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Old 01-13-2022, 03:02 PM   #1
BurtSampson
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Default What was the hype for Adore like in late 1997?

https://archive.org/details/tsp1997-...-11-01t08.flac

https://archive.org/details/sp1997-10-19.ccm4.flac16

Just now realizing they were debuting Adore songs this early, and it's an interesting listen compared to the rest of the material they were touring on. Were people excited by these tracks coming out or was it when people maybe started to realize that Adore wouldn't be the techno album they were promised

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:15 PM   #2
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all i remember is Ava Adore was on alt radio nonstop. at least in Chicago.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:18 PM   #3
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The hype was insane. They were flying airplane banners that said, "you will always be my whore."

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:12 PM   #4
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The hype was insane. They were flying airplane banners that said, "you will always be my whore."
Lmao is it true or you just kidding? C’mon

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:47 PM   #5
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Oh yeah! Funny how I never put two and two together on those; at the time I thought it was a well-intentioned but creepy marriage proposal where the whore in question kept not looking up at the right time

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:11 PM   #6
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I do remember the biggest story on everyone's lips, around that time, was that Taylor Swift was now just seven years away from signing her first songwriting contract with a major label. Being able to open another door in the annual advent calendar was a pretty huge deal.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:40 PM   #7
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There was quite a bit of hype. After Kurt's suicide, SP was the biggest band in rock. Mellon Collie was a smash hit and they were on top of the world. I recall being a bit nervous about the album because Jimmy was gone and Billy was speaking in interviews about how the album was more personal and stripped-down with less guitars. Once Ava Adore hit the radio I think a lot of people were turned off. It was a decent song, but it wasn't the SP song people wanted, especially after MCIS.


There was a pretty strong backlash once the album released. I remember it was suddenly uncool to be an SP fan and I got a lot of crap from people about being a fan. Things like, "they suck now".

I personally didn't care much for the album when it came out. It took a few years to really grow on me. I think mainly because MCIS was so rocking and epic and Adore was very mellow and simple.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:50 AM   #8
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There was a pretty strong backlash once the album released. I remember it was suddenly uncool to be an SP fan and I got a lot of crap from people about being a fan. Things like, "they suck now".
I remember this as well. I actually was bullied on the playground because of my Adore cassette haha. I was in the fifth grade at the time. Might have been the first time I was called "gay" as well.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:50 AM   #9
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I remember this as well. I actually was bullied on the playground because of my Adore cassette haha. I was in the fifth grade at the time. Might have been the first time I was called "gay" as well.
this really was the go-to term for liking anything strange (or at least, perceived as strange but stupid little kids) around this time, huh? I remember getting the first Gorillaz album and when everyone realized Clint Eastwood was sort of the only "rap song" on it save for Rock the House, i got the "what're you GAY?" shit immediately

needless to say, i gave up immediately on Gorillaz and music in general from that point forward. well done, kids!

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:20 PM   #10
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Not a good answer to "what was the hype like," but I remember getting the impression for some reason, from some rumor, that the album was coming out on a certain date. Probably like months before it actually did. My local record store had a board listing all the albums coming out that month, and I kept checking and not seeing Adore on there. But I showed up on the rumored day and asked if it had come in, and the guy behind the counter was like, "Oh, no, but I hear it's coming out next month, and it's a double album, one disc electronic and one acoustic," and all these other bullshit-sounding details, and then he called over to another employee to find out what they'd heard. I didn't know whether he was fucking with me or if he'd actually heard any of this, but either way it sounded fake as hell, and I walked away. I still wonder.

I mean, yes, I had the internet by then, but you have to understand that there were like two sites that collected Pumpkins news at the time, and Netphoria was one of them.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:58 PM   #11
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Not a good answer to "what was the hype like," but I remember getting the impression for some reason, from some rumor, that the album was coming out on a certain date. Probably like months before it actually did.
It probably had to do with the fact they actually toured Europe before the album was even out. Some schmo at your local store must have thought the album would be out by then. Case solved. You're welcome. You can move on with your life.

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:04 PM   #12
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That's a pretty crunchy setlist

 
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:25 PM   #13
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I remember it felt like Billy was almost trying to kill the hype in a way, not really but he kept saying how different it would be. Even before the shit with Jimmy happened he was saying their next album would be totally different.
When they first debuted Ava Adore (which was known as Eva Adora, fun fact), I'm 99% sure it was acoustic and it was just slightly before MP3s were widespread, so I got it on cassette.
When the songs were first debuted it was on KROQ I think, Ava Adore/To Sheila/Perfect, like it was some kind of leet leek even though I'm sure they had the OK from the label. Also, there was a behind the scenes Adore documentary that came out just before the album release on MTV.

Then I remember it getting some reviews about being boring ("abore" someone called it).

The tour was really great but they only played BWBW and either Stumbeline or Ruby from MCIS, which is not what most people wanted to hear.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:17 AM   #14
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The tour was really great but they only played BWBW and either Stumbeline or Ruby from MCIS, which is not what most people wanted to hear.
Billy had already started butchering the band’s legacy by then.

Remember seeing them live, they played an awful version of BWBW using a 7-string guitar. And yeah it was all Adore, an unreleased album nobody knew nothing about. Who does that?

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:30 PM   #15
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When the songs were first debuted it was on KROQ I think, Ava Adore/To Sheila/Perfect
I have such a clear memory of sitting in my dorm room, having gotten these L33T leaks, and hearing To Sheila for the first time. I don't think I've ever heard a song and thought, "This is going to be a favorite of mine forever now" on a first listen, before or since, but I was hooked on that one from the first line.

 
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Old 01-15-2022, 06:46 AM   #16
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I have such a clear memory of sitting in my dorm room, having gotten these L33T leaks, and hearing To Sheila for the first time. I don't think I've ever heard a song and thought, "This is going to be a favorite of mine forever now" on a first listen, before or since, but I was hooked on that one from the first line.
Ah To Shelia. That song never sounds bad, has never dated, and never disappoints. I think it sort of got lost among the bloat of Adore, but as a standalone it has to be a top 10 Pumpkins track.

I put it on the other day when I was playing the vinyl reissue, and it filled the room and was beautiful.

What we wouldn't give for a To Shelia now.

 
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:22 PM   #17
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The tour was really great but they only played BWBW and either Stumbeline or Ruby from MCIS, which is not what most people wanted to hear.
god damn that version of Stumbleine from the 98 tour was incredible

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:30 AM   #18
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i remember the Eva adore thing.... it's how billy pronounced it.
I also remember the talk of the double disk, one side acoustinc, one side electric. IIRC it was called Autumn Nocturn. no idea how that rumor started - probably billy's own mouth.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:45 AM   #19
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i remember the Eva adore thing.... it's how billy pronounced it.
I also remember the talk of the double disk, one side acoustinc, one side electric. IIRC it was called Autumn Nocturn. no idea how that rumor started - probably billy's own mouth.
I remember someone on IRC or AOL telling me the new album was going to be techno and then, after TEITBITE came out, really believing it would be. Meanwhile, my idea of techno was like Moby or Daft Punk and my pre-teen brain couldn't fuckin' believe it.

Ava Adore was such a weird choice as a single. Like the lyrics are obviously super abrasive and insulting to some extent (calling someone a whore) - especially back then. So here he's making this album which is much more quiet and contemplative and you have this song that is calling a woman a whore in the first two lines. It was really offputting to me. Like who plays that kind of shit for their friends? Was he trying to make it too cringe-y (from the forced/ironic misogyny) to be a hit? It feels like he thought he could fart on record for 70 minutes and it would be a hit so he pushed boundaries to dare the radio to still play it, which is great if you're doing it for an artistic reason, but I can't see how it was the case.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:22 AM   #20
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Ava Adore was such a weird choice as a single. Like the lyrics are obviously super abrasive and insulting to some extent (calling someone a whore) - especially back then. So here he's making this album which is much more quiet and contemplative and you have this song that is calling a woman a whore in the first two lines. It was really offputting to me
It's a pretty horrible lyric. I actually think it comes across a lot worse now, it's quite unpleasant

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:41 AM   #21
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“It's a pretty horrible lyric. I actually think it comes across a lot worse now, it's quite unpleasant”


 
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Old 01-30-2022, 02:48 AM   #22
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It feels like he thought he could fart on record for 70 minutes and it would be a hit so he pushed boundaries to dare the radio to still play it, which is great if you're doing it for an artistic reason, but I can't see how it was the case.
If Billy farted on record for 70 minutes today it would be full of vibrato and suck.

You know it, and I know it.

 
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Old 01-30-2022, 03:34 AM   #23
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I remember being super hyped to see them on that vh1 fashion show thing and they played crestfallen and thinking “why that song”, which I have no problem with on a normal day but it just was a weird song choice at a fashion show thing. And I think it confused people, a lot of people.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
i remember the Eva adore thing.... it's how billy pronounced it.
I also remember the talk of the double disk, one side acoustinc, one side electric. IIRC it was called Autumn Nocturn. no idea how that rumor started - probably billy's own mouth.
Yes I remember that, there was also the "arcane night music" quote.

It was always going to be different. Jimmy leaving meant it was never going to be the same SP. As stated above, I remember the build with Eye and then TEITBITE, it sounded like the future of the band - fast electronica / techno still with guitars.

Then as news and quotes were coming out, Billy had to deny it was an "acoustic" record. So something different was brewing.

Ava Adore when you think about what was to come, wasn't really that different. It just had a breakbeat and less distorted guitars, but it still had that twin guitar solo. But it was hyped up to be this massive left turn.

When the album came out, I think it suffered a bit from 90's CD bloat - it was just too long. It could've lost a good 15 minutes and still been a perfectly good album. It took me a long time to get into it, even though on the surface I really liked the sound. I was getting out of being "into" rock / grunge at that time, and electronic music really was the wave of the future.

It's failure was a strange one however. Radiohead didn't suffer from that fate when Kid A came out. Maybe the world was just moving on from SP by 1998, even if they had released another rock album, it would've been classed as "more of the same". They really couldn't win either way.

Thankfully what we're left with is a beautiful record. I just got the double vinyl, and it's probably the truest SP album to stand up to the vinyl experience.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:16 AM   #25
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I'm not sure what a better single would have been, especially considering that single followed the likes of BWBW and Zero

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:18 AM   #26
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I know the obvious answer is Perfect, but I think Ava Adore has more radio flash. Perfect is okay as the B single, like Thirty Three. There really isn't a great (radio) song on Adore.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:44 AM   #27
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I've been on an Adore kick lately in both listening and piecing the era together so this thread comes at a good time for me.

I've been writing out some rambling thoughts:

1994: With Kurt dead rock music had lost its leader. Billy was positioned to his place but he would need to pull out something massive with the next album.

1995: SP come out MCIS late into the year. It instantly filled the hole grunge music had been missing. Spawning multiple angsty hit rock songs.

1996: SP is the biggest rock band in the world.

I remember Billy saying things around this time that the next record would pick up where 1979 left off. I am pretty sure this is in a Guitar World interview.

Then the Jimmy incident happens.

About a month later there is some hype for Billy's work on the Ransom soundtrack. I remember watching the movie and not really hearing anything SP sounding at the time.

1997: I finally get the Ransom Soundtrack and Billy's songs have some cool moments but feels a little aimless.

Lost Highway is getting hyped. Another month goes by and we get the track Eye in Feb which is a hit. I was personally heavily affected by this track. I was envisioning the next album being more in nature with this song. I though Billy had finally nailed that sort of techno through real instruments sound he was chasing during MCIS.

Summer comes with the hype of Batman and Robin. We eventually get single with The End Is the Beginning Is the End. It’s another major hit song and carries the same techno adjacent sound of Eye. I am hyped now more than ever for the future of the band.


It is weird how this late 96 through summer 97 era was more about film soundtrack hype. I remember feeling that they would be ok without Jimmy based on these two complete songs.

I do not remember the song Christmastime during this period for some reason.

This is the era of first having access to the internet for me. It's weird how my pre-teen obsession with SP and the rise of internet culture are so intertwined. Early Adore era is when the band started to be that obsession rather than liking the radio songs. It went from a cultural/social awareness to an obsession around this time.

Writing this out made me remember how we used to collect soundtracks and singles back in the day.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:59 PM   #28
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About a month later there is some hype for Billy's work on the Ransom soundtrack. I remember watching the movie and not really hearing anything SP sounding at the time.

1997: I finally get the Ransom Soundtrack and Billy's songs have some cool moments but feels a little aimless.

I do not remember the song Christmastime during this period for some reason.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Ransom. I got both of these. Ransom made me almost worried, since they sounded very "techno" to me then and I was worried rock songs were completely over. Also, you had the TEITBITE remixes and 1979 remixes around this time which were very electronic as well.

I remember getting A Very Special Christmas 3 and, later on, Sweet Relief II (with Sad Peter Pan) at this little dingy record shop. I don't even remember anything else about the albums except that there was a terrible No Doubt song somewhere. Side note though, No Alternative is awesome as a whole.

Adore was definitely seen as Billy has gone weird. They tried to make another 1979 with the Perfect video and, I'm sorry, Billy, but you should never wear a cowboy hat. And he was also on Regis & Kathy Lee around this time.

It definitely felt like BC thought he failed with Adore so he went back on his "rock is dead" gimmick, but by then the 'failure' had affected him so profoundly that it was the majority of what he was thinking and therefore writing about. Thus songs like TEG and HMM.

 
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:31 PM   #29
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I do not remember the song Christmastime during this period for some reason.
Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one. Like, the first time I ever heard it was the McMurderson parody years after the fact. I don't recall even hearing it existed at the time.

 
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Old 01-14-2022, 05:02 AM   #30
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I think part of what killed SP and Adores momentum was the change in mainstream musical direction. Billy was totally betting on rock music being dead after grunge died off.

It's sort of wild how SP really capitalized on a mainstream movement (grunge) and then were killed off by the next one (Numetal).

Korn, System of a Down, Orgy, Kid Rock, Manson's Mechanical Animals and Rob Zombie all released major albums that to Corgan's credit had a sense of that techno/industrial feel but went full bore rock. Corgan's bet had not been correct in thinking the next wave of mainstream music would be softer/acoustic.

 
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