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Old 05-31-2023, 07:06 PM   #31
Joey Goldberg
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i don't think a hamfisted cultural/political statement was enough for a final nail on a coffin on a reunion project that had just started, lol

you gotta wait for at least the 2008 antics for that!

 
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Old 05-31-2023, 07:22 PM   #32
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[laughs in 1fatslug]

Things are a bit blurry but IIRC the album had leaked and the reunion was already the Bill&Jimm roadshow at that point. The two-three SP obsessed people in my circle were already out of their minds and then… fucking PI on the cover.

So yeah maybe second to last nail in the coffin? Tila Tequila knows the truth

 
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Old 05-31-2023, 07:36 PM   #33
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I definitely remember being turned on and confused by the Paris Hilton aesthetic.

No srsly fucking thang’s probably the last nail in the coffin for a lot of ppl
It was the casting of a dark cloud, for me. And truly painful, since it was the first SP album where I hated the music and the concept. Final nail on anything being better was Oceania, because it proved that even veering into the opposite direction of Zeitgeist wouldn't fix what I hated about the new "band."

 
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Old 05-31-2023, 07:40 PM   #34
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Zeitgeist will always be the worst to me, emotionally, for that reason. I was just getting into the band around the time of its release, and could NOT have been more excited to be present for an album and tour. And then I heard it, and things have been on a perfect downward arc ever since.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 06:05 AM   #35
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Actually quite a decent watch, quite revealing to see glimpses of his Covid opinions which he's kept pretty quiet about

Amazed he did an interview with someone smoking weed next to him!

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 06:07 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
Zeitgeist will always be the worst to me, emotionally, for that reason. I was just getting into the band around the time of its release, and could NOT have been more excited to be present for an album and tour. And then I heard it, and things have been on a perfect downward arc ever since.
Mad props for getting into the band during the Zeitgeist. I would never have done it. Actually wouldn't be around these parts to-day. Double mad props!

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 10:41 AM   #37
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I got into the band shortly after Zeitgeist and I gotta say, the disdain for it seemed pretty overwhelming at the time to the point where it was practically a "forbidden album"

then i actually god hold of it & realized most of the fans were full of shit

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 01:39 PM   #38
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The Zeitgeist aesthetic was weird. I'm not sure what he was going for with it all, and I'm not sure he even knows. The album cover seemed to imply a more liberal message around climate change and some of what Jimmy said in interviews at the time indicated that. But then Billy said some weird, xenophobic shit in an interview where he talked about how he stopped watching all news coverage because he was terrified "someone was going to come and blow us up," which, if he believed that, my guess is he was only watching "news" on one particular channel. But then, Bush was president at the time and the Grim Reaper president stuff seemed to be mocking him and his bloody war, so I'm not sure which way Billy was leaning back then. He initially supported Obama a couple years later but then went back on that and started sucking up to racist turds like Alex Jones.

Politics aside, including Paris Hilton was just weird. I don't really care about art for individual singles but it just seemed like Billy was trying to get a rise out of people. Also, did he ever explain why he pronounces the name of the song "TARAN-TOOLA"? What the fuck was that?

All that aside, I think it's an okay album but as I said in another thread, that's why it damaged the band. It needed to be a GREAT album to win over the skeptics. Some of us were just hoping for the return to the RAWK that Machina lacked and we got that... but then it sacrificed all the interesting artistry that Machina did get right. And the result was just kind of a middle-of-the-road, generic rock album. And I think it could have been better if he had included some of the more interesting songs he wrote back then as album tracks instead of ones that were only available via special editions or only heard during live shows. And some shit like "For God and Country" should have been left on the cutting room floor.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 03:47 PM   #39
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The fact that the album is called Zeitgeist and most of you motherfuckers don't understand why he used a picture of Paris Hilton is just... Christ Jesus save me

Also yeah Maher is a smug centrist who thinks he's being provocative or "saying what no one else is brave enough to say" (which, look around, Bill, you are nowhere near either extreme end of the discourse these days) but really just wants to ridicule anyone who wants anything about life to change. He's just a grumpy old man calling everything "woke" the same way Shapiro and company do—if he doesn't like it, it's "woke." He's an embarrassment.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 04:22 PM   #40
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Yeah, Maher doesn't register enough on my radar for me to hate him or anything, but he doesn't seem very smart to me. You know, the whole anti-vax, anti-GMO thing. Also, the "Republicans are dumb, but every left-wing issue that doesn't affect my specific demographic is also dumb, so trans stuff doesn't matter actually" thing is dumb.

But putting his boomer centrist takes aside, he's just not very funny, regardless of politics. Being smarmy and basing your entire routine on how intellectually superior you are to the blithering idiots is just boring, even if you're hitting the "correct" targets. Yeah, sure, bumpkin hicks are dumb, but nothing is more insufferable than a bunch of guys in suits standing together over champagne, laughing about how dumb the slack-jawed yokel hoi polloi are. Political comedy can be hard to do well, because there is wanting to be right and wanting to be funny, and sometimes the two might overlap. But many political comedians will always privilege wanting to be right.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 04:46 PM   #41
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Mad props for getting into the band during the Zeitgeist. I would never have done it. Actually wouldn't be around these parts to-day. Double mad props!

I didn't get into them during Zeitgeist, it was slightly before the comeback announcement. So Zeitgeist was the first "real-time" release I was a fan for. I got into them based on the Golden Era material, but it just happened to be around 2007.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 04:48 PM   #42
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Any time I see someone complaining about "coastal elites" laughing at the poor, real Americans, I picture Maher standing there with his suit and a snifter of brandy arching an eyebrow and saying "blue-collar workers are too stupid to be allowed to vote" with an ain't-I-a-stinker grin

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 04:50 PM   #43
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The fact that the album is called Zeitgeist and most of you motherfuckers don't understand why he used a picture of Paris Hilton is just... Christ Jesus save me
Or that people can understand a concept behind something and still think the execution is shit.

It really ain't that highbrow.

Billy’s concepts are like expecting a Stanley Kubrick film, but you get a Michael Bay movie instead.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 05:09 PM   #44
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Instead of David Fincher, you get M. Night Shyamalan.

Instead of Steven Spielberg, you get Roland Emmerich.

Instead of Christopher Nolan, you get Uwe Boll.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 05:12 PM   #45
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instead of Billy Corgan, you get 21st Century Willie Pat

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 05:15 PM   #46
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The fact that the album is called Zeitgeist and most of you motherfuckers don't understand why he used a picture of Paris Hilton is just... Christ Jesus save me
.
The promo art featured a bunch of superficial, on-the-nose incoherent American Idiot style images and the music had nothing to do with the “zeitgeist” whatsoever, but then Billy thinks if he writes something with 6 degrees separation from what he’s thinking about, that’s clever and in some way discernible to the listener. So maybe it is about something coherent in Billy’s head… but like ATUM it’s nowhere to be found in the lyrics or music.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 05:42 PM   #47
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If we're doing filmmaker comparisons Billy Corgan is closer to an Alejandro Iñarritu, thinks he's artsy and deep but all he does is empty allegory completely devoid of new and fresh ideas.

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 06:27 PM   #48
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Billy thinks if he writes something with 6 degrees separation from what he’s thinking about, that’s clever and in some way discernible to the listener.
this is the story of the band

 
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Old 06-01-2023, 06:31 PM   #49
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This is so shit, all they talk about is jerking off. Billy is pretty cringey as well, it's like he is trying to look cool to impress an older brother or kid. Then he goes on about being fat people when he's a fat shit.

Last edited by Brisk : 06-01-2023 at 06:38 PM.

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 12:58 AM   #50
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At least i.had the pression that bill is not dominating the interview.
Normally is he is trying to interrupt the interviewer, but this stoned guy gives a shit...and keeps talking.
Well.done maher.
Yeah bill you are fat too.....how can a vegan get soo fat?

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 03:38 AM   #51
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I definitely remember being turned off and confused by the Zeitgeist aesthetic. I mean, the album cover was OK, but the single covers, the flags, the reapers, Paris Hiltons... it was like Billy had some kind of political message but of course it was incoherent and most likely empty.
He was influenced by the success of American Idiot, I believe

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 03:52 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxUpDoc View Post
The promo art featured a bunch of superficial, on-the-nose incoherent American Idiot style images and the music had nothing to do with the “zeitgeist” whatsoever, but then Billy thinks if he writes something with 6 degrees separation from what he’s thinking about, that’s clever and in some way discernible to the listener. So maybe it is about something coherent in Billy’s head… but like ATUM it’s nowhere to be found in the lyrics or music.
So spot on

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 03:53 AM   #53
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He was influenced by the success of American Idiot, I believe
As if Billy Corgan could be a heart throb like Billie Joe

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 04:04 AM   #54
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Billy think zeitgeist was dark counter-culture/political content, and that's why it didn't succeed at the time.
"everyone told me not to put it out" ... "I went too far" IIRC are exact quotes

I don't remember ANYONE discussing anything Zeitgeist related as political. The only cultural discussion related to the album was how billy was now old and out of touch with "culture".

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 02:41 PM   #55
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What’s the most scathingly political lyric on Zeitgeist? All I can think of is ‘come on let us go’?

 
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Old 06-02-2023, 02:50 PM   #56
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i believe that would be the line "chicken in ma heart"

 
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