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-   Pumpkins Archive (http://forums.netphoria.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Gish or Zeitgeist? (http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=157713)

runnersdialzero 03-14-2008 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo (Post 3199864)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Gish is just amateurish compared to everything Billy has done since. His vocals sound bored (even more so than on Zeitgeist), the riffs are bland, the lyrics are uninteresting, and the production is lacklustre.

Machina sounds more like SD, MCIS, Adore, and Zeitgeist than Gish by a long shot.

Even with the band being as diverse as they are, Gish sounds like another band entirely, while Zeitgeist and Adore just sound like the same band in a different mood (i.e. era, I suppose).

I like Marilyn Manson's Mechanical Animals album (which Billy worked on), but I can't stand Linkin Park.
ya huh

r0cket 03-14-2008 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maoi (Post 3199865)
the 3rd chick over has a man face

kingflupps 03-14-2008 06:12 AM
For me its Zeitgeist but only just, I agree with the 'hollow core' idea with Gish but that compares with the vocal weakness on Zeitgeist. I was initially dissappointed with Zeitgeist but when I heard it live I fell in love with it. Death From Above, Bleeding The Orchid and Starz are all tracks that really blew me away at the gigs that initially dissapointed on the record. Obviously Tarantula is a classic! After the live shows in 2007-08 I really started getting into the album so maybe if I get to see them do some Gish stuff live the same will happen. I've seen the Pumpkins 4 times since the 2000 tour and never heard any Gish apart from Siva. Fingers crossed this 'gish era' thing happens.

MCIS=SD>Adore>Machina=Zeitgeist>Machina2=PI>Gish

Luke de Spa 03-14-2008 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davin (Post 3199130)
gish is my favorite pumpkins record.

its also my favorite record of all time, by any band ever. its my "desert island" record...and my "sitting on death row" record.

the music, the lyrics, the song-writing...its the "spirit of the time" for me, with emotional and personal connections galore.
yeah how about those lyrics.

jesus christ

MeAndMyLlama 03-14-2008 08:08 AM
yeah anyone who is voting for zeitgeist go back and listen to it in 17 years. wont age half as well. gish >>>>>>>>>> zeitgeist

Kahlo 03-14-2008 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete (Post 3199146)
Crush, snail, suffer- never even began to do anything for me. Just a kind of hollow core to the album at tracks 5 6 7. Hence I voted Zeitgeist.
Pete just made me die inside a little bit.

pete 03-14-2008 08:36 AM
I always give them another chance it seems...I put those 3 tracks on, and I suddenly realise I was meant to be listening to the music as soon as tristessa kicks in.

New Art Rioter 03-14-2008 08:56 AM
How can anyone not like Snail?! Or Crush or Suffer. That final 3/4 build up in Snail into the last solo and Jimmy's crazy drumming, that's fucking gold right there.

xezton 03-14-2008 09:27 AM
I picked Gish because I like the solos. The solos in that album, and SD, are probably my favorite guitar solos ever.

As an album in general, I think the two are fairly equal. So kill me.


Since other people did this, I guess I will:

Machina = Adore > MCIS > SD > TFE > Gish = Zeitgeist > Pisces Iscariot > MSOTS > Machina II

redbreegull 03-14-2008 12:40 PM
I still don't understand this, everything about Zeitgeist is inferior to Gish. The most appealing song on Zeitgeist (which for me is United States) is about 1/10 as creative as my least favorite on Gish, which is Suffer.

Eulogy 03-14-2008 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maoi (Post 3199625)
man i would not rank machina II or machina I over Gish, but I see that opinion a lot. I think thats the main diverging point among the fans who got into SP early 90s and then those who got into them post adore.
yeah...i got into them with machina, essentially. i had always liked them but i was young and into other things until i got heavily into machina. and i wouldn't immediately rate gish higher than machina. it's a really tough call because i think they're so vastly different that it's hard to compare them. i will say that there is nothing as "good" as SIYL or AOI on Gish. but there's nothing as mediocre as CTOM or BSBT on Gish.

Eulogy 03-14-2008 02:12 PM
actually scratch that, Bury Me is in the same league as SIYL and AOI

Eulogy 03-14-2008 02:13 PM
hell maybe even Rhino. geh. and Snail too. maybe i am one and siva

alright nevermind i don't know what i'm talking about.

Eulogy 03-14-2008 02:15 PM
they're both clearly better than zeitgeist though. and i like zeitgeist a lot.

redhawk 03-14-2008 02:29 PM
SD>Gish
Zeitgeist>SD
Gish>Zeitgeist

smashingjj 03-14-2008 02:41 PM
FUCK

sherm 03-14-2008 03:02 PM
snail is awesome clearly. the guitar on that album is the shat. i also really dig much of the mashed potatoes/reel time work (egg, moleasskiss,east, c'mon, wave song, etc.)

PI>SD=MCIS/TAFH>Gish>Machina II>Adore>MSOTS>Machina

Very little seperation though. Its all amazing in its on way. Typically non-album or b-side material is more enjoyable though for me.

Andy / 03-14-2008 05:59 PM
re: repeated text posts that take up 1,065,565,645 lines of the page

please stop. Remember, the rule on this particular part of the board is not to make threads unreadable and, while not exactly fucking the thread up, it sure does make it shitty to read.

pale blue eyes 03-14-2008 06:28 PM
Gish isn't perfect, but it's got heart. Some umph. Energy, whatever you want to call it. Within the best moments in Gish are exactly what is missing throughout all of Zeitgeist.

greedo 03-14-2008 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull (Post 3200229)
I still don't understand this, everything about Zeitgeist is inferior to Gish. The most appealing song on Zeitgeist (which for me is United States) is about 1/10 as creative as my least favorite on Gish, which is Suffer.
That depends on your definition of 'creative' vs 'wanky'.

On Gish Billy is trying so hard to be cool/creative/unique, but it comes across (to me at least) as affected. Zeitgeist comes across to me as Billy and Jimmy doing what they want to do with no concern for whether the audience is there or not. Much more 'honest', and that translates in the music to my ears.

Let's face it, they knew they could have created a more successful (both critically and in sales) album if they had wanted to.

That's not so say Zeitgeist is up there with MCIS or Machina.

stumpycat 03-15-2008 12:56 AM
There specifically seems to be very little love for a song like Suffer. Why is this? It's such a moody and atmospheric song, and the recorder solo really works well to take the mood to the next level in a pleasantly unexpected but perfectly fitting manner.

smashingjj 03-15-2008 07:53 AM
i love suffer

Gish08 03-15-2008 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brothergoddard (Post 3199087)
Gish- tracks 5-10 are hardly amazing
Bullshit.

redbreegull 03-15-2008 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo (Post 3200577)

Let's face it, they knew they could have created a more successful (both critically and in sales) album if they had wanted to.

That's not so say Zeitgeist is up there with MCIS or Machina.
Are you serious? Zeitgeist was pretty much written to cater directly to the rock charts. It is by far the most "mainstream" sounding Pumpkins record.

And Gish is about a hundred times better than machina.

cork_soaker 03-15-2008 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_adore_adore (Post 3199115)
NUH-UUUUUUUUH! :D



It is really hard to say which SP albums are "better" than which, because they really are all very different. It all comes down to personal taste.

My friends make fun of me and ask me all the time, "Are the Pumpkins the only band you listen to?" (they're not, for the record...) But really, they've been so stylistically diverse that I feel like I can put a Pumpkins album on no matter what mood I'm in. I can't say that about a lot of bands. There are definitely days that I'd rather listen to SD than Gish, but overall I find myself enjoying Gish more.



Now see, I've never really been crazy about Today. It was one of the first songs I heard by the Pumpkins (I downloaded a bunch of random tunes when I first got into them), and even before I knew it was "uncool" to love "Today," I didn't really like it. I didn't DISLIKE it, but it never did much for me.

different strokes for different folks.
but how do you feel about adore?

themadcaplaughs 03-15-2008 03:55 PM
Quote:
There specifically seems to be very little love for a song like Suffer. Why is this? It's such a moody and atmospheric song, and the recorder solo really works well to take the mood to the next level in a pleasantly unexpected but perfectly fitting manner.
Forgot about that aspect of "Suffer." That recorder solo kind of reminds me of the violin part in Superchrist in terms of "did I jsut hear that?"

As for Gish, whatever mediocrity liesi n tracks 4-7, I Am One, Siva, Rhinoceros, and Window Paine all make up for it.

davin 03-15-2008 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke de Spa (Post 3199954)
yeah how about those lyrics.

jesus christ
:Stupid:

davin 03-15-2008 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Art Rioter (Post 3200009)
How can anyone not like Snail?! Or Crush or Suffer. That final 3/4 build up in Snail into the last solo and Jimmy's crazy drumming, that's fucking gold right there.
thats what i'm saying... :erm:

hnibos 03-15-2008 06:52 PM
this is really a litmus test to see if youre retarded


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