroying his career)
billy has a net worth of 60 million - thom york @ 45 million....
SP did the free album online in 2000 with machina 2, while RH did inRainbows 7 years later.


adore did suffer from bloat, but SP fans were ravonous and giving us a million songs is what fans had been used to. TAFH box set, PI, b-side compilations.... KidAmnesiac was split into two releaes. RH just arn't as prolific songwriters. Billy knows he's got more and more songs in his well - the well is deep. he just suffers from production issues. going against the grain made him rich, for adore, it didn't work.


his mom died. now with his fathers passing we should get the adore sequel.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:05 PM   #38
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because by successful we're not just talking about numbers and money, but the fact that only 1 of those bands have people who aren't Mormons appreciating their post-2000s output

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:31 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
billy has a net worth of 60 million - thom york @ 45 million....
L...O...L

Computer, HOW MUCH IS THE DAD FROM FRASIER WORTH

I do find it hilarious that if you google "Billy Corgan net worth" you get this Corgan family display



OH SHIT, is that a previously unseen photo of Chris Fabian??? Computer, ENHANCE


















 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:34 PM   #40
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Radiohead literally only have one good song and they ripped it off and refuse to play it live. I will never get their hype.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:35 PM   #41
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weird troll attempt

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:51 PM   #42
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Some actas if sp was the biggest band in 1998...

Come on....those interested in music toppled over sp on alt radio....but the rest has never heard of sp...

Ok, 2 great alternative album... But that was it...

Led zeppelin, beatles stones, etc.... They play in a total different league..

Sp was never a mass phenomenon...
They absolutely were the biggest band in America for at least 6 months. Beatles level? No, of course not. But BWBW was a big hit and then Tonight, Tonight was the biggest video of the year by far. It was seen as a great song and the video was seen as a masterpiece of the era.

By 1998 the biggest bands were like boy bands (actual bands like Hanson and singing groups like Backstreet Boys), "light" rap like Puff Daddy and Coolio and Tupac, etc.

Karma Police and Paranoid Android were very popular songs but too weird and/or long to be as big as something like 1979.

In America.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:59 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
About a month later there is some hype for Billy's work on the Ransom soundtrack. I remember watching the movie and not really hearing anything SP sounding at the time.

1997: I finally get the Ransom Soundtrack and Billy's songs have some cool moments but feels a little aimless.

I do not remember the song Christmastime during this period for some reason.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Ransom. I got both of these. Ransom made me almost worried, since they sounded very "techno" to me then and I was worried rock songs were completely over. Also, you had the TEITBITE remixes and 1979 remixes around this time which were very electronic as well.

I remember getting A Very Special Christmas 3 and, later on, Sweet Relief II (with Sad Peter Pan) at this little dingy record shop. I don't even remember anything else about the albums except that there was a terrible No Doubt song somewhere. Side note though, No Alternative is awesome as a whole.

Adore was definitely seen as Billy has gone weird. They tried to make another 1979 with the Perfect video and, I'm sorry, Billy, but you should never wear a cowboy hat. And he was also on Regis & Kathy Lee around this time.

It definitely felt like BC thought he failed with Adore so he went back on his "rock is dead" gimmick, but by then the 'failure' had affected him so profoundly that it was the majority of what he was thinking and therefore writing about. Thus songs like TEG and HMM.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 05:13 PM   #44
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By 1998 the biggest bands were like boy bands (actual bands like Hanson and singing groups like Backstreet Boys), "light" rap like Puff Daddy and Coolio and Tupac, etc.
Boy bands invasion didn't happen for about a year after Adore. Hanson's MMMBop's was out of the charts by summer 98. It was also not a lite year for rap, it was heavily dominating the top selling charts with Master P, DMX, Snoop Dogg and Lauryn Hill who was actually knocked off the charts briefly by Manson.

The top selling bands of 98 were Madonna's ray of light, Cher's believe and Korn's Follow the Leader.

The mainstream seems to have no longer been unified after the death of grunge music. The 00's was the first decade to really be compartmentalized by genre.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 05:15 PM   #45
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weird troll attempt
No, I mean that genuinely. You should look up their streaming stats. If we were to base their popularity on that alone they would be twice the size of the Pumpkins. They would actually dwarf Nirvana and the Foo Fighters by nearly a half.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:38 PM   #46
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I remember being the only one amongst my crowd liking it but for me it was the first 'new' music i'd heard from the band - although I guess Aeroplane would count but I don't think I knew that back then.

The appearance on Jools Holland (where Daphne and Once Upon are noticably faster), I remember being really special and then the following week(day?)'s performance on MTVs 5 Night Stand just built on that, even the "this is for Northern Ireland, haven't forgotten about them have you" or whatever, and the different versions of Tonite and Stumbleine (strumbelrine?) made it one of those pivotal things.

I honestly can't tell how much of this album is the album or being 16.

Last edited by thomas_bland : 01-15-2022 at 03:22 AM.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:07 PM   #47
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Radiohead literally only have one good song and they ripped it off and refuse to play it live. I will never get their hype.
LMAO bet is this song, innit?

"Take Your Dick Out Of My Ass And Stick It In My Mouth" is the debut single by English alternative rock band Radiohead, released on 21 September 1992.

Thom Yorke's lyrics express an obsessive, self-destructive sexual attraction. When the song moves to the chorus, Jonny Greenwood produces blasts of guitar noise.

 
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Old 01-15-2022, 06:46 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
I have such a clear memory of sitting in my dorm room, having gotten these L33T leaks, and hearing To Sheila for the first time. I don't think I've ever heard a song and thought, "This is going to be a favorite of mine forever now" on a first listen, before or since, but I was hooked on that one from the first line.
Ah To Shelia. That song never sounds bad, has never dated, and never disappoints. I think it sort of got lost among the bloat of Adore, but as a standalone it has to be a top 10 Pumpkins track.

I put it on the other day when I was playing the vinyl reissue, and it filled the room and was beautiful.

What we wouldn't give for a To Shelia now.

 
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Old 01-15-2022, 06:52 AM   #49
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Musical merits aside, attitudes played a big role, imo.

BC all of a sudden wanted to play the matured artist, suit, tie, rock is dead. On the Adore tour he dressed like a background actor in Chicago PD, leather jacket, elegant, all black.

I bet most people had this sense of “oh playtime’s over, now it’s serious”.

Radiohead on the other hand were more like “we got ourselves new toys and we’re having fun”.


Btw you fucking hate Radiohead, don’t you?
I do and I don't. I couldn't stand them in the Bends - OK Computer era. However I like Kid A, primarily because it doesn't sound like Radiohead. The only other album I've listened to is a Moon Shaped Pool, which I liked parts of. I've also listened to Yorke's second solo album, which I liked musically but not so much vocally.

I don't believe Radiohead were having fun btw. I think they hated being Radiohead, being a big stadium rock band, and desperately wanted to be something else. That desperation comes across in the music, and informed it's atmosphere. That's what made the album what it was. I don't know this, but I suspect them making Kid A was as fun for them as SD was for the Pumpkins (i.e. not very).

I agree with the "play time is over" - I think what made SP so refreshing originally is that they were very playful. Their original look, their stage presence and banter, and Billy being such a non-rock star with his little boy hair and charity shop clothes. The fact they looked and acted the way they did, but made these incredible genre defining albums, was very appealing.

I still think though that their time in the limelight was up, either way.

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 07:09 AM   #50
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i've never understood the huge praise for to sheila from so many fans...

it's not terrible, but i never go out of my way to listen to it. i'll skip it most of the time.

for me it's about on par with songs like purr snickety, or to forgive. a decent enough song, but nothing amazing compared to the typical 90's pumpkins standard.

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 07:49 AM   #51
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Listen to To Sheila.
Listen to Wyttch.
Listen to To Sheila.

Bet To Sheila is now a fucking masterpiece, isn't it?

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 09:25 AM   #52
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We all had big boners for the months leading up to Adore. Then the album was released and we quickly went flaccid.

By 1999 Billy was complaining that nobody understood it and he was salty about not not being embraced as brilliant. .

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:00 PM   #53
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Listen to To Sheila.
Listen to Wyttch.
Listen to To Sheila.

Bet To Sheila is now a fucking masterpiece, isn't it?
that could work for anything tho

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:01 PM   #54
Joey Goldberg
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& trev, i'm actually kinda with you on To Sheila - but i "get" why people around here cream buckets over it because most of you are just head over heels for that "folk shit"

or whatever

For Martha, on the other hand, is a fucking masterpiece

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:03 PM   #55
Joey Goldberg
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To Forgive is one of my favorite Pumpkins songs tho

so we can still do battle

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:52 PM   #56
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that could work for anything tho
Listen to To Sheila.
Listen to Rocket.
Listen to To Sheila.

FOH with that shit, mate. I want my band back, and my songs, and my dreams.

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:57 PM   #57
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& trev, i'm actually kinda with you on To Sheila - but i "get" why people around here cream buckets over it because most of you are just head over heels for that "folk shit"

or whatever

For Martha, on the other hand, is a fucking masterpiece
I saw Billy and the Smashing Nobodies play on the anniversary of his mother's death and he delivered the most powerful For Martha...few things live up to being described as "Epic" but it truly was

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 05:27 PM   #58
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you probably weren't even born in '97.

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:16 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by trev View Post
i've never understood the huge praise for to sheila from so many fans...

it's not terrible, but i never go out of my way to listen to it. i'll skip it most of the time.

for me it's about on par with songs like purr snickety, or to forgive. a decent enough song, but nothing amazing compared to the typical 90's pumpkins standard.
To Forgive is firmly in my top 20. To Sheila is a skip. To Forgive has that swelling bridge section and the singing is full of emotion. To Sheila has....repeated lyrics and plucky guitar. Not the same.

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:31 PM   #60
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I do not remember the song Christmastime during this period for some reason.
Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one. Like, the first time I ever heard it was the McMurderson parody years after the fact. I don't recall even hearing it existed at the time.

 
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