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-   -   Guitar Playing and gear thread (http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=181491)

crabshack 03-13-2016 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern (Post 4251589)
My buddy Paul kinda messing around. He played in Act IV once with Analogue. I needed a soundcheck one day for this Q2HD handy-video recorder from Zcom. Very nice little recorder with an amazing mic. For open air recordings, nothing beats it for the price.




*Breaks into the same lick every single time after every pause*

The Omega Concern 03-13-2016 02:02 AM

DUDE...its a soundcheck. He'd been working on that riff at the time and since I was filming he wanted to flush it out in various modes. I posted it to emphasize this thing:



crabshack 03-13-2016 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern (Post 4251585)
ewwww...Peavey?


The Omega Concern 03-13-2016 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabshack (Post 4251601)
Dogging Peavey is such an outdated tactic from the era of 'not fender or marshall' line of thinking.


It depends on what you're going for, but the proof is in the pudding. When they tried to expand their market share with a classic series a couple years back, they immediately dropped in price 30% within months. Nobody was going to buy a Peavey for 2 grand when you could get any number of much better amps for that price.

crabshack 03-13-2016 02:17 AM

Peavey has been favored by country musicians since the 70s. It might not be steroid rock but it's pretty stupid to dismiss the line.

crabshack 03-13-2016 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern (Post 4251613)
It depends on what you're going for, but the proof is in the pudding. When they tried to expand their market share with a classic series a couple years back, they immediately dropped in price 30% within months. Nobody was going to buy a Peavey for 2 grand when you could get any number of much better amps for that price.

Good for any brand not bending to contemporary "standards"

redbreegull 03-13-2016 03:51 AM

yeah I play a lot of classic rock/country/folk type stuff so I thought the Peavey would be good. It's kind of brash sounding though and I have a lot of trouble getting it to cut through in a full band setting. I think I will sell it eventually and pick up a small Fender or something, there's just no reason I need a huge heavy amp anymore. I took it to my friend's apartment and almost died trying to get it through the lobby to the elevator

Elphenor 03-13-2016 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4251594)
Well it depends on the solo and what scale you wanna use, I suppose. A large chunk of rock and pop solos are built off the minor pentatonic scale, so a lot of people just kinda learn those patterns. If you want to build solos off of other scales, I suppose you'd learn those ones.

It's hard for me to memorize scale shapes, and sometimes I'll have them all down only to forget them again after a while of not playing. I mostly just play in modes of the pentatonic and major scales, but I've been planning on branching out to modes of the harmonic minor (similar to the natural minor, but with a sharpened 7th... the parallel major would have a sharpened fifth in comparison to the regular major scale), and then some cool exotic scales. I like the sound of when I screw around in exotic scales, but I haven't committed any of them to memory because I don't want to confuse myself while I'm still trying to memorize the basics.

Well I mean I figured you'd have to switch between a bunch of scales or something when really most of the time you don't, and even an exotic scale pattern isn't that difficult to memorize it's more about learning what to do within that scale

Elphenor 03-13-2016 09:14 AM

I remember I learned the most prominent scale for Flamenco but it would take years to learn to play it properly, just knowing the notes isn't what makes it sound good

buzzard 03-13-2016 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4251594)
That's awful. I've never tried any of their pedals because I always stick to cheap stuff but a lot of them look good.

I believe we had already discussed this some years ago, but I do have the Semaphore and have always enjoyed it. Even without dialing in a tremelo effect, I've liked having it somewhere along the chain for a boost and to push through a sort of clarity when it's been preceded by a bunch of other pedals that have taken little chips out of the tone.

It was originally purchased almost purely for a love of the following song, though I'm actually not aware of whether the band used that specific pedal.


soniclovenoize 03-22-2016 01:48 PM

Ooops I seemed to have gotten a new toy today.


teh b0lly!!1 03-22-2016 08:24 PM

looks p cool!

slunken 03-25-2016 09:08 AM

We're a jeans band, dammit!

redbreegull 03-25-2016 03:12 PM

those amps are too science for my tastes

he/she/it 03-25-2016 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4251515)
I know nothing when it comes to guitar quality and sound. I just buy cheap used shit from Craigslist and as long as it isn't a suspicious $40 "First Act" or "Crescent" guitar, I'll take it.

The reliable tone-building components in Billy's setups are EQ, compression, and boost / overdrive into an amp's own clean or high-gain sound.



I think that Billy's basic MCIS sound is this:

For cleans:

EQ -> maybe added clean boost pedal -> mild compression and additional boost from 3630 compressor -> clean channel JMP-1 -> (effects loop) sometimes with a quiet delay effect -> Strategy 500.

Billy's clean tones throughout SP don't come without using an EQ to finely raise or lower particular aspects of the whole sound. Amp EQ settings are usually pretty blunt, and I would use an amp's EQ to get generally as close to a decent sound as they can, and then really carve a good tone out using an EQ pedal or rack unit, starting with the high frequencies, and working towards the low end, moving each next slider to its max and min range, to hear what aspect that slider is contributing to the sound, and then finding its optimal placement.

There also could be an additional clean boost pedal after the EQ and before the Alesis 3630.



For distortion:

EQ -> MXR Distortion II -> mild compression and boost from Alesis 3630 compressor -> JMP-1 -> Strategy 500

The compression could also come before the DII, not sure.

I'm guessing on the MXR Distortion II, but that pedal has a distinct sound to it, and that's what it sounds to me is being used on MCIS, being run into high-gain from the JMP-1's distortion channels - and billy did use one on Siamese Dream for at least leads. I think the MXR Distortion II might almost be to MCIS what the Big Muff is to Siamese Dream.



Bullet With Butterfly Wings:
https://youtu.be/8-r-V0uK4u0
The intro riff sounds distinctly like an MXR Distortion II to me, for a guess I'd say possibly going EQ -> MXR Distortion II -> Alesis 3630 -> clean 2 channel of the JMP-1



MCIS demo Millieu:
https://youtu.be/Kyk8c0ybHgc

This sound is 2nd pickup selector placement on a Blue/Silver/Red Lace Sensor strat, going into EQ, into Alesis 3630 for boost and mild compression, into the second of the clean channels on the JMP-1. Having an EQ in the effects chain is essential to get this sound, rather than something that is murky, muffled, and dull by comparison.


Mild compression is important for Billy's plucky clean guitar sounds. Having no compression at all is often just unpleasant, making the apex of guitar notes thin, and makes string bends sort of whiny-sounding during high-gain leads. Though adding too much compression flattens the signal too much and takes away all the pristine chime-iness.

Some pedals, like the BOSS CS-3 squash the sound too much to get that kind of well-defined tone - though Billy has used a CS-3 compressor, it generally is an overly-squashy, loud noise compressor.

It sounds to me like the BOSS CS-3 is being used on the lead guitar in this MCIS night-time version demo from the 2012 MCIS reissue:
https://youtu.be/hp6NIjg7Kjg

I would not recommend a BOSS CS-3 for general compression needs, due to its excessive tone-squashing, and high noise level.

teh b0lly!!1 03-25-2016 10:22 PM

this is great


slunken 03-25-2016 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by he/she/it (Post 4254004)
The reliable tone-building components in Billy's setups are EQ, compression, and boost / overdrive into an amp's own clean or high-gain sound.



I think that Billy's basic MCIS sound is this:

For cleans:

EQ -> maybe added clean boost pedal -> mild compression and additional boost from 3630 compressor -> clean channel JMP-1 -> (effects loop) sometimes with a quiet delay effect -> Strategy 500.

Billy's clean tones throughout SP don't come without using an EQ to finely raise or lower particular aspects of the whole sound. Amp EQ settings are usually pretty blunt, and I would use an amp's EQ to get generally as close to a decent sound as they can, and then really carve a good tone out using an EQ pedal or rack unit, starting with the high frequencies, and working towards the low end, moving each next slider to its max and min range, to hear what aspect that slider is contributing to the sound, and then finding its optimal placement.

There also could be an additional clean boost pedal after the EQ and before the Alesis 3630.



For distortion:

EQ -> MXR Distortion II -> mild compression and boost from Alesis 3630 compressor -> JMP-1 -> Strategy 500

The compression could also come before the DII, not sure.

I'm guessing on the MXR Distortion II, but that pedal has a distinct sound to it, and that's what it sounds to me is being used on MCIS, being run into high-gain from the JMP-1's distortion channels - and billy did use one on Siamese Dream for at least leads. I think the MXR Distortion II might almost be to MCIS what the Big Muff is to Siamese Dream.



Bullet With Butterfly Wings:
https://youtu.be/8-r-V0uK4u0
The intro riff sounds distinctly like an MXR Distortion II to me, for a guess I'd say possibly going EQ -> MXR Distortion II -> Alesis 3630 -> clean 2 channel of the JMP-1



MCIS demo Millieu:
https://youtu.be/Kyk8c0ybHgc

This sound is 2nd pickup selector placement on a Blue/Silver/Red Lace Sensor strat, going into EQ, into Alesis 3630 for boost and mild compression, into the second of the clean channels on the JMP-1. Having an EQ in the effects chain is essential to get this sound, rather than something that is murky, muffled, and dull by comparison.


Mild compression is important for Billy's plucky clean guitar sounds. Having no compression at all is often just unpleasant, making the apex of guitar notes thin, and makes string bends sort of whiny-sounding during high-gain leads. Though adding too much compression flattens the signal too much and takes away all the pristine chime-iness.

Some pedals, like the BOSS CS-3 squash the sound too much to get that kind of well-defined tone - though Billy has used a CS-3 compressor, it generally is an overly-squashy, loud noise compressor.

It sounds to me like the BOSS CS-3 is being used on the lead guitar in this MCIS night-time version demo from the 2012 MCIS reissue:
https://youtu.be/hp6NIjg7Kjg

I would not recommend a BOSS CS-3 for general compression needs, due to its excessive tone-squashing, and high noise level.

How much of this do you think may have been done post-production?

he/she/it 03-25-2016 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 (Post 4254084)
this is great


Eddie might have a few things to say about that.


teh b0lly!!1 03-25-2016 11:26 PM

can you post a link to that, poots?

he/she/it 03-25-2016 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken (Post 4254097)
How much of this do you think may have been done post-production?

It's been said, I think by Billy, that the eventide harmonizer was used extensively on the album, though I don't know if it would have been applied while playing, or applied afterwards. A lot of what the eventide harmonizer sounds are used for is not typical obvious harmonizing, but to create different styles of background noise and artifacts, which I guess is sort of meant to psyche the listener into perceiving that there is greater depth and complexity to the sound. If the harmonizer parts were isolated, they might sound pretty garish or garbled on their own, and with little, and sometimes no melody heard in them.

The watery effect during this BWBW interlude section is probably the eventide harmonizer:
https://youtu.be/dlzilCmcyxY?t=95

The deliberate excessive grainy hissiness in the chorus could also possibly be the eventide harmonizer (though the bridge section noise is caused by a Fender Blender distortion pedal):
https://youtu.be/dlzilCmcyxY?t=125

There's also sometimes layering of different ways of playing a riff, just so that the guitar tone isn't one consistent thing that's easily definable. An example is the very quiet cleanish (I think) auto-wah performance of the chorus riff playing out of only the left speaker during the choruses of BWBW,:
https://youtu.be/dlzilCmcyxY?t=51

Also, the heavy BWBW parts are being played as power chords in some takes, and as root chords in others, and then layered together, with the power chord takes made louder than the root chord takes.

There's still EQ'ing done in the post-recording, stuff like filtering out some of the bassiness in guitar takes that overlaps with the bass guitar frequencies, and EQ carving, and anything else that just sounds good to do when playing around with sounds during playback.


Eventide has plugins released now that can do all the same stuff that the expensive rack used by the Pumpkins did on MCIS.

But I think most of the production, guitar-wise, is in the live performance, the MXR DII + Alesis 3630 + JMP-1 + Strategy 500, the guitar layers, the eventide harmonizer, then additional EQ in mixing, and then standard mastering. There are for sure other pedals being used, and many other tricks, but I think that the recognizable bulk of the sounds heard on the album can be produced from those things.

teh b0lly!!1 03-25-2016 11:40 PM

i'm pretty sure the harmonizer was used on his vocals, to give it that doubled chorused sound

almost all SD guitars are very dry in the mix. almost nothing but eq and distortion. not even delays.
i'd be surprised to hear they used harmonizers on guitars. the mix was cluttered enough as it is

he/she/it 03-25-2016 11:47 PM

The harmonizer is definitely used on Billy's vocals, but I'm certain it is also being used on guitar. There's a watery effect sort of like the one I linked to in BWBW that's a preset with the E. Harmonizer vst plugin that I have, and there are lots of other preset artifact noises that are relatable to stuff that I hear going on in MCIS.

teh b0lly!!1 03-26-2016 12:07 AM

i thought we were talking about SD.
MCIS sounds like shit.

he/she/it 03-26-2016 12:21 AM

Well, I was talking about MCIS.

The E Harmonizer was used on Soma live, for all the funky background weird noises:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=121

he/she/it 03-26-2016 12:25 AM

It's also being used here on Porcelina, for those chimey-watery effects:
https://youtu.be/d3szzhg38m4?t=62

Run To Me 03-27-2016 11:17 AM

The EQ makes a lot of sense

One of the more astounding things about golden age SP is that no matter how dense/loud/busy the mix sounds for the first minute and a half or so, somehow they were able to cram a new, louder guitar sound into there at appropriate moments

Like when Stand Inside Your Love opens up on "all that I have dreamed"

he/she/it 03-27-2016 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Run To Me (Post 4254484)
The EQ makes a lot of sense

One of the more astounding things about golden age SP is that no matter how dense/loud/busy the mix sounds for the first minute and a half or so, somehow they were able to cram a new, louder guitar sound into there at appropriate moments

Like when Stand Inside Your Love opens up on "all that I have dreamed"

To get that clarity of takes in a mix dense with parts, what's done is called "EQ carving", to make parts stand out by dedicating particular frequencies to them. There are youtube and written tutorials for it, like this one. But one basic implementation of it, to create a sense of difference between left and right stereo channels, is to increase, lower, or do both, to certain frequencies on one stereo side, say of rhythm guitar, and then do the opposite on the other stereo side. Here's an image comparing two stereo sides featuring this type of EQ carving:



The result is that each stereo audio channel has its own niche in the mix, and things actually sound more stereo, and unique from either channel, and less homogenized.

EQ carving can also be used in a comb filtering style, and basically any EQ shape a person can think of. A Smashing Pumpkins section that probably has very heavy EQ carving is the layered lead guitars in the intro of Thru the Eyes of Ruby.



Another, I think interesting, thing regarding Pumpkins sound, is the partly-cocked wah sound, which is talked about regarding Billy's Reverend signature guitar in this video:
https://youtu.be/lzl60Kyoy0Q?t=121

And which is also mentioned on this website, in regards to the pickups used in Billy's Reverend sig guitar:
http://www.railhammer.com/Billy_Corgan_Bridge.html

"The unique EQ features a mild midrange bump, imparting a slight "cocked wah pedal" effect (aka "the Sabbath note" per Billy), which gives the tone extra punch and weight even with the heaviest distortion or fuzz."

I think that's the slightly-nasally sound that's being heard in the heavy guitars that kick in here:
https://youtu.be/d3szzhg38m4?t=100

And also in this Here is No Why solo:
https://youtu.be/2PhAJcXpaRU?t=134

And which is also being used throughout that concert, and many from the MCIS tour. It is also often used for live performance lead solos throughout the pumpkins' career.



Listening to some live Siamese Dream era performances, it sounds to me like the Eventide Harmonizer H3000, which is the model seen in Pumpkins' racks around that time, is used pretty widely for guitar parts. There's a plugin from Eventide of that same model that the Pumpkins used mid-90's, which comes with a ton of presets for guitar, and I used it subtly on select guitar takes in this track: https://youtu.be/iwvhDtHu2TE

The Harmonizer isn't just for basic harmonies, and that's a very small part of what the device actually is designed for. It's kind of like an abstract noise generator, which makes interpolations based on the audio that's put into it, and creates a side layer that can sound like all kinds of textures, blips, whooshes, distortions, meshes, harmonies... and that generated layer is mixed into the raw guitar audio to make it more multi-faceted, textured, etc.

slunken 03-27-2016 06:08 PM

Those "nasal sounds" for leads was made with a phaser with the rate turned down. I don't want to be a jerk but what are your sources on any/all of this?

Gear used in the studio =/= gear used live. Do you think there was a guy pushing a button on a rack-mounted H3000 and then shutting it off? Or switching the pre-sets for the foot pedal in between each song? I don't.

slunken 03-27-2016 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by he/she/it (Post 4254112)
Well, I was talking about MCIS.

The E Harmonizer was used on Soma live, for all the funky background weird noises:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=121

That's phase and reverse delay

slunken 03-27-2016 06:16 PM

I just don't think you should confuse studio application with live work

he/she/it 03-27-2016 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken (Post 4254574)
Those "nasal sounds" for leads was made with a phaser with the rate turned down. I don't want to be a jerk but what are your sources on any/all of this?

A phaser with its rate turned down still creates a pulsing movement (like in Cherub Rock's album solo), unless it's like a Bad Stone, which has a momentary setting (the MXR 100 Billy describes as using for SD solos doesn't have that ability). When Billy described using a phaser with its rate knob turned all the way down for leads, he said it was to create some movement. A slow-rate phaser does not sound like what I linked to, but a partly-cocked wah does.

My source, well, I have 18 years as a guitarist, and many years of sound production experience, and also mostly-shamelessly have nearly the same guitar and amp setups as Bill's SD and MCIS eras. I've spent years learning recording and live tone techniques that accomplish my favourite sounds of the Pumpkins, so I use that as a reference, along with the information I've learned from other musicians and sound engineers over the years.


Quote:

Gear used in the studio =/= gear used live. Do you think there was a guy pushing a button on a rack-mounted H3000 and then shutting it off? Or switching the pre-sets for the foot pedal in between each song? I don't.
The H3000, and typically all rack-mounted guitar equipment, takes MIDI commands - which means it is controllable using a foot controller, just like switching channels and presets for an amp, or turning on and off particular pedals is. A foot controller can not only engage or disengage the H3000, but also switch presents on it. A single switch on a foot controller will be calibrated to particular call commands that relate to all used equipment in a rack, and so one press can bring up any new configuration from all equipment, all at once.

That said, I don't know how Billy had his set up going for this performance, but Billy motions to off-stage crew here, right before the effect starts:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=116

So, I would say that in this instance that someone did indeed engage an effect for Billy - and that's entirely not uncommon in live performances for many artists. But an H3000 shouldn't need off-stage enabling or controlling, unless Billy wanted more effects on-hand than his foot controller had room for at once, or some other particularity.


Also, Billy looks to position his foot here, and perhaps presses the wrong thing, because a pretty nasty off-pitch sub-octave harmonizer effect plays once he strums the chord. And he smiles to himself, possibly in embarrassment because it was an accident, and then plays the following chord in stronger determination, like he's correcting the sound to himself. It then looks like he double-checks what foot switch he's pressing, and after he does so, his guitar tone changes from distortion to a cleanish effect:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=146


Billy gives a cold stare off-stage after the excessive delay volume here, and then a few seconds later motions to his mic or pedal setup, while having eye-contact off-stage - so crew definitely was making changes for him mid-song (which, as I said, is not uncommon):
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=216


Billy, James, guitarists in general, do switch between presets mid-song, and you can see Billy pressing a footswitch button right here:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=198



Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken (Post 4254579)
That's phase and reverse delay

There is a delay effect (which could also come from the H3000), but not phaser. Notice the effect cascades downwards and in step-fashion with each strum, and not in oscillating or smooth manner (though there are some step-oscillation phasers that could do this). Also note that the signal caused by Billy's strumming is what triggers the effect's downward cascading, whereas a phaser would phase-shift a sound depending on where the phase-effect already was in its oscillation at the time a player strums their guitar.

he/she/it 03-27-2016 08:25 PM

My personal guess is that the nasal solo heard in the Here is No Why video that I linked to is from using a stationary setting of the auto wah feature from the ADA MP-2 preamp, which Billy has in his studio and live MCIS rig.

slunken 03-27-2016 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by he/she/it (Post 4254619)
A phaser with its rate turned down still creates a pulsing movement (like in Cherub Rock's album solo), unless it's like a Bad Stone, which has a momentary setting (the MXR 100 Billy describes as using for SD solos doesn't have that ability). When Billy described using a phaser with its rate knob turned all the way down for leads, he said it was to create some movement. A slow-rate phaser does not sound like what I linked to, but a partly-cocked wah does.

My source, well, I have 18 years as a guitarist, and many years of sound production experience, and also mostly-shamelessly have nearly the same guitar and amp setups as Bill's SD and MCIS eras. I've spent years learning recording and live tone techniques that accomplish my favourite sounds of the Pumpkins, so I use that as a reference, along with the information I've learned from other musicians and sound engineers over the years.



The H3000, and typically all rack-mounted guitar equipment, takes MIDI commands - which means it is controllable using a foot controller, just like switching channels and presets for an amp, or turning on and off particular pedals is. A foot controller can not only engage or disengage the H3000, but also switch presents on it. A single switch on a foot controller will be calibrated to particular call commands that relate to all used equipment in a rack, and so one press can bring up any new configuration from all equipment, all at once.

That said, I don't know how Billy had his set up going for this performance, but Billy motions to off-stage crew here, right before the effect starts:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=116

So, I would say that in this instance that someone did indeed engage an effect for Billy - and that's entirely not uncommon in live performances for many artists. But an H3000 shouldn't need off-stage enabling or controlling, unless Billy wanted more effects on-hand than his foot controller had room for at once, or some other particularity.


Also, Billy looks to position his foot here, and perhaps presses the wrong thing, because a pretty nasty off-pitch sub-octave harmonizer effect plays once he strums the chord. And he smiles to himself, possibly in embarrassment because it was an accident, and then plays the following chord in stronger determination, like he's correcting the sound to himself. It then looks like he double-checks what foot switch he's pressing, and after he does so, his guitar tone changes from distortion to a cleanish effect:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=146


Billy gives a cold stare off-stage after the excessive delay volume here, and then a few seconds later motions to his mic or pedal setup, while having eye-contact off-stage - so crew definitely was making changes for him mid-song (which, as I said, is not uncommon):
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=216


Billy, James, guitarists in general, do switch between presets mid-song, and you can see Billy pressing a footswitch button right here:
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=198





There is a delay effect (which could also come from the H3000), but not phaser. Notice the effect cascades downwards and in step-fashion with each strum, and not in oscillating or smooth manner (though there are some step-oscillation phasers that could do this). Also note that the signal caused by Billy's strumming is what triggers the effect's downward cascading, whereas a phaser would phase-shift a sound depending on where the phase-effect already was in its oscillation at the time a player strums their guitar.



Makes sense. I can dig it. Thanks for the response.

slunken 03-27-2016 09:09 PM

I guess my doubts arose because you mention only studio/rack gear and nothing from a live pedalboard

he/she/it 03-27-2016 10:24 PM

No problem. Figuring out these sounds has been an interest of mine, and this seems like the place to share what I've learned. I'm still figuring more things out about these sounds, though.


I took another look at this instance:
Quote:

Billy gives a cold stare off-stage after the excessive delay volume here, and then a few seconds later motions to his mic or pedal setup, while having eye-contact off-stage - so crew definitely was making changes for him mid-song (which, as I said, is not uncommon):
https://youtu.be/qtw88GeFhwM?t=216
And that one is actually Billy breaking a string, and motioning to his guitar's headstock to off-stage crew. Then, after the solo and during the pause before Soma's gentle outro, a crew person hands him another guitar, which he finishes the song with.

teh b0lly!!1 03-27-2016 10:55 PM

billy's vocal production thing was actually much heavier on the chorusing that i had previously realized. there was recently some guitar-hero-rock-band thing where you got the isolated vocal of some SD song. probably cherub rock.

the chorusing is a lot deeper than what you can hear in the mix. i remember audio engineers saying that tricks like that work particularly well if the singer is slightly out of tune - and well, billy does have a lot of tuning issues. so nice call, butch vig. billy's voice on SD was produced just perfectly


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