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Trotskilicious 05-16-2014 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noyen (Post 4061154)
i thought tribes did.

the mmo?

noyen 05-16-2014 12:38 AM

i'm okay with killing certain things because i trained my own mind with the help of white people, no doubt, that my guilt and need for survival is worth their hurt and death. being in denial of what you're doing is one thing, embracing it is another. i mean, i've watched that movie "earthlings" hundreds of times and i've been hunting deer and slaughted cows, chickens, goats and sheep. it's a lot of work when you get bloody and have to look at an animal die whether it is painless, quick or not. compartmentalizing that eating wilbur is okay vs foie torture feeding is wrong is fooling yrself because it's all the same means to an end. torture sucks and we've all be brainwashed that that part is okay because they're going to die anyway, me included. i agree with the hippies at the same time. you should wholly embrace the industry of killing and torturing animals if you eat meat because.... SIZZLER BUFFET.

vixnix 05-16-2014 12:43 AM

If you're going to kill the animal anyway - not just for hedonistic reasons, but for nutrition, too - are you saying it isn't a more ethical decision to treat them in a way they enjoy, before killing them quickly and painlessly, rather than keeping them however is cheapest or most desirable to you, and then killing them without any regard to their suffering?

That seems like a strange and untenable line of argument.

noyen 05-16-2014 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious (Post 4061160)
the mmo?

haha! but for real. little tribes created religions and mythology and tacos and thus ethics are born.

noyen 05-16-2014 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixnix (Post 4061163)
If you're going to kill the animal anyway - not just for hedonistic reasons, but for nutrition, too - are you saying it isn't a more ethical decision to treat them in a way they enjoy, before killing them quickly and painlessly, rather than keeping them however is cheapest or most desirable to you, and then killing them without any regard to their suffering?

That seems like a strange and untenable line of argument.

ethics.. ethics... look up at how magical that word is and the connotations behind it. ethic is a intangible thing made up. by tribes of white people.

that makes you feel better. can you not wrap your head around this. your niceness is selfishness. can you not see that one group of people justify doing things one way and another justifies it doing it another and another group of people dont give a fuck because it doesnt matter to them.

Bread Regal 05-16-2014 12:47 AM

if you're going to base your argument on the notion that animal products are nutritionally necessary, i'm living proof that you're an idiot.

noyen 05-16-2014 12:48 AM

and i just defended your "untenable" line of logic. surely that can't happen in your world.

Bread Regal 05-16-2014 12:53 AM

guys, it's been real, but i'm gonna drink the rest of my cough syrup, have a wank and hopefully never wake up.

vixnix 05-16-2014 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Regal (Post 4061166)
if you're going to base your argument on the notion that animal products are nutritionally necessary, i'm living proof that you're an idiot.

I didn't say they were nutritionally necessary - I was a vegan/vegetarian for 7 years in a row, so I know that. But you're an idiot if you think that humans are not evolved to consume animal flesh as a food source. Meat does nourish the human animal. That's why it smells good when it's cooking on an open fire, and tastes good when we're eating it.

How long have you been a vegetarian? And have you ever stayed on farms with animals reared for meat? Have you worked in butchery units?

I know what is involved in putting meat on my plate. It isn't nice. Neither is abortion. We're not nice animals. But we can make decisions about how to lessen our impact on others, and providing animals with pleasant lives, and killing them quickly and painlessly, before eating them, is a way to do that. I know the kind of animal I'm eating and whether or not I could kill it if I had to. I could. That's the nature of who I am - if it comes down to my children and me being nourished, I'll kill the beast and stick it on the fire, no worries.

noyen 05-16-2014 01:00 AM

well then fucking happy birthday to you and a big pat on the back.

Bread Regal 05-16-2014 01:00 AM

"nourished"

shut up.

noyen 05-16-2014 01:01 AM

she plays organ in church, you can't touch those ethics.

vixnix 05-16-2014 01:31 AM

I guess the point here, is don't delude yourself about what you are - none of us are nice. We all do things that are horrible. Raising animals to slaughter them for food, is horrible. But there can be greater and lesser amounts of horror.

I am being called out as an idiot for thinking that an animal kept like this before being slaughtered:

http://www.teara.govt.nz/files/p20080nsil.jpg
is better off than an animal kept like this, before being slaughtered:
http://www.lennial.com/wp-content/up...oie-gras-1.jpg

Yeah, maybe not, in some abstract, "I-grew-up-in-the-suburbs-and-have-never-hunted-or-gathered-my-own-meal-my food-decisions-are-things-like-do-I-buy-the-organic-lentils-or-the-ones-in-the-glass-jar-to-avoid-the-BPA" way, there is no difference.

But to me there is. I'm pretty sure...to the animals...there is a difference for them. We could stop slaughtering them altogether and survive - but we're not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to kid myself that I am capable of that, any more than a rat is, or a lion is, or a shark is. You guise all seem to have this very inflated idea about what humanity is whereby we are able to live independently of the evolutionary history that precedes our lives today.

The exploding boy 05-16-2014 01:40 AM

I don't think i could do true veganism but i'm gonna get as close to it as i can. More like vegetarian plus or something. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of going dairy free. I don't think i can do that. I'd rather find a dairy producer i can be assured are ethical if thats even possible to know for sure. I think there's some hippie-run sites for these things.

I wish i didn't give a shit but i think at this point it's pretty much part of my mental problems, I think i have TOO much compassion for animals. More than i do for humans for sure. I mean i've reached the point where i avoid killing bugs around the house. My dad was raised on a farm where they slaughtered pigs and chickens so he now thinks i'm pretty much retarded. I was raised in the countryside, around farms, but not on one.

Trotskilicious 05-16-2014 02:00 AM

i just remembered that vixnix made a big deal about raising her retard kid as a vegan because he cried after seeing a lamb on the television or something

Trotskilicious 05-16-2014 02:01 AM

you guys remember that thread right

Trotskilicious 05-16-2014 02:01 AM

was that even six months ago

vixnix 05-16-2014 02:15 AM

After seven years switching between vegetarianism and veganism, I began craving animal flesh - and when I became pregnant for the first time it got even worse so in the end I just stopped fighting it.

I would always eat shellfish and fish, maybe a couple of times a year - I would get these huge urges and would give in and eat a lot of mussels or some sashimi or something. The reward signals in my brain were crazy, it was like crack.

The same when I finally gave in and began eating chicken - I was living in a house with vegan flatmates at the time, so I would buy cooked chicken drumsticks from the deli on the way home from uni, and eat them hunched over on a park bench in the botanic gardens, then smoke a cigarette and chew some gum to disguise the smell of decaying animal flesh on me. But I remember feeling a surge of good feelings, sitting on that park bench. Eating those chicken drumsticks made me feel like I was walking on air.

I was all systems go as a 16 year old vegan - and 23 when I finally gave up. My health improved pretty dramatically. You gotta look at the sort of breeding you have before you go vegan...this:
http://www.iisd.ca/uncsd/prepp/image...hoto_11-tn.jpg
and veganism don't necessarily jive, that much.

When you remove large quantities of saturated fat and animal protein from the Samoan diet, and replace it with plant fats and carbohydrates...you commonly see this:

http://travelcrawler.co.uk/wp-conten...31_306x464.jpg

Samoans are big eaters and need plenty of plant fibre, animal protein, and animal fat in their diets to stop themselves from becoming overweight. Without the appropriate food and appropriate amount of rest triggering the right chemical reactions from the brain, the hormones that control their appetite and satiety become out of kilter and we will just keep eating until we throw up - watching what we eat is miserable and leads to obsession because unless we mimic the conditions we are adapted for, we feel the need to eat something else.

Trots he was never vegan - he was vegetarian. But the poor thing couldn't make it work - when we were eating meat he would "just try it" and then couldn't stop himself from eating it once he started...I could see he was starting to feel ashamed of himself. So I told him it sad that we kill the animals for meat, but they are given a good life. Which is true - we buy free range chicken/eggs/pork, and grass feed lamb/beef. Still not sold on beef. It's expensive environmentally to rear it, and no better in terms of nutrition, than sheep or pork. And cows and pigs are significantly smarter than sheep. You can't send a dog to round them up, for instance.

Trotskilicious 05-16-2014 02:21 AM

beef is so good i think i will have some now

vixnix 05-16-2014 02:37 AM

I think it's popular because it's a very tasty meat in the sense that the musky animal taste:delicious fatty & protein-y taste ratio is ideally balanced for the human palate.

Like, goat tastes like goats...sheep tastes like sheep...but beef and chicken are both very mild tasting. So they're very popular with children, and Americans.

The exploding boy 05-16-2014 02:38 AM

what does it say about me that i would eat most of what is on thisiswhyyourefat. Well, or would anyway when i was still eating meat a few months back. Most of the stuff with meat looks in fact like the kind of stuff i might break veg for.

noyen 05-16-2014 02:40 AM

hungry as fuck RN too

The exploding boy 05-16-2014 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixnix (Post 4061201)
I think it's popular because it's a very tasty meat in the sense that the musky animal taste:delicious fatty & protein-y taste ratio is ideally balanced for the human palate.

Like, goat tastes like goats...sheep tastes like sheep...but beef and chicken are both very mild tasting. So they're very popular with children, and Americans.

Lamb is/was actually my favorite meat. We often had it at home when i was growing up. A lamb roast is better than any other type of roast. Thing is after i moved out i probably only ever had it once every like...3 or 4 years. I went to an afghan resturant a few years ago that made amazing lamb roast with fried spinachs. One of the best thing i've eaten at any restaurant.

vixnix 05-16-2014 02:58 AM

I actually prefer mutton! I like it a bit stronger tasting, with more fat through it. But sheep meat is my favourite, of the land animals.

If I had to pick one animal though it would probably be fish. No surprises there.

Lucky Day Spa 05-16-2014 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixnix (Post 4060874)
It isn't good for them or us, to mistreat them or not take their life with some sense of regret and gratitude.

eh, this is nonsense

eating meat is not necessary for your survival. if you have regret, stop doing it

gratitude for something taken without being given isn't gratitude

etc.

Lucky Day Spa 05-16-2014 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious (Post 4061014)
what if like, man, this vegetarian/vegan moment is evolution at work man like man what if man we are evolving by making this "choice" and this choice will help us survive when that antarctic shelf melts man

what if it's like quantum consciousness and shit

Lucky Day Spa 05-16-2014 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sppunk (Post 4061039)
I knew that'd set you off. :) There's an In-and-Out now? Most overrated burger I've probably ever had was from one of those.

yeah, this

i watched the big lebowski so many times i was certain those were going to be good burgers walter but they were just okay

best burgers i had in the US were at super duper on market street in san francisco and some gastropub in orange

Lucky Day Spa 05-16-2014 06:43 AM

super duper was actually exactly like i was expecting in-n-out to be

Order 66 05-16-2014 07:02 AM

i actually haven't started cooking since recently. i'm almost down 20 pounds from 6 months ago... amazing how much your health improves once you stop eating out all the time

vixnix 05-16-2014 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Day Spa (Post 4061213)

eating meat is not necessary for your survival. if you have regret, stop doing it

gratitude for something taken without being given isn't gratitude

etc.

Sort of half formed ideas here.

pavementtune 05-16-2014 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Order 66 (Post 4061220)
i actually haven't started cooking since recently. i'm almost down 20 pounds from 6 months ago... amazing how much your health improves once you stop eating out all the time

Where/what did you eat out before? I should try that, I want to put on weight, but I'm losing weight when I can't cook myself.

Lucky Day Spa 05-16-2014 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixnix (Post 4061222)
Sort of half formed ideas here.

that's just another way of saying "i don't agree"

at least i gave you some reasons

vixnix 05-16-2014 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Day Spa (Post 4061213)
eh, this is nonsense

eating meat is not necessary for your survival. if you have regret, stop doing it

gratitude for something taken without being given isn't gratitude

etc.

what is your concept of survival? does it ******* some kind of gradation like I will be in better condition in 20 years if I eat a bit of meat every few days than if I don't...that kind of thing? Or just...if I don't eat meat, I won't die in the next few days.

if you have regret, stop doing it = non sequitur

gratitude for something taken without being given isn't gratitude - why not?

there you go

Cool As Ice Cream 05-16-2014 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixnix (Post 4061238)
gratitude for something taken without being given isn't gratitude - why not?

thank you for this thing i took from you without your consent!

Cool As Ice Cream 05-16-2014 08:16 AM

hey, you have this thing and i will take it from you, even though you don't want me to, but don't worry, i'll show regret and gratitude! THANKS, DEAD ANIMAL! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS THING YOU HAD NO SAY IN! it's in the bible!

vixnix 05-16-2014 08:21 AM

I just googled for advice on explaining transitive vs intransitive verbs because it has been a while since I've thought about it, and what do you know, the concept I was looking to explain already has a name: intransitive gratitude

It's like how people feel grateful for Billy Corgan's music even though he didn't give it to them specifically.

I feel grateful that I can be nourished by the flesh of a dead animal. And I feel regret that it had to die for me to receive that specific type of nourishment.

vixnix 05-16-2014 08:26 AM

I suppose it could just be sadness and shame that i mask with other emotions that I find more palatable/digestible. It's hard to tell with these sorts of things and you know partly because it doesn't matter, I'm still going to eat meat, so....

Cool As Ice Cream 05-16-2014 08:31 AM

like i said, it's in the bible, siad corgan.

vixnix 05-16-2014 08:34 AM

amen to that, brother ice cream!

Cool As Ice Cream 05-16-2014 08:42 AM

DORK SIDED!!!1 IN THE NAME OF JESUS I PRAY GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE


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