A few tidbits regarding the Machina reissue.

http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/features/32345/Smashing-Pumpkins-Ill-have-the-last-laugh?page=1


Alright. Machina II is a brilliant album, have you ever thought about releasing it properly, maybe when you re-issue the others?

Yes. Our sell-out move, for Machina, is we’re going to remix the whole record and put it in its official sequence the way I’d hoped for in the beginning. I wrote it as a rock opera double album type of thing, so we’re going to remix the whole thing. I’ve already talked to Flood, and he’s been indicating he wants to be involved with that part of the process, and then we’ll finally finish the album, the way it was meant to be. How was that? Did that pass the Pitchfork meter of integrity? Me reaching into my own pockets to remix my own records so I can convince kids who didn’t like them the first time the first time to buy them again?

Well at least his cynicism indicates some sense of awareness.

http://ic.f.tsatic-cdn.net/1202/660_340/53a23_1202903.jpg

sounds intriguing
i've always wondered if machina's unlikable sound resulted from bad recording or bad mixing
guess we'll find out

Good interview. Especially at the end. I think he's right about having the last laugh. 20 years down the road, MCIS will be the next Dark Side of the Moon, and the pumpkins will have a huge diverse library of songs.

You said in a blog that you’re at a good place in your life.Is it possible to make relevant rock and roll while being happy and at peace?
I haven’t proven that point yet. The answer is ‘I don’t know’, I’ve made some of my best music when I’ve been fucking miserable.



least he knows his shit sucks

IMSOMBMWIBFM

sounds intriguing
i've always wondered if machina's unlikable sound resulted from bad recording or bad mixing
guess we'll find out

I think it's some of both. It will depend on how radically different the mix is. the actual mix on Machina is so horrible that it's hard to imagine it getting any worse.




Since IMO MCIS is perfect the way it is, and Adore is already my favorite album, all I really want out of the rest of the reissues is a completed Machina double album.

Machina is better than MCIS and Adore

Machina is better than MCIS and Adore

this is stupid

and i really like machina

even if the remixing sucks we'll at least know the intended tracklist though i'm sure some changes will have been made to that from then to now but still...

can always piece it together from the old source material

http://ic.f.tsatic-cdn.net/1124/150_150/16919_1124450.jpg

i don't think a remastering will change that most of these songs are wack.

Yeah... unless there are different versions. The acoustic demos for most of the songs were better than the album versions. Mastering was still one of the biggest problems with Machina, though

Mastering was still one of the biggest problems with Machina, though

Yes indeed. It only has a dynamic range of DR7.

This is the only re-issue I might buy. If the album benefits even half as much as Pearl Jam's "Ten" did from the remix I will be very, very happy. Also, it would be great to listen to the Machina II tracks in good quality. And if they add the Metro Show to the box, this would be a wonderful package.

Don't screw this up, Billy.

my prediction is the MII songs will be remixed to sound hi-fi and the MI songs will sound exactly the same

i don't think a remastering will change that most of these songs are wack.

He is going to re-mix these songs not remaster them. Much different. The whole song could change. Different tracks can be removed or added, vocals tracks can sound much different in a re mix.

r u a sound engineer?

can u post a bigger pic of that chick under your name plz

can u post a bigger pic of that chick under your name plz

see starla's thread on gen board

"Is there anything left unturned?

It’s pretty honest. The only catch in it is that everybody’s under pseudonyms. I don’t name names. I mean some people obviously there’s no way to not figure out who it is. But there’s a lot of people that have played an important role in my life who I just don’t name."

I'm waiting for the thread that dissects all of the characters.

D'arcy = Marcy
Jimmy = Phil
James = Mr. Chang

http://tinyurl.com/786ohxs

How was that? Did that pass the Pitchfork meter of integrity?

lol he's one of those

yea he seemed pretty peeved about the sell-out question and it affected his answer to the next question which was a pretty good one.

i took his answer with a grain of salt so i'm not holding my hopes high on some flood remix super concept album

Why can't Billy not be a dick? The question he was asked wasn't all that stupid.

Refreshing to see him finally admit that he made his best music being depressed. His happy rainbow shit was fucking annoying.

no it was pretty fucking stupid

oh man i can't wait for the new sequence, the mystery will all make sense now :popcorn:

:Popcorn:

what kind of a sick joke is this

:APOPCORN:

:apopcorn:

can u post a bigger pic of that chick under your name plz

http://www.gq.com/images/women/2010/04/coachella/coachella03.jpg

no it was pretty fucking stupid

He talks shit yet doesn't like it when he's challenged about his opinions. I don't think re-releasing the back catalogue is a sellout move yet I thought it was nice to see a journalist try to broach the topic of selling-out and Billy's own hypocrisies. Although the journalist should have picked a better example to call him on it.

http://www.gq.com/images/women/2010/04/coachella/coachella03.jpg

is there a pic that shows all of that tattoo?

God I wish.

Billy's still defending Zeitgeist though. ah, so he isn't 100% happy with it, not because the album kind of sucks ass, more because of the unasked-for expectation that we (the fans) put on it not being SD 2. however in this case Billy + Jimmy in a room is clearly not > 99% of music anymore. that kind of arrogant attitude is how we ended up with a bust like Zeitgeist. apparently, no-one except Billy can judge whether it was successful or not! and the album was apparently a sparse, metallic record, dark and lean: i'd like to hear him describe how this applies to most of it. Pomp, God + Country etc? it is slathered in production gimmickry. can one interviewer actually ask him, before i die, what the fuck is up with the horrible vocals? the studio engineer who posted on here before the album hit the stores called it right: good music, god-awful vocals. how can Billy not see this - with 5 years distance to add perspective?

worrying (for Oceania) that he's listening to GLOW and comparing it to MCIS and Machina. big surprise: it is on the list of potential live songs for the new tour. play Here is No Why, it is at least a billion times better than fucking GLOW, which pretty much no-one attending a show wants to hear. but of course Corgan doesn't want to be confined by fan expectations, so of course he won't play a great song that hasn't been heard live since '96 and will instead play a routine staple of recent tours. sigh.

It's not his art. It's the audience.

sounds intriguing
i've always wondered if machina's unlikable sound resulted from bad recording or bad mixing
guess we'll find out

bad effects it seemed like. or too many overdubs of a sort of guitar tone that didn't lend itself so well to that treatment, or...something.
i'd like to hear a 'less-produced' mix of it. way less effects or at least different effects on the vocals. but what really matters is getting a digital master [of the remaining machina 2 songs] from the master tape, and not from a fucking test record or whatever it was he pressed. while it didn't seem to help slow dawn all that much, i thought lucky 13 and real love sounded pretty good [rotten apples/judas 0]

there are no good riffs on it or anything with much musical power, i think he tried to hide it behind all the fuzziness or whatever it is that sounds so terrible.

the guy wrote the songs in two weeks ffs. what can u expect

i like the idea of having the machina album presented in the 2LP format it was suppose to come out. sadly i also feel this is so much DIE HARD fans thing that it will get smashed by press/non-fans either way and billy will moan and moan.

moan and moan.

i like the idea of having the machina album presented in the 2LP format it was suppose to come out. sadly i also feel this is so much DIE HARD fans thing that it will get smashed by press/non-fans either way and billy will moan and moan.

Yeah, it really is going to be a diehard fan product. I just hope it actually comes to fruition... it was easily the coolest concept from the big "remasters are coming!" announcement a year or so ago.

I think Smashing Pumpkins music, my music, fits in quite well with that because if you get bored with one part of me [there is another].

This is why the pumpkins are my favorite band.

...such a beautiful song.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pebJN-4qnLw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

2007:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Zh_wJZfDi24" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

1999:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dtZoR1RFU9Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Home is one of my favourite SP songs ever.

Home is one of my favourite SP songs ever.

You mean your favorite Simon & Garfunkle songs?

Never heard of that band, what're they like?

they're basically a rip off of the last five songs on mcis

I like Machina I & II a lot, but imagine how much better these records would have sounded with Butch Vig or someone else producing. Flood was clearly not the best as producing a rock band with heavy guitars and a monster drummer.

he did a shit job with the guitars but I thought Jimmy sounded pretty badass on most of Machina . Drums in TEG rip hard no matter which way you cut it.

Never heard of that band, what're they like?

They sound like the part in Home where Corgan completely ripped them off.

You're talking about Fleet Foxes?

Yep, Billy was definitely ripping off Fleet Foxes in 2000

You mean your favorite Simon & Garfunkle songs?

*Garfunkel

* Carbuncle

Flood was clearly not the best as producing a rock band with heavy guitars and a monster drummer.

yeah, flood's talent is mixing guitars and synths/programming (NIN, mute records, curve). most of his pure guitar records sound about as muffled as MCIS/machina (to bring you my love, nick cave, songs of faith and devotion). not a bad thing necessarily, but not his strongest efforts on the decks.

* Carbuncle

MP 36

oh man i can't wait for the new sequence, the mystery will all make sense now :popcorn:

:Popcorn:

:APOPCORN:

:apopcorn:

SUCCESS!

casts reflect on all party members

Is he going to leave off the songs that don't fit in the albums "story"?

All I have to say is , I want a better Quality version of White Spyder , I love that song but I question the quality of the rips that have been done of it :(

Not saying the rips are of the best quality, but WS is supposed to sound muddy and blown out.

I'm aware of that but "CD quality muddy & blown out" should be a hell of a lot better than "Decent Vinyl rip muddy & blown out"or at least thats what I'm hoping.

I'm aware of that but "CD quality muddy & blown out" should be a hell of a lot better than "Decent Vinyl rip muddy & blown out"or at least thats what I'm hoping.

Compare the CD versions of Slow Dawn, Lucky 13 and Real Love.

All of those songs sound muddy and blown out, no matter the medium. It's supposed to sound like shit.

You're exactly right, they certainly do all sound like shit.. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how all these songs are arranged on the re-issue.. I never understood Billy or much less the band calling Machina 2 an "album".. Its basically just 2 discs of b-sides and throw backs from late Adore era to Machina demos and such.. Plus the mixing is even more horrible than Machina 1.. Songs like 'Home' are ruined for me due to the high pitch synth sounds and lack of better mixing.. I'm curious how this album was 'supposed' to be, (eg. tracklisting order etc..) Will they knock off the alternate takes of HMM and Try Try?? Will the overall album sound better mixed as a whole?? The bright side of all this is that even if this reissue sucks, we will still get the Metro DVD! :D

I'm with this guy!:)

Compare the CD versions of Slow Dawn, Lucky 13 and Real Love.

All of those songs sound muddy and blown out, no matter the medium. It's supposed to sound like shit.

I have Judas 0 your point is absolutely true.
...FUCK
I guess I'm just pipe dreaming about a better sounding version of White Spyder :cry:

I was on SP.com in the MII section listening to the two songs posted well..I had to "Snatch" them!
Simply put I want to know if I'm the only person who hears a difference in these and every other source we've ever had for the two songs
Cash Car Star
http://www.mediafire.com/?6m84thlzthwi77p
In My Body
http://www.mediafire.com/?t6n7a1hn75tofny
Okay people tell what you think am I crazy in this case????

Can he remix Real Love without the annoying fuzz?

that is the one song i'm looking forward to the most

its super underrated

Real Love is one of my favourite Smashing Pumpkins songs.

Not saying the rips are of the best quality, but WS is supposed to sound muddy and blown out.

White Spider sounds like the whole mix was made way too hot.

ayo it's all about Try version 1

I was on SP.com in the MII section listening to the two songs posted well..I had to "Snatch" them!
Simply put I want to know if I'm the only person who hears a difference in these and every other source we've ever had for the two songs
Cash Car Star
http://www.mediafire.com/?6m84thlzthwi77p
In My Body
http://www.mediafire.com/?t6n7a1hn75tofny
Okay people tell what you think am I crazy in this case????

It's the Q101 source; you're probably used to the Virgin one.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/daglIVFa02U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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now that billy's dead his masterpiece will finally come to light!

Unlock the catacombs!!! Unleash the ghosts!!!

EAT UR PEAS
COSMIC CAKE

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http://i.imgur.com/sQMRWQ7.png

Speaking of Machina songs >>>

...listen to Jimmy's fill at 2:54...daaaaaaamn!

Direct link >>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clmnWeS2eQU#t=2m54s

Full performance of "Home":

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/clmnWeS2eQU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lisa still gives me a boner.

are you milhouse?

Lisa still gives me a boner.

I'd fuck her tight vagina.

Eight year olds, dude.

Their username are chucklescrotum and vajohna (va-gina - get it ! HAHAHAHAHA!).

I think that gives an insight into their mentality. Aka: borderline retarded

Sound logic.

Thanks. I'm into mexican chicks and unibrows.

Great performance of "Lucky 13" >>>

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ruyfEpLs4b8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm just gonna go ahead and call it right now. I bet with this reissue we don't get the whole Metro show, but just select songs, both in audio and video.

seriously motherfuckers still care about the metro show

I'm just gonna go ahead and call it right now. I bet with this reissue we don't get the whole Metro show, but just select songs, both in audio and video.

Fuck fuck fuck shut up

That's the most irritating possible way Billy could do this.

I got over the final Metro show a long time ago but you would expect it with the reissue of Machina, Right?

seriously motherfuckers still care about the metro show

I got over the final Metro show a long time ago but you would expect it with the reissue of Machina, Right?

I could care less about the metro show what I want is the GATMOG mixes

I could care less about the metro show what I want is the GATMOG mixes

I had to google GATMOG, Don't care about that shit man. All I care about is a good album. Out of all of these reissues, Adore and Machina have been the ones I've been looking forward to the most. The Machines of God shit is just stupid. hah.

I had to google GATMOG, Don't care about that shit man. All I care about is a good album. Out of all of these reissues, Adore and Machina have been the ones I've been looking forward to the most. The Machines of God shit is just stupid. hah.

You realize he is talking about the totally different versions of the songs used in the cartoons right?

I hope there's plenty of Arising tour material.

It's extremely unlikely that the entire Metro show would be released with this, but I'd be content with just the Silverfuck from that show.

You realize he is talking about the totally different versions of the songs used in the cartoons right?

I don't man, Sorry, Not the fan I thought I was :-p X

http://thepumpkins.net/music/240-music-glass-and-the-machines-of-god-remixes
listen to In My Body....its fucking wonderful

In my body has always been one of my m2 tracks. Love that chord sequence.

Interview from 2000 >>>

Billy:
"This will make you feel better. We've taped the last...maybe 300 shows...and there's tons of demos and unreleased songs...and we're still gonna do some more recording before we break up so...you'll be sick of us in 10 years. We'll put out more music in the next 10 years than we did in the last."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V7AIeHnUGX0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>)

I hope there's plenty of Arising tour material.

Eat your peas.

Cosmic cake.

http://www.smashingpumpkinsnexus.com/#!MACHINA-REISSUE-UPDATE/c7ba/EC3E5E0E-6CC1-49AF-9118-A5CD1BEB6FE0

“I’m also not opposed to asking current artists to participate, singing songs as such on the compositions meant for other character’s voices,” Billy adds.

http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/meh.ro5925.jpg

http://www.smashingpumpkinsnexus.com/#!MACHINA-REISSUE-UPDATE/c7ba/EC3E5E0E-6CC1-49AF-9118-A5CD1BEB6FE0



https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCLfqPYaCvV3pDc&w=484&h=253&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn2%2Ft1.0-9%2Fq71%2Fs720x720%2F10268597_272515106261281_2518 787953808969712_n.jpg


MACHINA REISSUE UPDATE
May 23, 2014

Looking forward to the eventual reissue of a restored and recompiled MACHINA, work has begun on transfers from the original 24 track tapes, as well as a host of select live shows. The effort will be unprecedented for Smashing Pumpkins et al, as Billy Corgan has indicated plans to put the album not only in it’s original and intended double/triple album sequence, but has designs on commissioning new remixes of all materials as well. The intention he says is clear: to present MACHINA in the original form in which it was written; or in his words, ‘as a theatrical narrative.’


Other possibilities of coalescing the story exist: including the addition of extant materials such acoustic alternates, re-contextualized soundtrack pieces, and use of spoken word to create an immersive experience.”


“I’m also not opposed to asking current artists to participate, singing songs as such on the compositions meant for other character’s voices,” Billy adds. “Finishing what the band started so long ago, and we just didn’t have the strength to end.”

I never understand the whole "how it was meant to be" thing with Machina. Why was the album released the way it was originally? And what kind of narrative does that album portray if it's not a double/triple album like it was "supposed" to be?

It feels like instead of acknowledging that it was a weak album with a weak concept, Billy's always blamed the record company for not having faith in him to release something extravagant. Now he finally gets to release it how he wanted to and he's still pretending that it's not because it's a weak album.

I don't want any of that story bullshit. Just give me more of those sexy soundboard concerts please.

And for Christ's sake, release the Adore reissue already.

This is going to be a disaster.
oh well. we still have the original machina I & II as they were.

Kid A was leaked and that is one of Radiohead's most successful albums.

I realise that SP's record company were against a double album. The album and the concept suffers from an idea that was not (and still isn't) fully realised, which went ahead anyway. It's one of those things that ideally should have been abandoned, but obviously Billy realised the band was breaking up and wanted to get one last album out no matter what.

Personally, I'm not a fan of double albums and I am even less of a fan of "concept" albums anyway.

"Machina" was a difficult album to get into. And part it was that the concept felt a bit amputated, on first listen I certainly didn't get the whole "Zero turns into Glass who front a band that used to be called The Smashing Pumpkins but is now the Machines of God" etc. etc. And that may or may not have been more clear if it was put together in the manner Corgan is suggesting now. That little spoken word section of Glass and the ghost children" was always both moody and helpful in terms of making the record a bit more cohesive.

So I am honestly looking forward to this and it seems everyone will get to pick their own version of The re-issue: one that is everything cleaned up a bit and one that is everything put completely re-contextualized. Everybody wins.

A few tidbits regarding the Machina reissue.

http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/features/32345/Smashing-Pumpkins-Ill-have-the-last-laugh?page=1

April 2012

Our sell-out move, for Machina, is we’re going to remix the whole record and put it in its official sequence the way I’d hoped for in the beginning. I wrote it as a rock opera double album type of thing, so we’re going to remix the whole thing. I’ve already talked to Flood, and he’s been indicating he wants to be involved with that part of the process, and then we’ll finally finish the album, the way it was meant to be.

Currently Howie Weinberg and Howard Willing are already in the producer and mastering boat. What are the chances he'll really get Flood?

i hate that they caved and let howie master adore. all of the extra discs that he's done have been absolutely terrible.

Some of his machina ideas sound awful.

But honestly, why is he announcing machina reissue news when he hasn't even announced a date for Adore? I don't think any of the previous reissues had him stringing everyone along like this.

i hate that they caved and let howie master adore. all of the extra discs that he's done have been absolutely terrible.

Bob Ludwig remastered "Adore". Weinberg must have been working on the extras.

Really? In one of Billy's posts I thought he said howie mastered the actual album this time. I haven't seen any mention of Ludwig since TAFH

“I’m also not opposed to asking current artists to participate, singing songs as such on the compositions meant for other character’s voices,” Billy adds.

That is the one part of his quote that got me nervous. I'm mighty opposed to Tommy Lee (or, to be more practical: Sierra Swan) singing between polished Machina tracks.

While I could definitely go for a firm date/more info on Adore, I don't doubt that it is happening for sure. Still not gonna get too excited about Machina until it actually shows up for sale: just sounds like a big undertaking.

Originally Posted by Billy Corgan
“I’m also not opposed to asking current artists to participate, singing songs as such on the compositions meant for other character’s voices,” Billy adds.

>>>

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billy just needs to cut the crap.. I mean, the only thing I was even looking forward to in the machina reissue was some arising footage being released, since I'm pretty sure all of the shows were recorded.. but I'm not sure we'll be getting any of that.

billy needs to get it in his head that nobody cares about the machina storyline anymore, or whatever concept/rock opera he wants to make out of it. it was a bad and weak idea in the first place, it seems as if he came up with it just because he knew the band was gonna end (in late 1998) and he wanted them to have some kind of spectacular-triple album-rock opera-concept ending in which the band would have to act the exaggerated versions of themselves (as they were portrayed in the media), just because...... he wanted to.
and he wanted to do such a thing - forgetting that there's no way his record company will let him after the poor sales of adore.. that completely ruined the already weak concept, what added more was the departure of d'arcy midway through the recording of the album and the band (besides billy) being completely disinterested in the concept..
all of that just caused to the band to end in a way billy didn't hope to, without them making a last big record.. instead, he made half a record, which was a commercial failure, then released the other half online for free, without anyone understanding whatever the fuck the concept actually was, and the band disintegrated leaving billy disappointed, so he could once again blame everyone else for his failure.

so what makes him think people will actually be interested to see a concept album (which was ruined a long time ago) in its "true form"? especially whan half of the 'concept' is missing (the band playing the characters and all that shit)..

By the way...this would have been interesting >>>

wow...10 years since the 'last' old SP break-up show...how time flies...i'll post some reflections on that show on here later today. hope everyone is having a GREAT day...going to the ocean now to say my prayers and make amends xo

first thing that comes to mind is that we only had about 6 days to prepare the about 14 or so extra songs that we added to try to make the show both historic and memorable. normally this much work in such a short time would have been met with resistance, but everyone was in good spirits to have the 11 months of touring finally over. my original plan was to book the metro out for the whole month of January and make one last album, writing songs and recording them live in rehearsal and then playing them at night at the 'shows'...can't remember how many shows we would have done per week? maybe 3 or 4. Iha+ Auf Der Maur hated the idea and said no.... a shame, could have been amazing. band was tight at that point and i was motivated to write more.

Source:
http://billycorgan.livejournal.com/45048.html

“I’m also not opposed to asking current artists to participate, singing songs as such on the compositions meant for other character’s voices,” Billy adds.



Don't you fucking dare. I've not waited this long for you to fix Machina only to make it worse.

Seriously

Don't you fucking dare. I've not waited this long for you to fix Machina only to make it worse.

That's what happens when you get your hopes up for a Billy project. Set your expectations as low as possible and... well... you'll still get disappointed, but less so.

He's the alt rock George Lucas.

He's also the Jim Morrison of Generation X

Don't you fucking dare. I've not waited this long for you to fix Machina only to make it worse.

And by "asking current artists to participate" he means Sierra Swan and Tommy Lee.

That's what happens when you get your hopes up for a Billy project. Set your expectations as low as possible and... well... you'll still get disappointed, but less so.

True, I was pleasantly surprised by TAFH.

And by "asking current artists to participate" he means Sierra Swan and Tommy Lee.

Oh god no.

everytime i listen to machina it just screams "unfinished" to me. i think this is the right route even though i'm highly skeptical he'll go through with all that

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCLfqPYaCvV3pDc&w=484&h=253&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn2%2Ft1.0-9%2Fq71%2Fs720x720%2F10268597_272515106261281_2518 787953808969712_n.jpg

I hate how he called himself W.P.C it is infuriating

MEMORABILIA MONDAYS: MACHINA 2 (25/25)

July 1, 2014

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e56f8f_818e3521a2374c0192c71b2132d946bc.jpg_srz_p_ 452_255_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

From Billy: "This true copy of the entire Machina 2 set was procured, as best as I can tell, by sale from the fan I'd sent it to; and is the copy from which the initial bootlegs were culled from. But as was custom to that era that same fan also betrayed other confidences by letting out other materials that I'd asked him to keep; costing in effect confidences from others far more innocent. Which explains the availability of certain materials, and how Machina 2 as a project did not come out sequentially as I'd asked.

There are other copies, of course, 24 of them, one of which is in the possession of my friend Robert Smith; who's music has inspired me so. And last I heard the Q101 copy (a local Chicago radio station) may be once more offered for sale. The last listing if I recall set at around 10,000$US.

Lastly, I look forward to reuniting Machina 1+2 next year, with which we'll probably offer this set as a reissue amongst other materials.

What "other materials" is he referring to? Machina II wasn't leaked the same time as anything else, was it?

In the Arms of Sheep

#topsecret

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e56f8f_818e3521a2374c0192c71b2132d946bc.jpg

thats some killer blotter duude

Do we know which fan he is talking about?

rat bastard quinto

pretty sure its not quinto. "other materials" that were released likely refers to stuff like the FAEOMM tape and Machina acoustic demos...

Ahhh good old WPC nothing but grand over the top plans and nailing himself to the cross as he screams about his betrayers since 1994.

Oh and the Robert Smith name drop for no reason at all, just sends it over the top.

Oh and the Robert Smith name drop for no reason at all, just sends it over the top.

Seriously

I have this vision in my head of Robert Smith using his copy of Machina ii to prop up a shaky table.

I'd love to see one of those flash movies where Billy shows up at Robert Smiths house and it gets all awkward when Billy asks Robert where he keeps it.

I have this vision in my head of Robert Smith using his copy of Machina ii to prop up a shaky table.

I'd love to see one of those flash movies where Billy shows up at Robert Smiths house and it gets all awkward when Billy asks Robert where he keeps it.

"ummm yea mate its just ummmm uhhhhh... ...its right over ummmm... well i could have sworn i put it over.... well you see i recently had this redecorated and i umm..."

"also remember that time i phoned in vocals for that bee gees cover? what the fuck were we thinking?"

pretty sure its not quinto. "other materials" that were released likely refers to stuff like the FAEOMM tape and Machina acoustic demos...

He instructed FAEOMM to be leaked though, didn't he? I don't think the acoustic demos were obtained or leaked with permission.

Fix the micropenis porblem Pakooler

wasn't too hard to find

The Machina acoustic demos has an interesting story behind it. Phil aka Mayfair aka Honeyspider told me over sushi one day a long time ago.

Some hockey player was pallin' 'round with Bolly in his big purple house. Billy gave the guy's kid a random cassette tape from a messy boxful of cassettes. Some sort of gift/gesture. The thing is, this kid didn't even like the Pumpkins. Here's where my memory gets hazy...Phil was friends with a friend of this kid. Phil's friend loved SP, and conspired to obtain this tape from the ingrate. This guy, is who leaked the cassette, although I think Phil helped a bit and wanted some credit, too, but alas, no.
/ramble

Kinda funny how Bill would hand a random tape of unreleased tracks to some kid, like anybody other than a fanatic or pro-bootlegger would care.

PS. I love the machina acoustic demos

I was contacted about "some tape" that I should hear. This was after the whole Marked tapes fiasco.

Girl had this tape, had gotten it from a "hockey player". Said it was stuff that wasn't out there. She sent it to me, I gave it to Todd to rip. He put it out for everyone.

that's the story, as best as I can remember from like 9 years ago. God, I was in high school back then. Seems like forever ago.

wasn't too hard to find

The hockey player part is accurate. The kid picking a random tape out of box is not the story I know.

They way I remember hearing it, the hockey player had a daughter who was a fan and Billy gave her the tape.

Knowing what we know about Billy I don't think there is anyway in hell he would ever just let someone grab a random tape out of his demos.

Do we know which fan he is talking about?

well, don't they say it's number 25 (out of 25)? doesn't that give us a clue?
where's that list?

StArSeEd> that's Q101's alright.
StArSeEd> WXRT's is 20
ninjaprsn> StArSeEd: where did you get the numbers from?
StArSeEd> dahl's is 23, agnew's is 24, asselin's is 25
StArSeEd> shanahan's is 8
StArSeEd> corgan sr's is 7
StArSeEd> matuzak's is 6
StArSeEd> flood's is 5

pmack!

pretty sure its not quinto. "other materials" that were released likely refers to stuff like the FAEOMM tape and Machina acoustic demos...

maybe he means stuff like mashed potatoes and avalon.

btw, let's not forget how monty made a hideout leak thread. is bc aware of that?

the leaked hideout stuff wasn't stolen from BC, and he isn't the person keeping it off LMA either (hint)

if this is indeed pmack's copy, do you think he's pissed off that someone sent the details to bc? wouldn't one assume he'd only sell this on the condition that the new owner doesn't go around showing it off, in an attempt to avoid getting any shit about selling it?
or has he moved on so far from sp that he couldn't care less at this point? that wouldn't actually surprise me.

do you think bc already knew this copy had been sold (who knows how long ago), or did he only find out recently, when the details of this copy were sent to that memorabilia thing?

how many times would this have been sold? only once? or would there have been a whole string of owners by now? this could also explain why the current owner came forward: there's no direct connection to the receiver anymore.

maybe the same source of the 2007 leaks.... QAOS & Adore demos II

maybe the same source of the 2007 leaks.... QAOS & Adore demos II

Did anyone ever find out the story behind these?

what makes you think so, t&t? do you believe bc gave those to someone?

wasn't qaos (and maybe adore demos II too) stolen from library of congress? or is that not what actually happened?

on qaos: the story i heard, which may or may not be BS, is that a major old school trader leaked it

I'm about 90% sure QAOS was simply swapped out of the LoC, I'm pretty sure I even know who did it but will never say anything more about that.

As far as the Pmac stuff. At one point I think it was at the time of that fake Towers Of Rabble leak there was tons of information posted about this period and what was going on with Billy and the uber leet. I've tried searching for these threads on here numerous times and they are gone.

This all went down way before the QAOS leek and I'm pretty sure MP has nothing to do with any of this. This also all went down way before Avalon was placed on my hard drive to put up on the Traders Den.

Whatever Corgy is going off about happened long before Zwan and Quinto. I'm pretty sure this is what opened the door for Quinto.

I think at one point I knew what happened but it's all so foggy and lost in the past.

There was tons of shit going, and I'm pretty sure Billy was intentionally fucking with people and playing games. I always had the feeling stuff like Avalon was both a test and him just having fun fucking around with the traders and causing rifts and tension. Somewhere Billy talked about this period and how he was purposely screwing around to see how he could distribute things. This all culminated with Mii.

I'm about 90% sure QAOS was simply swapped out of the LoC, I'm pretty sure I even know who did it but will never say anything more about that.



This is true... I was in touch with someone who was planning it.

(Edit: or had already done it, and was just figuring out how to leak it anonymously.)

balls of steel

it was supposed to be a double album originally, he wants to resequence it as such

StArSeEd> that's Q101's alright.
StArSeEd> WXRT's is 20
ninjaprsn> StArSeEd: where did you get the numbers from?
StArSeEd> dahl's is 23, agnew's is 24, asselin's is 25
StArSeEd> shanahan's is 8
StArSeEd> corgan sr's is 7
StArSeEd> matuzak's is 6
StArSeEd> flood's is 5

For note. I have the following information on the 25 copies:

1 SP
2 SP
3 SP
4 SP
5 Flood
6 Melissa Matuzak
7 Corgan Snr.
8 Joe Shanahan
9 ?
10 ?
11 Gregory Sylvester
12 ?
13 ?
14 ?
15 ?
16 ?
17 ?
18 ?
19 WXQX Q101 / Ebay
20 WXRT
21 ?
22 ?
23 Karl Daher
24 Eric Agnew
25 Dave Asselin

Other info:
Gooch
Tigershorty / sp.com Webmaster
3 copies weren't given out

For note. I have the following information on the 25 copies:

1 SP
2 SP
3 SP
4 SP
5 Flood
6 Melissa Matuzak
7 Corgan Snr.
8 Joe Shanahan
9 ?
10 ?
11 Gregory Sylvester
12 ?
13 ?
14 ?
15 ?
16 ?
17 ?
18 ?
19 WXQX Q101 / Ebay
20 WXRT
21 ?
22 ?
23 Karl Daher
24 Eric Agnew
25 Dave Asselin

Other info:
Gooch
Tigershorty / sp.com Webmaster
3 copies weren't given out

We need to add Robert Smith to that list now.

Fucking tigershorty, what a bitch.

Doesn't Leno have a copy? Remember he called it the, "biggest CD" he'd ever seen?

no, he didn't own it. they just handed him a copy (or an empty sleeve, even) to show on telly, but he didn't get to keep it.

Comedy doesn't pay.

He should have sent one to Bowie since he lifted the entire "concept" from him.

This is perhaps one of the most prized collector items in all of Pumpkin land. The seller claims to be shipping from Villa Park, Illinois. And we did happen to notice a Metro sheet of paper which has got us wondering if this is in fact the copy the Metro had been given. We will keep you up to date as we find out more.

Perhaps this is the most dynamic thing we have seen the Pumpkins do since Jimmy would come out and play guitar on 1979 or in the small clip during Mayonnaise in Vieuphoria where we see Billy playing drums and later he would play the timpani in 2008.

We have heard from sources, that the item is from Q101. But the seller openly reports that there is no number on it, going on to say “The only things numbered are what I took photos of which are the album sequence. Thanks for your interest.”

If this is the one that Billy just posted about, then maybe he got the original owner wrong.

this is not the copy billy just posted about. this is the copy that appeared on ebay a couple of years ago.

Do we know which fan he is talking about?

Based on the reference to the initial Machina II distribution, that appears to be Eric Agnew, who made copies available through the SPIFC. Not the best quality, and the speed was a little off, but Eric was able to get the material out to the fans in time for the fall 2000 European tour, as he was instructed to do by Billy himself. Eric appears to have fallen out of favor, probably due to the leak of Mashed Potatoes or the Avalon show or something.

As far as the hint of "other materials" to come, my first thought was the "final" Metro show DVD, of course. But it could also be Zwan or Chicago songs.

Which maybe turns me to talk of the next, and last in the series from the Virgin years: MACHINA, with the deeper work beginning next week to cull together all the many parts. For that I’ve already tabbed Howard Willing to do the mixing, with me beside him, to try to bring out the dark, metallic, and muscular album #1 that lays buried beneath all the hazy insanity, and bring #2 into line. Expect a very, very different and illuminating work.
<a>

So they're remixing it, not just remastering?

Wow.

dark, metallic, and muscular

That's not what I want. I want it to sound like the Raindrops demo or like the Arising tour. dammit.

those things describe each other you're nuts

I'm excited about the remixing and hope they don't brickwall the shit out of it. The main albums for the reissues have been mastered very well so it gives me hope they will do these right. I think remixing was the way to go with these albums to give them more of a cohesive sound.

I'm hoping for separate single CD releases of Machina I, Machina II (no EPs/bsides), and a super deluxe version with both Machina 1 and 2, demos, alt. versions, bsides, remixes, live, etc.

I'm excited about the remixing and hope they don't brickwall the shit out of it. The main albums for the reissues have been mastered very well so it gives me hope they will do these right. I think remixing was the way to go with these albums to give them more of a cohesive sound.

I'm hoping for separate single CD releases of Machina I, Machina II (no EPs/bsides), and a super deluxe version with both Machina 1 and 2, demos, alt. versions, bsides, remixes, live, etc.

You're the biggest moron on here, why do you think Mr. Corgan would listen to you?

The muscular songs on this album, from this era, were grating.

Swap out Everlasting Gaze for Slow Dawn.

HMM, BSBT, Crying Tree for LMGTWTY, Vanity, Home & Real Love.

Machina would've been a much better album.

The muscular songs on this album, from this era, were grating.

oh man

great call

but it was bill listening to buttrock and going "oh man this'll sell"

You're the biggest moron on here, why do you think Mr. Corgan would listen to you?

I disagree, I think you are.

Billy listening to me, what are talking about?

I've come to love Machina more over the years. I didn't really like it or Adore much when I was first getting into SmashPump...except for a few tunes. But now after hearing it in context with Machina II I love it.

You'll go mad like Glass!

shatterin fast i'm glass i'm glass

shatterin fast i'm glass i'm glassI hate that song

The muscular songs on this album, from this era, were grating.

Swap out Everlasting Gaze for Slow Dawn.

HMM, BSBT, Crying Tree for LMGTWTY, Vanity, Home & Real Love.

Machina would've been a much better album.

Totally agree with you about the heavier and darker songs. When I used to make alternate tracklistings of Machina, I think the only heavy song I had was Lucky 13, the rest were all the pretty songs.

There's also Speed Kills and This Time.

i dunno the heavy version of atom bomb is pretty excellent

The muscular songs on this album, from this era, were grating.

Swap out Everlasting Gaze for Slow Dawn.

HMM, BSBT, Crying Tree for LMGTWTY, Vanity, Home & Real Love.

Machina would've been a much better album.

Do you really think opening the album with Slow Dawn would be/was better than opening it with TEG? :confused:

Do you really think opening the album with Slow Dawn would be/was better than opening it with TEG? :confused:

hell yes nigga

yeah, slow dawn is a blatant lead single

RE: Slow Dawn

Has anyone else noticed that as time went on, Jimmy started playing on the hihat more during songs? It's especially prevalent in Zeitgeist.

I didn't notice that.. but he was the drummer, so I guess he knows what best suits the songs.

C: I guess the flip side of that is for the Machina reissue, you’ve said that you want to release it the way it was intended. What does that entail or sound like?

BILLY CORGAN: Right. It was originally written as a sort of rock opera double album and the internal band politics being what it was at the time and the way the record company was acting, I just kind of bailed on that. I just put out what was Machina I, which was a compromise, almost like a compilation of the ideas which unfortunately didn’t even feature the best ideas of the two albums. It was almost like if you were making two movies and then in the middle you were like, “Fuck it” and cut one movie out of the footage. Then later you went, “Well why did I leave that scene out?” It kind of makes sense without making any sense to me.

I think I reacted to the situation internally and externally poorly. I feel the album was in some ways a reflection of that. It had a lot of confusion around it. I didn’t do a good job of dealing with what I was dealing with emotionally as far as what was going on with the band.

So the idea is that we kind of finish the album, as best as can be said. To add a little bit of context to that, I think I’m going to try to finish the album as if I was finishing it today, not as if I was trying to finish it in 2000. I’m not going to try to finish a point that probably wasn’t worth making in 2000, but with hindsight, new technologies, and different ways of cutting things up and stitching it all together I think I’ll be able to make kind of a new director’s cut of the album. That’s probably the best way to explain it. Both albums together.


C: So that will in.clude Machina II as well?

BILLY CORGAN: Yeah. The Machina II album that was put on the internet through fans, those are all just rough mixes. Every one of those mixes took like an hour, they didn’t get any kind of star treatment. In some ways fans have complained over the years that Machina I is overproduced, which is a fair argument, and that Machina II is decidedly underproduced. So maybe with technology being what it is today we can find a balancing point between the two ideas and the murkiness of the whole project can become clearer. That’s my intention.
http://chicagoist.com/2014/08/15/interview_billy_corgan.php

BILLY CORGAN: ... fans have complained over the years that Machina I is overproduced, which is a fair argument, and that Machina II is decidedly underproduced. So maybe with technology being what it is today we can find a balancing point between the two ideas ...

That sounds promising to me.

what interests me the most; does he plan on incorporating the material from the machina II EPs into the reissue? I'm pretty sure most of those songs are related to the concept..

http://chicagoist.com/upload/2011/10/101911-SHAYvault-2.jpg

He thinks he is driving a car in the picture . . . a car to nowhere...

OOOH!!! "ReImagined Crying Tree heavy tamborine mix 2014"!!!!!!!!!!!

this is the most stoked i've been about anything SP in like forever

what interests me the most; does he plan on incorporating the material from the machina II EPs into the reissue? I'm pretty sure most of those songs are related to the concept..

go back to the o-board

go back to the o-boardi don't give two shits about the concept just to be clear
I only care about the songs.. and that's it.

also, I never registered to the o-board. too many dumb fucks. I remember someone saying soundgarden are/were an irrelevant band (after chris cornell dissed the post-reunion SP or something)
after that I just flipped and never went there again

it's the redundancy in seperating machina ii and the ep's that i remember being prevalent on the o-board. it's the same dang thing.

Machina II has always started with Slow Dawn and ended with Atom Bomb for me. It's not that frikkin' difficult to listen to an album.

To add a little bit of context to that, I think I’m going to try to finish the album as if I was finishing it today, not as if I was trying to finish it in 2000. I’m not going to try to finish a point that probably wasn’t worth making in 2000, but with hindsight, new technologies, and different ways of cutting things up and stitching it all together I think I’ll be able to make kind of a new director’s cut of the album.
Ugh fuck you.

which is the awesome one where it kicks in with the huge crash cymbal and the guitar that sounds like it was recorded on the surface of the sun?


Oh that one? thats actually called Saturnyne.

hey arent you gonna hit me with a "fuck you!"??? Im counting on it, Pootz!

Trolling?
If not, there are 2 versions of Saturnine - the Adore outtake and the one from Machina II, Saturn9.

Pootsy:

Machina II:
3. Saturnine - "Saturn9"

As there was no tracklist included with the release, song titles are given as their standard name, and some were given additional descriptive comments in parentheses by SPFC. A press release issued later includes slightly different versions of the song titles, which are given in quotes as appropriate.

Adore reissue:
Disc 4, 9. Saturnine (For Piano and Voice)
Disc 5, 11. Saturnine (Matt Walker Reimagined/2014)

the Machina II album that was put on the internet through fans, those are all just rough mixes. Every one of those mixes took like an hour, they didn’t get any kind of star treatment.

but this is my favorite thing about m2 :(

Basically all of the different names arose from the fact that the album didn't come with a tracklist as such. A lot of the songs had been played live or different versions released before Machina II.

I believe Eric Agnew was the first to rip and leak it, and took it upon himself to christen the songs that he already knew about with parentheses like (Spacey)

The radio station Q101 made a limited run of CDs from their own copy, Virgin (I think?) made promo CDs from theirs, and the SP Internet Fan Club ripped a copy too. These all had varying titles for some of the songs. At some point there was a press release with "official" titles, but as you can see, people still use all different kinds of versions. Once the Machina reissue comes out, people are probably still going to use whatever titles they've been using all along.

but this is my favorite thing about m2 :(

Same. It's really disappointing how much shit Machina II gets for its sound. I really like it.

Machina II is probably my second favourite SP album after Siamese Dream.

everyone always complains about the noisy production of white spider and Real Love. i love them that way. it's an original take on the wall of fuzz for the year 2000. I still love it.

in white spider, is that a drum machine?

The German version is SaturNEIN.

white spyder is awesome but real love is a top 20 SP song

Real Love is top 5

Those vocals at the climax.

Goosebumps

the songwriting itself is phenomenal. i really started appreciating it when i was learning to play it.

all the lyrics are amazing... maybe my favorite is:

In the eyes, behold, and you'll find the 21st century
You detonate her will and her widowed speech
Buried in the backyard shadow, the rusty coffee tin
That held her mother's first kiss in a nameless dream


The performance is great, I like how the chorus is non-linear and doesn't resolve neatly and when it turns into the ending with that build up it's just perfect.

Okay top 10.

Yeah those lines really jump out at me.

I think it's like the perfect combination of SP elements in a lot of ways

I love real love
I remember being hooked on it after I first heard it

but again, I'd still like to hear what a clearer mix of the song sounds like..

The wall of sound is perfect on there.

The 'mother's first kiss' lyric creeps me out every time though

I love real love
I remember being hooked on it after I first heard it

but again, I'd still like to hear what a clearer mix of the song song..

I have never heard of this song song, do you have a link please?

search on youtube or get a torrent of Machina II

it's even on archive.org i think

the wall of sound might be kind a turn off at first (was for me), but after a bit it's awesome.

the repetition of the lyric 'real love' works really well in this song.
I always thought it was a stab that billy framed jame's 'go' with real love and LMGTWTY. kind of a ribbing of "i know you wrote a love song, and we'll put it on the album, but we'll put it next to two of the best love songs i've ever written"


listen to some MII here
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Virgin
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Q101
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.SPIFC
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Agnew
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.13


shit do I love that album. best SP album ever.
please don't ruin it with the reissue.

how come billy hasn't tried to release a single off these re-issues? a "here's a song from 15 years ago, available for the first time" and give it a chance to chart? oh yeah, billy doesn't chart anymore?

Can't be living in the pass

Absolutely groundbreaking

What rip is considered the best? Sounds like a tie between Virgin and Q101.

If he can fix the mix on Real Love and White Spider, that'd be great.

I have never heard of this song song, do you have a link please?nah, I must've started typing something and then deleted it and fucked up the whole sentence :rofl:

What rip is considered the best? Sounds like a tie between Virgin and Q101.
I like the agnew rip the best. a little dirty, and the rip was done with a table that's a little faster (~3%), which give the song a faster pace and a higher pitch. That extra boost in frequency makes the songs that much more aggressive in the top end and billy's voice is that extra nasal because of it too. that much more in your face! (which I think was intended by the mix style to start off with)

marge

I like the agnew rip the best. a little dirty, and the rip was done with a table that's a little faster (~3%), which give the song a faster pace and a higher pitch. That extra boost in frequency makes the songs that much more aggressive in the top end and billy's voice is that extra nasal because of it too. that much more in your face! (which I think was intended by the mix style to start off with)I like that one too, for some reasons songs like real love sound a bit clearer when listened from that source

I can't wait for the Machina reissue.

marge

http://i.imgur.com/VnUtbcw.png

http://stupidknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/margarine.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VnUtbcw.png

I've been watching the simpsons marathon.:crazy: :o :beatup:

Homerpalooza...

If on Machina 1 originally, they replaced Crying Tree of Mercury with M2 Let me give the world to you, and replace Blue Skies with Blue Skies Version 1.....

Would be nice to get a newer, hi-res rip of II.

And Real Love is the best.

Hey i just saw the machina reissue post has like 300,000 views. the Adore reissue has like 70,000 views. I guess people are more interested in the Machina resissue than the adore?! Interesting . . .

I'm all about Adore and can't wait for the box set to be in my hands. The first box set purchased from these reissues. I do plan on picking up Aeroplane and Mellon Collie next. Those were the reissues that I was most interested in.

Hey i just saw the machina reissue post has like 300,000 views. the Adore reissue has like 70,000 views. I guess people are more interested in the Machina resissue than the adore?! Interesting . . .

This thread is older, there are also more threads about the Adore reissue

weren't some demos leaked in that machina thread? that might explain it.

Hey i just saw the machina reissue post has like 300,000 views. the Adore reissue has like 70,000 views. I guess people are more interested in the Machina resissue than the adore?! Interesting . . .

why would anybody care about a techno reissue

why would anybody care about a techno reissue

eh????

Billy once called Adore a techno album (before it was released) - there you go, joke explained and thus ruined....fucking n00bs ;)

ARCANE NIGHT MUSIC

machina outsold adore

isn't that interesting!?

machina outsold adore

isn't that interesting!?

What is interesting is that isn't true.

Billy once called Adore a techno album (before it was released) - there you go, joke explained and thus ruined....fucking n00bs ;)

I remember someone (it may have even been here) heard the last 30 seconds of Daphne Descends on the radio and described it as sounding like a techno song before the album came out and everyone started flipping the fuck out.

adore 3.1 mil worldwide
machina 1.8 mil worldwide

http://uturncrossfit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/image.jpg

Whatever when is Zwan coming out?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/yassKn6SBRA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

probs after machina if ever