Now that Oceania has been out for ten years…

[New Art Rioter]

I liked the BC / Monte interview where Monte's phone goes off and Corgan instantly gives him the death stare

[NovaFritz]

Originally Posted by T&T

save yourself the trouble.

I couldn't resist listening, briefly, to Celestials and Pale Horse because I couldn't remember them at all. Still disappointing, but not as Zwan as I remember.

"On the day that you were born
They built an empire off a scream
I can't explain
Endlessly they'll set you free
Give you reason to believe
This empty place
I may seem unafraid
And I may seem unashamed
But I will be special k"

Special K? Why is he singing about this?

[Ram27]

i still can't tell if it's meant to be the cereal [a la 'butter my toast'] or drug

i'm not sure which is lamer. neither make sense

[Joey Goldberg]

billy's still making veiled threats @ brian molko

[Joey Goldberg]

molko was singing about the drug

billy's k is for "kick u in the arse"

[Shadaloo]

Originally Posted by NovaFritz

I couldn't resist listening, briefly, to Celestials and Pale Horse because I couldn't remember them at all. Still disappointing, but not as Zwan as I remember.

"On the day that you were born
They built an empire off a scream
I can't explain
Endlessly they'll set you free
Give you reason to believe
This empty place
I may seem unafraid
And I may seem unashamed
But I will be special k"

Special K? Why is he singing about this?

You take Ketamine for depression. He's just going "I seem bold and invincible and stable and unshakeable but I'm basically a walking mass of sedatives and I'm falling apart."

One of the easier lyrics to interpret off Oceania I'd say but it doesn't help that he says "I will be" rather than something that alludes a bit more directly to use/abuse.

[MyOneAndOnly]

This was supposedly a break-up album, mostly about getting dumped by Jessica. But there's a song about his mom's mental illness, and one about Mark dying too.

The tracks I think that are OK are:

The Celestials
Violet Rays
My Love Is Winter
Pinwheels
Oceania
Glissandra
Inkless

I think if you combine those with a handful of TGBK tracks you get an OK solo record:

Song for a Son
Owata
Cottonwood symphony

[Joey Goldberg]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

This was supposedly a break-up album, mostly about getting dumped by Jessica. But there's a song about his mom's mental illness, and one about Mark dying too.

on a surface level this should have made for an amazing album, considering what Corgan did with similarly heavy personal topics in the past

but when I listen I get none of this, the bad lyrics stand out blatantly and everything else just sort of runs on, while the overall production and sound of everything is just utterly bland and unappealing

ultimately the best thing I can say about Oceania in 2022 is that it really makes Zeitgeist look better

[NovaFritz]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

This was supposedly a break-up album, mostly about getting dumped by Jessica. But there's a song about his mom's mental illness, and one about Mark dying too.

The tracks I think that are OK are:

The Celestials
Violet Rays
My Love Is Winter
Pinwheels
Oceania
Glissandra
Inkless

I think if you combine those with a handful of TGBK tracks you get an OK solo record:

Song for a Son
Owata
Cottonwood symphony

This still looks entirely unlistenable.

[eviltimeban]

Pale Horse is decent. The production is good, I like those reverse timpani drums towards the end.

[VoxUpDoc]

Pale Horse is decent for like the 8 seconds it takes the hook to loop.

[killtrocity]

Originally Posted by incubator

MTAE is the peak of WPC “straightforward” lyrics, including the gem :

Never been kissed by a girl like you
Ooh ooh scooby doo

oooh ooh Scooby Doo
I've got some crack for you-oooh

[killtrocity]

Originally Posted by Ram27

i'm not sure which is lamer. neither make sense

you somehow managed to summarize both the spirit of the age and also every SP2 lyric in this concise little package

[Morlock]

It's the album that makes it clear he should have kept Nicole, while Mike regularily sinks Oceania. No one would complain about Quasar if it had Superchrist style Jimmy.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

ultimately the best thing I can say about Oceania in 2022 is that it really makes Zeitgeist look better

This is true!

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Morlock

It's the album that makes it clear he should have kept Nicole, while Mike regularily sinks Oceania. No one would complain about Quasar if it had Superchrist style Jimmy.

Quasar is a bad song. Like much of Zeitgeist several songs on this album are just a series of riffs taken way too far.

That's been Bill's problem since he broke up Zwan. His attempts to make loud fuzzy rock songs lacks both the meaningful lyrics he used to be able to write, and the complexity and subtlety in the guitar parts that was part of the songs... back when James was in the band.

Freak, Quasar, Penopticon, Glow... most of Zeitgeist... all ham fisted lazy.. like he's trying over and over to make a great SP anthem but lacks the ability to care enough about it to make it sound or feel good.

[MyOneAndOnly]

I still think he fired Nicole because the fan base liked her. She and Mike were both available on social media back then, and they interacted quite a bit with fans. They both went out after the Oceania Cruise in Chicago to hang out with fans. She had a life and a partner outside of SP.

It had nothing to do with her playing. Unlike mike her playing fit easily into the SP sound. She is pic player, knows how to play D'arcy's parts well, and can sing rather well too. I think her playing fit better than Melissa's or Ginger's did.

The only women around Billy then and today who don't get shut out or fired are the ones that follow him like he's a cult leader. Linda Strawberry is the perfect example of the type of sycophant that Bill keeps in his orbit.

In a way I'm glad Nicole is gone from SP, cause bill continued to become a worse and worse angry bigot and I don't know how any queer woman could have rationalized having to work with him by the time he started going on the Alex Jones show.

[T&T]

Billy fired Nicole because of her sexual orientation. I thought this was known. obviously it's all with an NDA while nicole calls it 'good riddance'

[vitaldust]

False. She had another band that clearly interfered with SP business.

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by killtrocity

you somehow managed to summarize both the spirit of the age and also every SP2 lyric in this concise little package

oh boy

haven't you had enough of all this grimdark?

[ninsp]

I kind of love it. It needs Jimmy. Quasar is not good though. “Maaaaaahk riideee ahnnn”

[T&T]

Originally Posted by vitaldust

False. She had another band that clearly interfered with SP business.

false.

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly

This was supposedly a break-up album, mostly about getting dumped by Jessica. But there's a song about his mom's mental illness, and one about Mark dying too.

and then there's chimera which is clearly about nursery crimes, twins that spark the charts, sin, and the unimpeachable fact that his love is, and will remain, forever strange, i.e., criminal, i.e., big willie's fantasy of molesting both veronicas when they were babies

[Spaceboy88]

Originally Posted by T&T

Billy fired Nicole because of her sexual orientation. I thought this was known. obviously it's all with an NDA while nicole calls it 'good riddance'

Where are you getting this from? Unless this was his way of punishing lesbians after Jessica broke up with him and became a lesbian, it sounds like total bullshit.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by T&T

Billy fired Nicole because of her sexual orientation. I thought this was known. obviously it's all with an NDA while nicole calls it 'good riddance'

I doubt that, because she was an out lesbian before he hired her. He is a homophobe, though. So I'm sure being gay just made it easier for him to summarily fire her when he got angry at the world for not buying 10 million copies of Oceania.

[MyOneAndOnly]

What bill has always wanted since he and James started jamming to a drum machine was to have friends.... 33 years later he has no friends, just employees

[TheAlter]

Billy fired Nicole because of her sexual orientation. I thought this was known. obviously it's all with an NDA while nicole calls it 'good riddance'

It's all under NDA but of course some schmo on a message board knows all about it.

Eat Sax

[Spaceboy88]

Where is this "Billy is a homophobe" nonsense coming from?

[T&T]

Originally Posted by Spaceboy88

Where is this "Billy is a homophobe" nonsense coming from?

it comes from the "billy is a transphobe" line of thought.

[Spaceboy88]

Originally Posted by T&T

it comes from the "billy is a transphobe" line of thought.

That whole transphobic shit it ridiculous. His comments calling Devi an "ugly pig" and "she/he" were from what, 2011? I think it's fair to say that the world was very different then. The idea of identifiable pronouns were so far from being mainstream then that saying he's transphobic because of THAT is a stretch.

He's just a fucking prick that's annoying to work with. Why can't we just leave it at that? There's no credible evidence or even hearsay that he's homophobic. If he was so transphobic/homophobic, would he wear any of those stupid kimonos on stage?