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Old 06-05-2023, 12:11 PM   #61
houseofglass11
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I still think Zwan broke up because Billy thought he and Paz had something going. All those press pics of her sitting in his lap would indicate such. That free spirit couldn’t be kept in his cage and he went with the nuclear option. Makes sense she was apparently the first one fired.

 
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Old 06-05-2023, 12:19 PM   #62
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Maybe everyone in Zwan, with Jimmy being the exception, was a dick

 
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Old 06-05-2023, 03:18 PM   #63
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this is it folks

also my favorite zwan memory is easily from the first show boot, where someone keeps yelling 'james on bass!!' upon seeing pajo loll

 
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Old 06-05-2023, 08:16 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
With their varied backgrounds, they should have ended up making some weird and cool shit. And Corgan had to sabotage it all and make a Christian pop-rock album because he's obsessed with "getting back into the mainstream" and "competing at the highest level" in an arena that no longer exists.
I've mentioned this before that because band relationships had become so degraded, that once again (magically) Billy and Jimmy felt the need to bear the weight on their own shoulders and bang out the album. I also blame his manager at the time telling him to just fill the album with his own songs because it's more money if he's doing all the work. That second part is mild speculation on my part.

Also always thought that "Christian rock" tag was misguided and myopic

 
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Old 06-05-2023, 09:06 PM   #65
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The album title and artwork certainly didn’t help with the Christian rock tag. Also ‘Lyric’ being a single, I mean, it does sound like Christian rock. Basically Zwan was just very uncool. He took some very cool indie musicians who did care about their cred and pedigree and had worked for that and had them join the un-coolest band ever.

 
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Old 06-05-2023, 09:29 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
I still think Zwan broke up because Billy thought he and Paz had something going. All those press pics of her sitting in his lap would indicate such. That free spirit couldn’t be kept in his cage and he went with the nuclear option. Makes sense she was apparently the first one fired.
That’s how I’ve always interpreted it. Coupled with his inability to collaborate in studio.

 
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Old 06-06-2023, 06:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
The album title and artwork certainly didn’t help with the Christian rock tag. Also ‘Lyric’ being a single, I mean, it does sound like Christian rock. Basically Zwan was just very uncool. He took some very cool indie musicians who did care about their cred and pedigree and had worked for that and had them join the un-coolest band ever.
The Zwan album was completely antithetical to the actual band that existed prior to that. The art didn't match. The song choice didn't match. It was a misfire for possible reasons stated above.

 
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Old 06-06-2023, 06:41 PM   #68
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It was indeed the biggest pissing away of indie groundswell possibly ever.

 
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Old 06-06-2023, 06:44 PM   #69
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As someone who has no real understanding of Zwan barring the album and the high school drama and such, what was so rad about the live stuff that made people think the record was such a let down? Just curious as I’ve never really done a Zwan deep dive. What are best tracks/recordings/etc.?

 
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Old 06-06-2023, 07:31 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by TheSultanOfCyr View Post
As someone who has no real understanding of Zwan barring the album and the high school drama and such, what was so rad about the live stuff that made people think the record was such a let down? Just curious as I’ve never really done a Zwan deep dive. What are best tracks/recordings/etc.?
this is a pretty good jump-off of

the record but the earlier you go you'll find the truth

https://archive.org/details/zwan2003...webamp=default

 
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Old 06-06-2023, 09:17 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TheSultanOfCyr View Post
As someone who has no real understanding of Zwan barring the album and the high school drama and such, what was so rad about the live stuff that made people think the record was such a let down? Just curious as I’ve never really done a Zwan deep dive. What are best tracks/recordings/etc.?
November 2001 True Poets tour:

https://archive.org/details/zwan2001-11-16.shn
This is the essential recording here. Their debut.

https://archive.org/details/zwan2001-11-21-Roth.shnf
I really enjoy this one as well. Sweeney uses a dirtier tone for some of the quieter songs like The Shining Path. The show sounds distinct despite the similar setlist. Definitely not a carbon copy.

December 2001 Djali Zwan tour:

https://archive.org/details/zwan2001-12-14b.shnf
If you only listen to one Djali show from this tour, this would be it, but check out these other two as well (between the three of them, you get all songs from all four gigs they played):

https://archive.org/details/zwan2001....quinto.flac16
https://archive.org/details/zwan2001...-quinto.flac16

April 2002 True Poets tour (Paz joins here):

https://archive.org/details/zwan2002-04-14.4060.flac16
Imho the best of the bunch.

https://archive.org/details/zwan2002-04-07.4060.flac16
https://archive.org/details/zwan2002-04-08.4060.flac16
Check these out for a couple of other songs like Signal This Strong, I Know My Time Is Coming, and Dust My Broom.

Jack Sweeney's Open Mic Nights at The Hideout

Lots of cool gems here from the period when they were in studio. These are not on the Live Music Archive, but I'm sure someone will share them if you're interested.

December 2002 warm-up gigs for MSOTS release:

https://archive.org/details/zwan2002-12-19.flacf
It was on this tour that we first listened to a a couple of the songs that ended up in the album (Declarations of Faith, Mary Star of the Sea)

January 2003 5-Night-Stand at the Metro for album release:

https://archive.org/details/zwan2003-01-23.quinto.shn
They were already starting to branch out from the album here, introducing songs like Friends as Lovers and Riverview.

Post-album release:

https://archive.org/details/zwan2003-02-08.flac16
https://archive.org/details/zwan2003....watson.flac16
Both essential. This is an FM recording of the Café de la Dense gig, which sounds best, but you can also get the rest of the songs here: https://archive.org/details/zwan2003-02-08.shn

 
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Old 06-07-2023, 01:22 AM   #72
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holy fucking shit, i've made like 3 threads about cafe de la danse and didn't know there was an FM copy!!

 
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Old 06-07-2023, 05:18 AM   #73
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An even better pre-FM source also exists! Sadly I only have a lossy copy, and the Internet Archive only has the 13 remaster of it: https://archive.org/details/zwan2003-02-08

I'd actually really appreciate it if anyone could share a lossless, pre-13, pre-FM copy.

 
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Old 06-07-2023, 07:49 AM   #74
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Zwan Live at Nuke Festival on 2003-06-13:
https://archive.org/details/zwan2003...flac16/02.flac

I think this was their last show. FM sourced with only Lyric being a bit weird at the beginning. Well worth a listen! A regular go-to.

 
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Old 06-07-2023, 07:25 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Rairun View Post
December 2001 Djali Zwan tour:

https://archive.org/details/zwan2001-12-14b.shnf
If you only listen to one Djali show from this tour, this would be it, but check out these other two as well (between the three of them, you get all songs from all four gigs they played):
I was at this show. something that now strikes me as odd was that there was a spot to stuff your winter coats under a stairwell for the show and then just pick grab them on your way out. total trust society.

 
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Old 06-08-2023, 06:01 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
I still think Zwan broke up because Billy thought he and Paz had something going. All those press pics of her sitting in his lap would indicate such. That free spirit couldn’t be kept in his cage and he went with the nuclear option. Makes sense she was apparently the first one fired.
Nah they broke up because Bill stole her coloring book

 
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Old 06-08-2023, 06:14 PM   #77
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Do you think Paz has plantar warts

 
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Old 06-08-2023, 07:41 PM   #78
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just to clarify for the cliff notes - david alleges that pajo was fired and then he was asked to play bass but didn't respond so then the band broke up

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 07:25 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by slunken View Post
just to clarify for the cliff notes - david alleges that pajo was fired and then he was asked to play bass but didn't respond so then the band broke up
Bill fired Paz
Bill asked Pajo to play bass again
Pajo didn't reply

I, for one, would have loved Pajo back on bass Skullfisher style.

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 08:36 AM   #80
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Billy and Jimmy starting a band immediately after the pumpkins disbanded was a bad idea. I think Billy only realised that when it was too late, contracts had already been signed and the band already had an "indie superband" status. As Billy said a little while ago, Zwan should have been kept as a side project, playing live concerts and nothing else.

I imagine it wasn't easy for the other members to work with a duo that had been playing together for over 10 years, and with such an intense relationship. There is no indication that Paz was fired. Tensions between Billy and Pajo were always very evident and I doubt that Billy would ask Pajo to continue on bass or that his refusal would be the reason to end the band.

The relationship between them deteriorated over time and there was nothing that could keep them together any longer as the bound within the Pumpkins, which kept them together despite all the trouble. Billy's reaction to that was to quit and start working on a solo album.

Last edited by Forgotten Child : 06-09-2023 at 10:22 AM.

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 10:03 AM   #81
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The indie groundswell was undeniable.

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 11:46 AM   #82
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david alleges that pajo was fired
did Matt have anything to say about Sweeney?

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 04:37 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funbags View Post
Bill fired Paz
Bill asked Pajo to play bass again
Pajo didn't reply

I, for one, would have loved Pajo back on bass Skullfisher style.
Oh shit, thanks for cleaning that up for me yea. Yea I meant that PAZ was fired, and then Pajo was asked....

What funbags said

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 04:37 PM   #84
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did Matt have anything to say about Sweeney?
HONEST MISTAKE

 
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Old 06-09-2023, 04:39 PM   #85
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Obviously I can't handle all of these exotic foreign names they've got me tongue-tied

(this is an example of satire)

 
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Old 06-13-2023, 07:49 AM   #86
Funbags
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rairun View Post
An even better pre-FM source also exists! Sadly I only have a lossy copy, and the Internet Archive only has the 13 remaster of it: https://archive.org/details/zwan2003-02-08

I'd actually really appreciate it if anyone could share a lossless, pre-13, pre-FM copy.
https://archive.org/details/zwan2003.../02-+Yeah.flac

I just realized this is what Billy sings in Yeah:

Everyone is not in Zwan
Everyone's the same

 
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Old 06-13-2023, 08:17 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funbags View Post
https://archive.org/details/zwan2003.../02-+Yeah.flac

I just realized this is what Billy sings in Yeah:

Everyone is not in Zwan
Everyone's the same
The theory going around was that the band's name was a pun on "As One" .

 
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Old 07-19-2023, 10:58 PM   #88
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Did anyone catch the part where he outs Billy as a peeping tom?

 
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Old 07-19-2023, 11:01 PM   #89
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I didn't see it mentioned. He did a series on a podcast called Discograffiti and on part 2 he talks about Zwan.

The funniest part to me was when he said that he and Matt would write these nice interplaying guitar parts and Billy would just drown it out with barre chords.

Also the band dissolved because Paz was fired. Not sure if that was new news or not

If this has been discussed well who cares just dismiss
This is one of the saddest things ever, still. I remember the guitar interplay with Pajo and Sweeney being so interesting on the early live recordings and then when the album came out, it just sounded like a Corgan wall of shit guitars all over it. Not even a good wall of shit like Siamese Dream. Just garbage.

Unfortunately, MSTOS was probably the first major indicator of Billy starting to truly lose the plot. And it's been mostly all downhill since....

 
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Old 07-20-2023, 03:25 AM   #90
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Nah, MSOTS is actually good. And better than Machina.

 
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