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-   -   Guitar Playing and gear thread (http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=181491)

he/she/it 04-12-2016 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 (Post 4257499)
legitimate points.
to play devil's advocate though, it's fine to use jmp-alesis-strategy and claim it's not ripping off somebody else, but if you go strat w/ lace sensors too it kind of seems too much.

I've played a Lace Sensor strat even longer than I've had my current amps, and I'm continuing to play them not because it's just what I'm used to, but because I know the difference and the quality which the Lace Sensors bring, and I truly enjoy these over normal strat pickups. There could be pickups I'd like more, but this is one area where I'm not spending money to search out further, not without having more money than I have things that need it.

Also, the more a person becomes familiar with any gear, the more they relate to and engage that gear through their personal knowledge of it, and less through their association of that gear with somebody else - no matter how similar the gear is. Experience playing gear leads to the development of considerations regarding that gear, which becomes a person's conception of what that gear is.

I note that this seems like a thing only because we're talking about a sound that thus far is perceived as particular to an album, or a time-period for a band - whereas the employment of sounds that are ubiquitous is not considered a thing of note. So, the more the gear is communicated in a manner that is not referencing just one album or band, the less of a thing its employment will naturally become. There are very few tones that I appreciate just as tones, outside of their context of being used in songs, and I personally believe it would be tragic if some of my favourite tones were made strictly a thing of the past, not to be heard in any new music.

Also, a person can have whatever gear, and if they aren't making attractive music, it isn't going to count for much. But if they make great music, nobody is going to fault them for the gear they're playing it through, or fail to recognize the music as being great. So, I sort of think of the matter of what gear a person uses as moot - they're either a fan happily enjoying their interest, or they're creating something new from a familiar set of tools. And a person avoiding their desired sound out of an idealism is, to me, what sounds lame. If something's what you love, it would be a big insecurity to keep yourself from it based on what your presumption is of what others might think.


Quote:

but either way i only commented because i saw you were posting about how to get MCIS tones, not because you use similar gear.
Well, it's an SP forum. My tones are not exact SP tones, but I know how to get SP tones. And I think that detailing these things generates new and deeper awareness, and exactness within the SP community, which makes the knowledge-base of SP something more tangible than it is without greater SP details.

My rig is a lot more than just the items discussed in this thread, and I think I've actually bested the MCIS heavy sounds with my current setup, which means that I'm truly playing with my favourite sounds in the world, and that they are my own as much as anyone's is who didn't design their own gear's hardware. But MCIS is definitely the inspiration that got me there - just as is the situation with some of Billy's greatest tones emerging from sounds generated first by Catherine, Schenker, Black Sabbath, and more.

Quote:

anyway why don't you post some playing clips? let's hear it!
I have a couple of things posted in the "Thread for posting your musics" thread. I haven't yet recording anything heavy using my amp setup as it is now, though I will in time.


Here's one of the more recent things I recorded, though my sound and production skills have improved since, twice over:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvhDtHu2TE

I'm working on a track that will show improvement in sound and production over this, though it still isn't representative of how my rig now sounds, because I've changed multiple things in my setup since I recorded its rhythm guitars - things which I think make the guitar still even bolder, and better.


Here's a recording from a year and a half ago, which I did largely using vst plugins (though a boost pedal is being used, along with the JMP-1, and its sizzle that I love is loudly present), and MIDI drums, before I took my amp rigs out of storage and started developing them further, with a lot more knowledge and experience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR-NcxG3kA

SlingeroGuitaro 04-12-2016 04:30 AM

I own and run a recording studio. When someone says 'I think I want ___ sound' it helps to know which road will take you there

slunken 04-12-2016 08:03 PM

i'm going to be that asshole that chimes in and says something trite like "tone is all in your fingers/vibrato"

slunken 04-12-2016 08:06 PM

But seriously attack and hand strength are not things to dismiss when considering tone. Everyone has heard flaccid playing through great equipment. 2 equally skilled guitarists can coax completely different sounds and feelings passing around the same guitar through the same setup, even playing the same song.

redbreegull 04-12-2016 08:18 PM

I once read a blurb in one of those awful magazines like Guitar One or something arguing that Billy Corgan has one of the worst senses of tone of all rock guitarists, and it's because he holds the neck so poorly

teh b0lly!!1 04-12-2016 08:20 PM

i completely agree (edit: @ slunken)

unfortunately i went to a guitar teacher that did not teach me this stuff. i only REALLY learned how important it is to attack the strings a certain way with your right hand to make the whole instrument come to life in like, the past 3 years

which also brings us to another thing that really influences the way you sound, and nobody ever talks about: the way you fall on the beat and keep time

Elphenor 04-12-2016 08:46 PM

I bought a new strat today and some recording stuff

I'll try and upload something here this week

slunken 04-12-2016 08:48 PM

cool what did you get

slunken 04-12-2016 09:02 PM

I haven't been playing much electric the past few months. Been focusing back on bottleneck country blues guitar in open D. I'm also starting to learn ragtime style clawhammer fingerpicking in standard tuning, which was kind of a proto-blues style that lets you play chords and melodies all while holding the same shape.


slunken 04-12-2016 09:06 PM

Just trying to get away from the flood of gear and wires for a while.

Elphenor 04-12-2016 09:12 PM

A black Mexican Strat

It is a step up from my previous black made in china Strat

And a mic and the thing that lets you plug your guitar straight into your computer

Elphenor 04-12-2016 09:15 PM

I have the problem of hating things that I play in the moment of playing them but I was going through stuff I just recorded on a cell phone and forgot about so it was like listening to someone else playing and it all sounded pretty good

I actually invested in the stuff because I'm looking for musicians online and I gotta send snippets of my playing so I gotta represent

he/she/it 04-13-2016 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poots (Post 4257527)
I think everybody starts out by trying to cop someone else's sound, then you eventually settle on something more yourself. How many people have bought a strat because Jimi Hendrix played one. You get the gear, you get their sound, then you branch out and do something else. I doubt that after a decade of the JMP1-Alesis-Strategy that he/she/it is still in there playing "Rat in a Cage" over and over. But you hear the sound you like, and you try to get that sound. It seems frustrating to have a favorite tone in your head and then just play something completely different just because you don't want to be accuse of ripping someone's sound.

Also, he/she/it, does your Strategy 500 have KT88s or 6550s?. I've been looking at these beasts on ebay. There seems to be an NOS for sale for the low low price of $3K.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-...wAAOxy9X5TXFse

Actually, though I probably hadn't played it since I was a teenager, when I completed building my MXR DII clone, one of the first things I did was play the rat-in-a-cage intro to see if this was the pedal I had been thinking it was. It was: Magic became real, and I was the album.

AFAIK, all Strategy 500s comes with 4x12AX7, 8x6L6, 4x6550. But I've replaced the 6550s on one side of mine with KT88s, after checking with Mesa if the tube values wouldn't harm the amp. They said the values of my KT88s were close enough that they should be compatible without any modification (though the risk was on me), and that's what I've been running. The amp is auto-biasing, so no extra work is needed for newly-installed tubes. I also only use the one side of the amp, and the other side is backup, in case a tube fails on the side I use.

That 3K price is ritzy, though that is a beautiful specimen of a legendary amp. I found mine (many years ago, though, and prices for them obviously have increased) for something like $600 - 800 in a Craigslist listing, that was in Oregon, while I live in BC, Canada. It came with an ADA MP-1, and a sturdy touring case, so it was a super deal. But I lied on the way through customs back into Canada, about picking the amp up from a friend, and the customs people found the phone number for the people I bought it from in my car and called them, and I ended up getting a $250 fine for not declaring the amp for taxes. Bummer way to spoil the great deal I had.

Disco King 04-13-2016 03:35 AM

I need to practice playing cleanly and muting the strings I'm not playing. I was screwing around on a bass the other day, and I never play bass, so I was struck by how much more obvious sloppy playing is on a bass guitar than on a guitar guitar, and how muddy and gross it sounds when you don't mute unplayed strings. I have the same sloppy technique on guitar, it's just less obvious, but the muddiness is still there.

It feels like I have to learn how to play the instrument all over again to learn proper string muting. Even when I break shit down really slowly, it's hard to get my hands at the correct angles so that the strings I don't want to sound don't sound.

Ugh why do I suck at everything I wish I had just one thing in the world I could do correctly and admirably actually I give up guitar forever nothing matters

soniclovenoize 04-13-2016 09:33 AM

Anyone have a good rec for a bass compressor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4257676)
I need to practice playing cleanly and muting the strings I'm not playing. I was screwing around on a bass the other day, and I never play bass, so I was struck by how much more obvious sloppy playing is on a bass guitar than on a guitar guitar, and how muddy and gross it sounds when you don't mute unplayed strings. I have the same sloppy technique on guitar, it's just less obvious, but the muddiness is still there.

It feels like I have to learn how to play the instrument all over again to learn proper string muting. Even when I break shit down really slowly, it's hard to get my hands at the correct angles so that the strings I don't want to sound don't sound.

Ugh why do I suck at everything I wish I had just one thing in the world I could do correctly and admirably actually I give up guitar forever nothing matters

Yeah that's definitely a skill you need to pick up for bass, to pluck a string and then mute it while simultaneously hitting the next string. I've been doing it for so long, it's just second nature. I just started playing bass in a new band, and I actually got called out on it-- "Let those notes ring longer" I didn't even realize I was muting the notes.

he/she/it 04-13-2016 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poots (Post 4257709)
Have you A/B'ed the sides to see the difference in tone? I've heard there is no audible difference in 6550's and KT88's from some people while others say there is.

There's difference between different brands of the same type of tubes, but if comparing 6550 and KT88 of the same brand, I don't know, because I haven't been able to do that.

I compared JJ 6550s, Groove Tubes 6550s, and Ruby KT88s for the 6550 spots in my S-500, and tried both JJ and GT 6L6s in those spots, and a variety of 12AX7s in those spots. On one side, I ended up going with JJs for the 6L6 spots, and Ruby KT88 for the 6550 spots. And all GT on the other side, and Electro-Harmonix in the 12AX7 spots.

With this setup, the two sides of the amp make different kind of tone, volume levels, and high-gain impressions. I like them both. The GTs that I have on one side make a kind of squishy-mucusy attack that I like, and a crunchier, more rumpled type of gain, and flabbier lower-end, while the attack on the JJ / Ruby side is less pronounced, and the gain is more staticy and open-sounding, and the lower-end is more tightly controlled.

Switching between JJ 6550s and Ruby KT88s for the 6550 spot on the JJ 6L6s side produces a minor difference, but I felt that the gain was more even and broader, and the lower-end larger with the Ruby KT88s.

With enough tube sets to fill one side of this amp 4 times, and with spares tubes to replace any that go bad, I hope I'm set with tubes for this thing for at least the next 20 years. Though, the impression I get from what other people have said on the matter is that JJs aren't the most durable tubes.

teh b0lly!!1 04-13-2016 10:21 PM

well i guess all this terminology might as well literally be about shit:

* squishy-mucusy attack
* crunchier, more rumpled
* flabbier lower-end

related articles:
>>> Why doesn't Corgan ever let it rip anymore?>>>

Run To Me 04-16-2016 01:48 AM

I like Mexican strats too, they're lighter than the USA and you feel ok about punishing em with sweat and weather and stuff

Elph if it sounds good through your computer can you just find a way to run your computer out to a PA for live stuff? Until you get an amp/pedals you like?

he/she/it 04-16-2016 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco King (Post 4257676)
I need to practice playing cleanly and muting the strings I'm not playing. I was screwing around on a bass the other day, and I never play bass, so I was struck by how much more obvious sloppy playing is on a bass guitar than on a guitar guitar, and how muddy and gross it sounds when you don't mute unplayed strings. I have the same sloppy technique on guitar, it's just less obvious, but the muddiness is still there.

It feels like I have to learn how to play the instrument all over again to learn proper string muting. Even when I break shit down really slowly, it's hard to get my hands at the correct angles so that the strings I don't want to sound don't sound.

Ugh why do I suck at everything I wish I had just one thing in the world I could do correctly and admirably actually I give up guitar forever nothing matters

A lot of the lack-of-muddiness in guitar playing is from just playing the right strings and not the wrong ones, so that muting isn't necessary to begin with - but, a seasoned guitarist will be able to mute any bad notes immediately if they do play, and will probably have all not-to-be-played strings muted before there's a chance of them being played.

Even if this sounds tricky at first, it comes down to muscle memorization, and developed-precision. Think of a baby learning to hold a cup, or maneuvering a crayon with their hand. They aren't very graceful or exact with it. But as an adult, you hardly even have to be conscious to do the same things with exactness.

Also, a lot of guitarists hold their guitar's neck in a manner that keeps their thumb draped over the low E-string a lot ( https://youtu.be/wDvlErh5zcc ). This makes it easy to mute the top two strings, if needed, or to play the low E string with the thumb.

Also, your telling yourself crap about not being able to do things when you can't play harms your ability to learn. Your brain has a certain consideration equity, and if it adds up to 100, and you're giving yourself crap for not learning, then it could be, say 40 % of that equity is working against the 60% that is trying to move forward. Considerations are directional, and every thing you tell yourself will be re-considered back through your brain, and its value will either compliment, support, or offset, or antagonize the other consideration value that you're sending through your brain. So, your self-deriding expressions of how you think are also your future platform that you will make your next move from.

teh b0lly!!1 04-16-2016 05:34 AM

don't rely on your thumb to mute strings. it can work here and there, but your technique should be a mix between using your fretting hand index finger to sort of lay over the strings your not playing to mute them, using your right hand to block out strings that shouldn't be ringing, and maybe using your thumb here and there to drop the top strings from vibrating.

he/she/it 04-16-2016 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 (Post 4258221)
don't rely on your thumb to mute strings. it can work here and there, but your technique should be a mix between using your fretting hand index finger to sort of lay over the strings your not playing to mute them, using your right hand to block out strings that shouldn't be ringing, and maybe using your thumb here and there to drop the top strings from vibrating.

It depends on how a person plays guitar, but I'd say the thumb has to be as useful as using the fretting-hand's index finger, if a player uses their thumb to fret the top string, like Jimi Hendrix, or Billy Corgan, or any of many other guitarists do - because the index finger can't reach the top string when other fingers are fretting some notes, while the thumb is still positioned for action.

Some players aren't thumb-fretters, but that play-style looks awkward, less maneuverable, and less fun, to me.

Actually, I'm going to try this out, and see how I do it. I don't usually think about it, so I'm unsure.

he/she/it 04-16-2016 05:52 AM

I just tried it, and the thumb is a muting mainstay, which I use all over the place. As far as I can tell, the top E string can't be muted while playing the likes of an open C-chord, or the top two string in the case of an open D-chord, apart from thumb-muting action. I also use the thumb all up and down the neck, both for string-fretting, and for string-muting. I'm going to suggest that if a person plays with their thumb, like in the Jimi Hendrix style, then their thumb is probably their most frequently-engaged string-muting tool.

slunken 04-16-2016 02:47 PM

Or wimps who are afraid to show the guitar who is boss

Elphenor 04-16-2016 03:13 PM

Using the thumb all over the board is interesting

I only use it to mute the low E which I find mostly useless

soniclovenoize 04-16-2016 06:28 PM

OK so I just bought an Aural Exciter, which allegedly used to belong to Billy Corgan and was used on the pre-Gish demos.


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