MSOTS is one of Billys best albums

msevrens · 07-07-2007, 05:03 AM

sorry, i dont know how u guys dont see it. Its up there with siamese dream and MCIS. MSOTS sounds more smashing pumpkins than TFE, machina I, machina II, and adore put together.

Seriously, ive never seen what people dont like about Zwan. Critics loved it. If the band stuck together they prolly woulda made it.

zebramask · 07-07-2007, 05:07 AM

darcyismybass · 07-07-2007, 05:10 AM

If they'd put out live Zwan instead of MSOTS, I'm sure BC's career would have changed a bit...

msevrens · 07-07-2007, 05:16 AM

i dunno man. Seriously I dont know why people hate on Zwan so much. When i first got into the smashing pumpkins, i heard zero and then basically went out bought all the albums. So my introduction to BC was everything at one (cept Machina II i didnt know about it) and I really liked that MSOTS, when i found out noone liked it i was surprised.

To this day noones really given me a legitimate reason why the album is bad.

eyeboogers · 07-07-2007, 05:26 AM

"Mary Star Of the Sea" is my favorite record of all time, it's pretty much a blend between "Mellon collie and the infinite sadness" and "Rubber Soul".

Boseph · 07-07-2007, 05:28 AM

Zwan = good

MSOTS = bad

melack · 07-07-2007, 06:23 AM

It's a good album, very focused and alive. Billy's got some of his best vocal performances on this album.

But I have to admit that it's easy to grow tired on. There's only four songs that really have stood the time for me and that I still listen to today.

Heartsong - Underrated song with a great acoustic guitar that makes it very comfortable to listen to.

Yeah! - The title sucks but the song is amazing, it never fails to make me feel happy and alive. The little guitar part in the chorus is one of the best ever.

Desire - A very emotional song that really affects me. One of the deepest songs on this album.

Come With Me - Without doubt the most catchy song Billy's ever written. Why wasn't this a single? I'm not afraid of happy, poppy music like some of you seems to be. So listen to this and put a smile on your face for once.

Bring the Zeit! · 07-07-2007, 06:26 AM

I don't know about best album, but it really is amazing. I never understood why no one liked it either.

sweter33 · 07-07-2007, 06:40 AM

it's not that noone likes it. on the contrary, as we can see in this thread

what I like about MSOTS is that it's natural and simple, upbeat and catchy. I never understood hating on religious stuff either... well I guess it's 14-year-olds wanting every song to be angsty and about "dark prince of death" or love being a suicide...
It's surely what Billy needed at that time and it turned out very well musically. "Honestly" is the most happy and energetic Billy's rock song ever. Lyric is awesome as well.
People stating that lyrics/record are gay have problems with their sexual identity.

areyougaffney? · 07-07-2007, 06:42 AM

fuck off. track 8 on siamese dream is geek usa, on MCIS it is Fuck you on MSOTS it is heartsong. Track 11 on SD is silverfuck on MCIS it is galapogos on MSOTS it is Yeah! and I'm damn sure that if you put baby lets rock up against something like mayonnaise or X.Y.U (basically put any 2 tracks from SD or MCIS here) and the difference in quality is laughable.

I'm a huge SP fan but Idon't think I will ever again listen to MSOTS in it's entirity....it's pretty shit

Bring the Zeit! · 07-07-2007, 06:53 AM

They were amazing live. I can't wait to see the Pumpkins live! If I fucking can anyway. July 16th is my b-day and I was gonna see them in SF. I go online the day they go on sale and they sold out in a matter of minutes. I WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!

sweter33 · 07-07-2007, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by areyougaffney?

fuck off. track 8 on siamese dream is geek usa, on MCIS it is Fuck you on MSOTS it is heartsong. Track 11 on SD is silverfuck on MCIS it is galapogos on MSOTS it is Yeah! and I'm damn sure that if you put baby lets rock up against something like mayonnaise or X.Y.U (basically put any 2 tracks from SD or MCIS here) and the difference in quality is laughable.

I'm a huge SP fan but Idon't think I will ever again listen to MSOTS in it's entirity....it's pretty shit

are you the one from that "Zeitgeist destruction" youtube video?

Bring the Zeit! · 07-07-2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweter33

are you the one from that "Zeitgeist destruction" youtube video?

That kid wouldn't know that much about classic Pumpkins. Also he didn't say "I don't give a fuck!'' or "Shee-it"!

smashingjj · 07-07-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeboogers

"Mary Star Of the Sea" is my favorite record of all time, it's pretty much a blend between "Mellon collie and the infinite sadness" and "Rubber Soul".

fantastic thread

You Said · 07-07-2007, 07:22 AM

Zwan was a mistake and should be forgotten.

areyougaffney? · 07-07-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweter33

are you the one from that "Zeitgeist destruction" youtube video?

yes, I am also in the patis hilton video, not paris..the other one. I made her scream zeitgeist rules!! as I brough her to climax

ltoolio · 07-07-2007, 08:56 AM

It's a period piece...it pretty well defines where he was at that point in his career/life.

Is it great? Some of the songs could be considered as such.

Is it bad? At least one song (Heartsong...it makes me cringe) could be considered bad.

All in all, though, it's a "nice" album. Catchy, fun, harmless & alive are all words that were used to describe it. And I think that they are right on.

What you don't hear, though is rocking, pissed off & angst filled being used to describe it. Which is fine. With the exception of Jesus/I and Spilled Milk (which granted wasn't on the album), it is a rather benign record.
I would never say I hate it, though.

Phoenix Down · 07-07-2007, 08:58 AM

who wants fun and harmless from Billy Corgan? Jesus Christ guys.

greedo · 07-07-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by areyougaffney?

fuck off. track 8 on siamese dream is geek usa, on MCIS it is Fuck you on MSOTS it is heartsong. Track 11 on SD is silverfuck on MCIS it is galapogos on MSOTS it is Yeah! and I'm damn sure that if you put baby lets rock up against something like mayonnaise or X.Y.U (basically put any 2 tracks from SD or MCIS here) and the difference in quality is laughable.

I'm a huge SP fan but Idon't think I will ever again listen to MSOTS in it's entirity....it's pretty shit

Wow, even for Netphoria this is an assinine post. Don't mistake your personal taste for the definitive truth.

People are allowed to have their own opinion. Silverfuck is crap song. One annoying riff played over and over again. To even compare it to Yeah! based on it's track number is stupid. Yeah! is a much better song in my opinion. Track one on MCIS - that boring instrumental; track 1 on MSOTS - Lyric (and it actually has words, not like that wordless instrumental!).

YOU CAN'T REFUTE SOMEBODY'S OPINION BY STATING YOUR OWN! Music is subjective. I think MSOTS is a better album than Siamese Dream, but that is my opinion not fact.

I really struggle to understand the mentality of some people in this forum.

greedo · 07-07-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by You Said

Zwan was a mistake and should be forgotten.

Well, what a wonderful mistake!

They were a great live band, and Billy wrote a ton of amazing songs for Zwan. It's a shame that many of those songs are only available in live versions with dodgy quality.

greedo · 07-07-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeboogers

"Mary Star Of the Sea" is my favorite record of all time, it's pretty much a blend between "Mellon collie and the infinite sadness" and "Rubber Soul".

How do you like the live unreleased stuff compared to the album?

I love the album, but I mostly listen to the live stuff - those unreleased songs are amazing, and I feel they made terrible song choices for the album. That said, it is a very cohesive album - they chose the lighter, catchier songs.

I suppose some of the earlier stuff was a little close to the Pumpkins sound and were retired.

greedo · 07-07-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boseph

Zwan = good

MSOTS = bad

Zwan = perfection
MSOTS = flawed perfection

discuss

areyougaffney? · 07-07-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greedo

Wow, even for Netphoria this is an assinine post. Don't mistake your personal taste for the definitive truth.

People are allowed to have their own opinion. Silverfuck is crap song. One annoying riff played over and over again. To even compare it to Yeah! based on it's track number is stupid. Yeah! is a much better song in my opinion. Track one on MCIS - that boring instrumental; track 1 on MSOTS - Lyric (and it actually has words, not like that wordless instrumental!).

YOU CAN'T REFUTE SOMEBODY'S OPINION BY STATING YOUR OWN! Music is subjective. I think MSOTS is a better album than Siamese Dream, but that is my opinion not fact.

I really struggle to understand the mentality of some people in this forum.

na seriously come on. People have opinions yeah I'm all for that, I understand why some like MCIS over SD and adore over machina etc but zwan on par with MCIS and SD is wrong. THAT IS A FACT.

People have different opinions on religion and what happens after life. They can't all be right, some opinions are just wrong...a bit like you're opinion.

Phoenix Down · 07-07-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greedo

I suppose some of the earlier stuff was a little close to the Pumpkins sound and were retired.

that's common knowledge, because billy admitted it.

ltoolio · 07-07-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Down

who wants fun and harmless from Billy Corgan? Jesus Christ guys.

My preference is angry, pissed off BC. But, a more reserved BC is what we got, and it wasn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

LazyLava · 07-07-2007, 09:25 AM

i would agree if spilled milk and w.p. made the record.

i still think its a great record

Shapan · 07-07-2007, 09:54 AM

wow comparing zwan to mcis...

wow.

sweetanthony · 07-07-2007, 10:21 AM

The only MISSTEP of the Djali Zwan/Zwan/Spun era is the MSOTS record (minus MSOTS the song). If you subtract all those "happy, harmless" songs and added all the great material they wrote during that era, Glorious, WP, FAWIUTB, Spilled Milk, etc.... shit, we probably wouldn't have the return of the Smashing Pumpkins.

I think Billy wanted Zwan to fail, so he put out that record, instead of he killer record he could have put out.

Phoenix Down · 07-07-2007, 10:31 AM

billy corgan is a very, very strange person

i_adore_adore · 07-07-2007, 10:36 AM

I like MSOTS. Really, I think it's a fun record with some good songs. Would I compare it to MCIS or SD? No way. They're nothing alike in my opinion. But I have no complaints.

And Paz can PLAY that bass!! have you guys heard her new band Entrance? Reminds me of great '70s bands.

07-07-2007, 05:03 AM	#1
msevrens Pledge Posts: 117	MSOTS is one of Billys best albums sorry, i dont know how u guys dont see it. Its up there with siamese dream and MCIS. MSOTS sounds more smashing pumpkins than TFE, machina I, machina II, and adore put together. Seriously, ive never seen what people dont like about Zwan. Critics loved it. If the band stuck together they prolly woulda made it.

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07-07-2007, 05:10 AM	#3
darcyismybass Apocalyptic Poster Location: makin movies, makin songs and fightin 'round the world Posts: 1,430	If they'd put out live Zwan instead of MSOTS, I'm sure BC's career would have changed a bit...

07-07-2007, 05:16 AM	#4
msevrens Pledge Posts: 117	i dunno man. Seriously I dont know why people hate on Zwan so much. When i first got into the smashing pumpkins, i heard zero and then basically went out bought all the albums. So my introduction to BC was everything at one (cept Machina II i didnt know about it) and I really liked that MSOTS, when i found out noone liked it i was surprised. To this day noones really given me a legitimate reason why the album is bad.

07-07-2007, 05:26 AM	#5
eyeboogers Demi-God Posts: 304	"Mary Star Of the Sea" is my favorite record of all time, it's pretty much a blend between "Mellon collie and the infinite sadness" and "Rubber Soul".

07-07-2007, 05:28 AM	#6
Boseph Ownz Location: no hills, please Posts: 689	Zwan = good MSOTS = bad

07-07-2007, 06:23 AM	#7
melack Oblivious Virgin Posts: 33	It's a good album, very focused and alive. Billy's got some of his best vocal performances on this album. But I have to admit that it's easy to grow tired on. There's only four songs that really have stood the time for me and that I still listen to today. Heartsong - Underrated song with a great acoustic guitar that makes it very comfortable to listen to. Yeah! - The title sucks but the song is amazing, it never fails to make me feel happy and alive. The little guitar part in the chorus is one of the best ever. Desire - A very emotional song that really affects me. One of the deepest songs on this album. Come With Me - Without doubt the most catchy song Billy's ever written. Why wasn't this a single? I'm not afraid of happy, poppy music like some of you seems to be. So listen to this and put a smile on your face for once.

07-07-2007, 06:26 AM	#8
Bring the Zeit! Pledge Posts: 162	I don't know about best album, but it really is amazing. I never understood why no one liked it either.

07-07-2007, 06:40 AM	#9
sweter33 Apocalyptic Poster Location: a point or extent in space Posts: 1,160	it's not that noone likes it. on the contrary, as we can see in this thread what I like about MSOTS is that it's natural and simple, upbeat and catchy. I never understood hating on religious stuff either... well I guess it's 14-year-olds wanting every song to be angsty and about "dark prince of death" or love being a suicide... It's surely what Billy needed at that time and it turned out very well musically. "Honestly" is the most happy and energetic Billy's rock song ever. Lyric is awesome as well. People stating that lyrics/record are gay have problems with their sexual identity.

07-07-2007, 06:42 AM	#10
areyougaffney? Demi-God Posts: 312	fuck off. track 8 on siamese dream is geek usa, on MCIS it is Fuck you on MSOTS it is heartsong. Track 11 on SD is silverfuck on MCIS it is galapogos on MSOTS it is Yeah! and I'm damn sure that if you put baby lets rock up against something like mayonnaise or X.Y.U (basically put any 2 tracks from SD or MCIS here) and the difference in quality is laughable. I'm a huge SP fan but Idon't think I will ever again listen to MSOTS in it's entirity....it's pretty shit

07-07-2007, 06:53 AM	#11
Bring the Zeit! Pledge Posts: 162	They were amazing live. I can't wait to see the Pumpkins live! If I fucking can anyway. July 16th is my b-day and I was gonna see them in SF. I go online the day they go on sale and they sold out in a matter of minutes. I WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!

07-07-2007, 07:22 AM	#15
You Said Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 1,678	Zwan was a mistake and should be forgotten.

07-07-2007, 05:07 AM	#2
zebramask Demi-God Posts: 392

07-07-2007, 08:56 AM	#17
ltoolio Pledge Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 130	It's a period piece...it pretty well defines where he was at that point in his career/life. Is it great? Some of the songs could be considered as such. Is it bad? At least one song (Heartsong...it makes me cringe) could be considered bad. All in all, though, it's a "nice" album. Catchy, fun, harmless & alive are all words that were used to describe it. And I think that they are right on. What you don't hear, though is rocking, pissed off & angst filled being used to describe it. Which is fine. With the exception of Jesus/I and Spilled Milk (which granted wasn't on the album), it is a rather benign record. I would never say I hate it, though.

07-07-2007, 08:58 AM	#18
Phoenix Down Apocalyptic Poster Location: Bayern München Posts: 3,303	who wants fun and harmless from Billy Corgan? Jesus Christ guys.

07-07-2007, 09:25 AM	#26
LazyLava Pledge Location: BEHOLD! the dreaded two headed feline mutant from Philadelphia! Posts: 69	i would agree if spilled milk and w.p. made the record. i still think its a great record

07-07-2007, 09:54 AM	#27
Shapan Socialphobic Location: intellectual hobo Posts: 11,794	wow comparing zwan to mcis... wow.

07-07-2007, 10:21 AM	#28
sweetanthony Ownz Location: under a rock, er, chicago Posts: 601	The only MISSTEP of the Djali Zwan/Zwan/Spun era is the MSOTS record (minus MSOTS the song). If you subtract all those "happy, harmless" songs and added all the great material they wrote during that era, Glorious, WP, FAWIUTB, Spilled Milk, etc.... shit, we probably wouldn't have the return of the Smashing Pumpkins. I think Billy wanted Zwan to fail, so he put out that record, instead of he killer record he could have put out.

07-07-2007, 10:31 AM	#29
Phoenix Down Apocalyptic Poster Location: Bayern München Posts: 3,303	billy corgan is a very, very strange person

07-07-2007, 10:36 AM	#30
i_adore_adore Apocalyptic Poster Location: IL Posts: 3,559	I like MSOTS. Really, I think it's a fun record with some good songs. Would I compare it to MCIS or SD? No way. They're nothing alike in my opinion. But I have no complaints. And Paz can PLAY that bass!! have you guys heard her new band Entrance? Reminds me of great '70s bands.