so we all know billy made a point of continually talking about how much he hated lollapalooza in 1994, for years later even. we've all heard billy's story but it was never clear to me why they hated it so much. billy said they were pressured in some ways to conform to the rest of the bands? but of course he probably blew most of it out of proportion.

does anyone know what other people on the tour thought about the pumpkins, and how much truth there is to the idea that billy was just really bratty the whole time? i want to know why he hated it so much, and why other people might have disliked them...

those are mysteries so deep you shall never fathom them

I thought he said they did it because they wanted to be part of something with that much energy which was something they saw as special. They could have made more money touring on their own but they wanted the experience.

There is some interview (don't remember when/where) he sums it up like that

Apparently there was some animosity between Kim Deal of the Breeders and Billy. I've no idea why, though. (I think it had to do with some kind of politics behind who got to play the main stage as headliners and the fact that SP had taken one of the positions first slated for another band or had allegedly gotten them kicked off the roster, etc.) Also he got pissed at the crowds regularly for not paying enough attention to his band when they were playing.

a friend of mine went, he is a non pumpkins fan. well not a non fan, but doesn't care either way. he likes a few songs, but said they sounded like shit

looking back at it now i guess billy was all pissed off that he wasn't playing in front of crowds that worshiped him. oh he's ever been such a sensitive creature

it was 1994. nirvana had been scheduled to headline. instead kurt kobain died. Smashing pumpkins were asked to replace them & headline instead. I'm not sure if SP was even on the bill before april 5th.
Billy invited courtney onto the stage at several shows to speak to the crowds about the loss of kurt. that must have been weird.

Billy only hung out with the Flemions which he strong-armed into the tour. ie, "we won't play if the FROGS aren't invited to play either"


SP were seen as total indie FAKES at that time. SP operated on a big budget but tried to play it cool and DIY. the indie lable caroline front (for virgin) for the release of gish had already turned many people off from the band... (yes people were accusing SP of selling out back in 1991) not many other bands liked SP for pulling stunts like that. the upcoming release of a B-sides album was seen as 100% pretentious capitalist cashing in. other musicians on the tour didn't appreciate billy stepping in and taking the nirvana slot altogether. but that's inevitable music scene politic shit smearing where no obvious solution would have pleased everyone. Some musicians were bold enough to suggest that the nirvana headline slot should have been a tribute slot/memorial. I personally think that would have been super lame.

I was 3

it was 1994. nirvana had been scheduled to headline. instead kurt kobain died. Smashing pumpkins were asked to replace them & headline instead. I'm not sure if SP was even on the bill before april 5th.
Billy invited courtney onto the stage at several shows to speak to the crowds about the loss of kurt. that must have been weird.

Billy only hung out with the Flemions which he strong-armed into the tour. ie, "we won't play if the FROGS aren't invited to play either"


SP were seen as total indie FAKES at that time. SP operated on a big budget but tried to play it cool and DIY. the indie lable caroline front (for virgin) for the release of gish had already turned many people off from the band... (yes people were accusing SP of selling out back in 1991) not many other bands liked SP for pulling stunts like that. the upcoming release of a B-sides album was seen as 100% pretentious capitalist cashing in. other musicians on the tour didn't appreciate billy stepping in and taking the nirvana slot altogether. but that's inevitable music scene politic shit smearing where no obvious solution would have pleased everyone. Some musicians were bold enough to suggest that the nirvana headline slot should have been a tribute slot/memorial. I personally think that would have been super lame.

Crazy. Good info man. I actually didn't really know any of that. I was always confused why it had a caroline logo on the back of Gish instead of the virgin one... That was a pretty hurting move.

http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/articles/spin_4-94.shtml

A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.

"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."

This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.

"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."

"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.

"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"

"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"

"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."

"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."

"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."

"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."

A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."

Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"

"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."

"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."

The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.

"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.

Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.

i always thought that article reeked of bullshit. but i wouldnt be too surprised if it was true

i always thought that article reeked of bullshit. but i wouldnt be too surprised if it was true

Samne here. It seemed like the guy just had a bone to pick with Corgan. You have to notice how he only includes a few sentences that took place over a "half hour" convo. Still humorous nonetheless

Billy only hung out with the Flemions



Isn't there a picture of Billy playing basketball with the Beastie Boys or something?


As far as the Kim Deal thing goes, she said something like "I want the pill he has. The pill that makes you so fucking important."

Isn't there a picture of Billy playing basketball with the Beastie Boys or something?
yes
http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/billy260.jpg

but only because the jock in billy corgan can't be helped...
i'm sure billy blamed the beastie boys for losing the match.
the Deals were probably throwing off his game while cheering for Guided by Voices

well there was the whole pavement fiasco

on the nirvana thing...
http://janesaddiction.org/lollapalooza/
Nirvana officially backed out on April 7 citing a suicide attempt by lead singer Kurt Kobain earlier that spring. Unbeknown to anyone at the time, Kurt had successfully committed suicide two days prior. His body was found on April 8, 1994, the day after the band announced they were dropping out of the Lollapalooza tour.
very weird.

this starla.org (http://www.starla.org/chrono/1994.html) chrono states that Rollingstones magazine (street release date April 21st) announced the Lolapaloza lineup with Nirvana headlining and The Pumpkins would have been the support band,,, but nirvana had already pulled out at this point... so i'm not sure that's conclusive
does anyone have this RS magazine?
I'm curious to know if SP was even on the bill before nirvana pulled. the chronology seems askew and open for lots of shitstorming.

I saw them at Lolla '94 in Montreal. Who knows what was going on backstage - all I know is that the Pumpkins fucking owned the stage. Their sound was massive and the crowd loved them. The Breeders, L7, Nick Cave and the Beasties were all great, but the Pumpkins were rightful headliners (in Nirvana's absence) and delivered the goods.

http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/articles/spin_4-94.shtml

A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.

"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."

This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.

"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."

"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.

"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"

"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"

"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."

"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."

"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."

"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."

A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."

Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"

"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."

"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."

The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.

"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.

Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.
was looking for this the other day.

fucking classic.

http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/articles/spin_4-94.shtml

A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.

"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."

This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.

"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."

"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.

"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"

"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"

"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."

"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."

"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."

"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."

A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."

Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"

"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."

"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."

The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.

"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.

Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.
I saw them on that Big Day Out tour (Feb 5 94).

They were awesome, and if I'm fair, stole Soundgarden's thunder.

an inauspicious omen, that interview was, quoth the jedi master

yes
http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/billy260.jpg

but only because the jock in billy corgan can't be helped...
i'm sure billy blamed the beastie boys for losing the match.
the Deals were probably throwing off his game while cheering for Guided by Voices

You know, I didn't think of this when I posted, but the Flemions were probably the other guys on Billy's team

on the nirvana thing...
http://janesaddiction.org/lollapalooza/

very weird.

this starla.org (http://www.starla.org/chrono/1994.html) chrono states that Rollingstones magazine (street release date April 21st) announced the Lolapaloza lineup with Nirvana headlining and The Pumpkins would have been the support band,,, but nirvana had already pulled out at this point... so i'm not sure that's conclusive
does anyone have this RS magazine?
I'm curious to know if SP was even on the bill before nirvana pulled. the chronology seems askew and open for lots of shitstorming.

I seem to recall hearing somewhere, I'm thinking MTV News, that Nirvana and SP were co-headliners for Lolla that year prior to Kurt's death. I'm not sure how accurate that was though

I was there at 2 shows in Detroit. The show was horrible. Bill made a point to rag on everything the locals held dear. He brought out a dummy and pretended to kill it and called it Bob Seger. He ripped into Ted Nugent, the car industry, the USA, atheists, etc. Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr-VzLRvnK4

NICK CAVE was on this tour? How mindbendingly AWESOME.

I was there at 2 shows in Detroit. The show was horrible. Bill made a point to rag on everything the locals held dear. He brought out a dummy and pretended to kill it and called it Bob Seger. He ripped into Ted Nugent, the car industry, the USA, atheists, etc. Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.

Yeah there's reasons why this band never got the respect it probably deserved. I mean I was annoyed as a 14 year old seeing the MCIS tour and Bill's up there repeatedly complaining that we weren't making enough noise. Now that I'm older I realize that a lot of bands complain about this fact concerning Austin crowds and it's because we're not easily impressed. It generally never works out very well.

But at least he didn't do all of that. Ted Nugent and Bob Seger suck tho but don't tell Detroit. Just be like IGGY POP WOULD ASS RAPE TED NUGENT and then launch into a blistering cover of Search & Destroy.

Coming from the Nirvana board, apparently Nirvana (probably just Kurt) was never 100% with playing headliners. It was announced, I even have an In Utero promo window sticker saying they were headlining. However, apparently Cobain never agreed to it. This is another murder theory by the way. Record company exs mad he backed out and offed him. Dumb theory, but its out there.

KIRK KOBAIN IS STILL ALIFE

Coming from the Nirvana board, apparently Nirvana (probably just Kurt) was never 100% with playing headliners. It was announced, I even have an In Utero promo window sticker saying they were headlining. However, apparently Cobain never agreed to it. This is another murder theory by the way. Record company exs mad he backed out and offed him. Dumb theory, but its out there.

Are you saying Suge Knight killed Kurt, too?

I went to the Saratoga show, was my first concert ever. I was 17 and just graduated from high school. I remember the Beastie Boys and Pumpkins being well above expectation.

Where does the time go...

it all happens at once and we have to process it in a linear fashion

I was there at 2 shows in Detroit. The show was horrible. Bill made a point to rag on everything the locals held dear. He brought out a dummy and pretended to kill it and called it Bob Seger. He ripped into Ted Nugent, the car industry, the USA, atheists, etc. Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.
Why the hell does he have these episodes where he makes a show of wigging out when there's been no apparent provocation? I mean, what was the fucking point of that. Not that I necessarily disagree about what he was shitting on...but why? Would the term for this kind of thing be "premeditated displacement?"

And yeah, it would make sense if the Frogs were the two others in a three-on-three game. God forbid it was D'arcy and James. Jimmy Flemion is really tall, too....so maybe Bolls didn't lose after all.

Bolly was playing with two of the Beasty Boys against three dudes from Guided by Voices.

or so i've gathered.

Why the hell does he have these episodes where he makes a show of wigging out when there's been no apparent provocation?

He's from Chicago and he likes wrestling.

Regarding Lollapalooza 94, I remember there being lots of speculation before the line-up was offically announced that either or both Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins were in discussions to headline, with Nirvana being the preferred choice. Then Kurt Cobain had what many now acknowledge as a failed suicide attempt. A few weeks later the offical Lollapalooza 94 lineup was announced and surprised people by excluding Nirvana. A day or two later Kurt Cobain was found dead.

The Pumpkins were clearly calling the shots on this tour though, from getting their friend Courtney Love time to speak on stage, to the second-stage gig for the Frogs and even playing their own sets on the second stage. I don't recall hearing anything overall negative back then about other bands complaining about them. The other reality of things is that at the time the Pumpkins were the biggest band on the tour so it would have made sense for the organizers to be trying to keep them happy.

wasn't there some talk that billy got pavement kicked off the tour? i could be misremembering however.

Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.

Someone I know who saw one of the Dallas shows claims the same thing - the show was ruined by the apparent noisefest at the end.

copying mbv worked for him most of the time

Someone I know who saw one of the Dallas shows claims the same thing - the show was ruined by the apparent noisefest at the end.

I don't see how you get "noisefest" out of either of those dates, unless you can't deal with silverfuck

pwned by the master

and people who left during old school silverfuck freakouts don't deserve to live

sure they do

I was at the now infamous Randalls Island show on that tour. It is to this day hands down the worst performance I have ever seen put on by a band. Beastie Boys should have been the closing act that year, They would end their set with this insanely amazing version of Sabotage and then we would wait an hour and get cry baby Billy. Billy just has no clue how to handle an audience, I think he purposely designed those setlists to piss off the crowd. It was the same exact shit as the anniversary tour, I'm going to do a half hour psychedelic jam and you better sit there and worship me. If they had come out and just played a fast hard rock set for an hour they would have ruled the festival, but Billy refused to do that, he refused to try to impress a crowd of people that were not his fans.

There is this book, where sonic youth, beck, and courtney love talk about the good times of Lolla, and how Cypress Hill had a huge bong they all ripped:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/342262.Online_Diaries

On the pavement dvd they show clips of them getting pelted with mud in kentucky or something, and how they thought the festival was stupid.

When I saw Yo La Tengo on the freewheelin' tour they joked about Lollapalooza 95, I remember james saying "Open your textbook to page 173 kids, 'The Great Lollapalooza tour of 95! Oh yes..." .. and going on about how that was the first time they felt like rock stars.

I know there is a video clip of GBV, Beasties + Billy playing basketball at Lolla while Stephen Drozd from the flaming lips wheels around on a miniature bicycle or something...truly surreal 90's rock moment... does anyone have it?

I was there at 2 shows in Detroit. The show was horrible. Bill made a point to rag on everything the locals held dear. He brought out a dummy and pretended to kill it and called it Bob Seger. He ripped into Ted Nugent, the car industry, the USA, atheists, etc. Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.

I remember being at those shows and It wasn't anything like what you describe. I don't remember people leaving either. They rocked. As far as Seger and Nugent go, nobody who went to Lollapalooza back then gave a shit about either of those two dinosaurs. Ted Nugent was and is a joke and Bob Seger wasn't far behind. Nobody who was into alternative music back then gave a shit about bob seger or Nugent.

Wasn't as great, though, as the year that the Chili Peppers headlined and everyone tore up the lawn at Pine Knob and threw it at the stage during the Ministry set, and Al Jourgensen threatened to walk off. And everybody lighting shit on fire during the Chili Peppers set.

IMO, each year the Lollapalooza tour went on it got slightly worse, though. I still think the first year with Jane's Addiction was the best.

I remember being at those shows and It wasn't anything like what you describe. I don't remember people leaving either. They rocked.

Wasn't as great, though, as the year that the Chili Peppers headlined and everyone tore up the lawn at Pine Knob and threw it at the stage during the Ministry set, and Al Jourgensen threatened to walk off. And everybody lighting shit on fire during the Chili Peppers set.

IMO, each year the Lollapalooza tour went on it got slightly worse, though. I still think the first year with Jane's Addiction was the best.

People always leave during the headliner no mater what. There is always a large chunk of the audoience that has no interest in the headliner and leaves.

this is what the breeders have to say.
http://www.4ad.com/breeders/ephemera/the-breeders-dig/
check out the lollapalooza diary.

http://downloads.cissme.com/tid/99e0fc04451c6ac21f75cbbee98ef7f9000f8329/egcsbbs/eacllscxi/Autogenerated_derived_image.jpeghttp://downloads.cissme.com/tid/7a12142788d14c2ec4bbd07a69994e7fc2958bd3/egcsbbs/dzratplek/Autogenerated_derived_image.jpeg

http://downloads.cissme.com/tid/e0f59a3625f6a08d985585188f671e015b4cda80/egcsbbs/eacllwrgg/Autogenerated_derived_image.jpeghttp://downloads.cissme.com/tid/618b90f602ba149a6d4ebefcae41aa6c8b15ab2e/egcsbbs/eaclmbfpe/Autogenerated_derived_image.jpeg

http://downloads.cissme.com/tid/d643307537145e685985942b35aa797c19ffa559/egcsbbs/eaclmftyc/Autogenerated_derived_image.jpeg

4 boxes of cereal and a whole roast chicken. Fucking Rock Stars!!!

They let a woman drive the bus?

it was lolla - doing doughnuts in a field to make mud doesn't constitute as "driving" really

i hate how my gf went to lollapalooza a few years back and whenever she refers to it she calls it "lolla" every. single. time.

y'know - as if it were some sort of insider slang that only the people that have actually been there know about.

lol hahahahaha

Grox don't you mean LOLla

heh

well if she talking about it a lot man why she gotta say the whole thing

eh idk we both work in restaurants and agree that abbreviations are mostly unnecessary if not just totally absurd. she contradicts herself a lot though, as 21 yr olds will.

like i hate when spinach dip is called spin dip i can't keep a straight face it's too goofy

like i hate when spinach dip is called spin dip i can't keep a straight face it's too goofy

So you work at TGIF?

no but i remember in like 2002 or 03 when spinach dip was real popular that's when i decided what side of the fence i was on.

i was just using that as my best example. though i do find some occasional pleasure in saying "black chicks" as opposed to "blackened chicken" nowadays

3 black chicks, 2 in the sand all day

2 sweet 1 reg

^ that's my fry count

i was just using that as my best example. though i do find some occasional pleasure in saying "black chicks" as opposed to "blackened chicken" nowadays

yeah boooy i live for that shit

i do it at my terrible office job, the big transportation report is of course a big ******.

I was just listening to the 1994-08-10 wetlands preserve show from soul coughing, and after "screenwriter's blues" they are going "i don't know if anyone went to lollapalooza, but billy corgan, there's a man with a thing to say!" then someone from the crowd goes "fuck you!". mike doughty, while "bus to beelzebub" begins "Hey! Who, me or billy?" :D and then, there's an electronic voice sounding like "both" hahahaha
excellent show btw, to be found on archive.org

ok

I've never seen this interview before >>>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/f-voOfs_1vc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

so much hair

god i hate people chewing gum in interviews.

1994 is like the last time he looked REALLY young though. Even in MCIS era he already started to look like he was about 30(which he was nearly of course) but there he looks like early 20s. I mean you could tell me he's 19 and i'd believe it.

And hey look, stripes!


Also..did he say i know way too much about music? whaddahipster.

so you're saying that he looked his age

so you're saying that he looked his age

Better than saying he looked his shoe size

god i hate people chewing gum in interviews

Like Dave Grohl :dammit:

I was at the now infamous Randalls Island show on that tour. It is to this day hands down the worst performance I have ever seen put on by a band. Beastie Boys should have been the closing act that year, They would end their set with this insanely amazing version of Sabotage and then we would wait an hour and get cry baby Billy. Billy just has no clue how to handle an audience, I think he purposely designed those setlists to piss off the crowd. It was the same exact shit as the anniversary tour, I'm going to do a half hour psychedelic jam and you better sit there and worship me. If they had come out and just played a fast hard rock set for an hour they would have ruled the festival, but Billy refused to do that, he refused to try to impress a crowd of people that were not his fans.

I remember reading your account of the show and i have to say that, even if it's probably more fun to listen to the recording than actually being there because of the weather and all that, I would have liked to attend such a weird performance by the Pumpkins. You were lucky! :) Some versions are quite good, actually, even if it's a mess of a show, especially from "I am One" onwards. Also, I think I would have gladly waited for the Pumpkins - I was never into the Beastie Boys, the one band I don't like on the bill, although I have to say I never got to see them live.

What strikes me, listening to various Lollapalooza recordings, is how disinterested the audiences often sounded:erm:. Maybe it was just exhaustion but there's a "tourist" element to it. I don't blame Billy for being pissed off during some of the shows...

Also, I have a feeling that the PA was not the greatest, did it feel that way, being there ?

I remember reading an article about one of the shows of the tour and the bands had to face rows of empty seats - reserved seating, and people didn't show up (maybe record company people or something?) or just because the most expensive seats did not sell, anyway, not the best way for bands to play and give it all either.

Anyone knows the story behind this surprise appearance on a smaller stage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ENJ7QbrII
Nice to see Jimmy rock a smaller kit than usual.

god i hate people chewing gum in interviews.

1994 is like the last time he looked REALLY young though. Even in MCIS era he already started to look like he was about 30(which he was nearly of course) but there he looks like early 20s. I mean you could tell me he's 19 and i'd believe it.

And hey look, stripes!


Also..did he say i know way too much about music? whaddahipster.

Dart lighting like in that interiew does wonders for a persons looks too.

Was listening to a 2005 fm interview with bill and he says he was taking a lot of pink and blue pills during lolla 94

He might have been tripping on LSD or whatever else during "I am one" on "The Lost 94 tapes". He has these weird eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOBR-O24Z9k&t=5m21s

i think he's just speeding really hard. that tour was all about speed. amphetamines are the only explanation for the i am one rants

This version is really far out...I love it!

so you're saying that he looked his age

?

He was 27 then.

but yeah like fuzzy says, actually i think it's because of the lighting a lot too

i think he's just speeding really hard. that tour was all about speed. amphetamines are the only explanation for the i am one rants

it's like some of you are just completely unfamiliar with the concept of adrenaline

I'm still not convinced of any LSD-tinged performance allegations. In that recent TWIST interview with JC, he maintains that the band never performed while under heavy influence. He said it would have been impossible.

Now, we know that's not 100% true and as always the truth is somewhere in the middle. I'll buy spacecakes or pills but not necessarily acid. But then again wasn't there some old BC quote about how they would take acid and play? mabye that was just for rehearsals?

aaaanyway re: pink and blue pills in the mid 90s i think it's been confirmed through other sources that the blue ones were muscle relaxers so i wouldn't be a bit surprised if the pinkish ones were uppers of some sort. it makes sense. i remember in the 90s seeing things like paxil and ritalin and adderol and all of those are pinkish.

reprise85 might know

it's like some of you are just completely unfamiliar with the concept of adrenaline

Agreed. The band were already playing their shows at breakneck speed in Feb-April.
That type of fatigue is common when a band has a hit record and stays on the road that long. In that April 1994 video, Billy is already complaining about having been on the road for 10 months. Lollapalooza was just an extension of the types of shows the band had already been giving. His dickishness on that tour wasn't any different than the dickishness he was displaying throughout the entire SD tour. That show in Washington DC Nov 1993 comes to mind, where he berates the audience and walks off stage (still a good show, btw).

The fast playing and fatigue at Lollapallooza at the end of the SD tour was no different than the Melon Collie tour. Followed the same pattern too. The early shows were great, the later ones were played at 5 times the speed.

Also worth noting the revisionism that people have about Nirvana, especially the Courtney/Billy thing. First off is that the only people who even knew about Courtney/Billy were random journalists who had looked it up. I guarantee you that 100% of the general Pumpkins fanbase had no idea that they dated, nor cared. As it was, Billy was married during that entire period. And by 1993, nobody thought of Nirvana the same way they did in 1991. In Utero was not looked at as a triumph, because everyone was looking for Nevermind Part II, which they obviously didn't get. Most of the shows on the IU tour didn't sell out, and Kurt certainly wasn't a particularly inspiring entertainer during that period. After Kurt's death, the Pumpkins stepping in for Nirvana wasn't noteworthy beyond it being a matter of organizers replacing one popular band with another popular band. As it was, the Pumpkins were far more buzz-worthy at the time than Nirvana was. Hence why they were even higher in the bill than the Beastie Boys were, who were huge at that time.

Agreed. The band were already playing their shows at breakneck speed in Feb-April.
That type of fatigue is common when a band has a hit record and stays on the road that long. In that April 1994 video, Billy is already complaining about having been on the road for 10 months. Lollapalooza was just an extension of the types of shows the band had already been giving. His dickishness on that tour wasn't any different than the dickishness he was displaying throughout the entire SD tour. That show in Washington DC Nov 1993 comes to mind, where he berates the audience and walks off stage (still a good show, btw).

The fast playing and fatigue at Lollapallooza at the end of the SD tour was no different than the Melon Collie tour. Followed the same pattern too. The early shows were great, the later ones were played at 5 times the speed.

Also worth noting the revisionism that people have about Nirvana, especially the Courtney/Billy thing. First off is that the only people who even knew about Courtney/Billy were random journalists who had looked it up. I guarantee you that 100% of the general Pumpkins fanbase had no idea that they dated, nor cared. As it was, Billy was married during that entire period. And by 1993, nobody thought of Nirvana the same way they did in 1991. In Utero was not looked at as a triumph, because everyone was looking for Nevermind Part II, which they obviously didn't get. Most of the shows on the IU tour didn't sell out, and Kurt certainly wasn't a particularly inspiring entertainer during that period. After Kurt's death, the Pumpkins stepping in for Nirvana wasn't noteworthy beyond it being a matter of organizers replacing one popular band with another popular band. As it was, the Pumpkins were far more buzz-worthy at the time than Nirvana was. Hence why they were even higher in the bill than the Beastie Boys were, who were huge at that time.

revisionist history

b/w

let's blindly speculate

I kind of wanted to pick away at that post but before I knew it I had like 20 bulleted points to make and I mean I just

Basically the gist of what was posted by cookieshoes is either 100% false, or wildly downplayed/ignored by the attention span of time.

the only part i might agree with kind of would be taht bc's behavior at lollapalooza was not an isolated outburst it was obviosly the culmination of overwhelming feelings which he has talked about extensively.

which basically comes down to: bigger crowds = shittier audiences

the only part i might agree with kind of would be taht bc's behavior at lollapalooza was not an isolated outburst it was obviosly the culmination of overwhelming feelings which he has talked about extensively.

Did you see the Pumpkins at Lollapalooza that year?

why what's your angle

why what's your angle

Answer la pregunta.

look friend - everything you said about fatigue and tempo changes (speed) is spot-on and totally true. the rest of it is kind of smeary.

but take this for instance
After Kurt's death, the Pumpkins stepping in for Nirvana wasn't noteworthy beyond it being a matter of organizers replacing one popular band with another popular band.

yes that is technically true but you're also forgetting about the "commercial alternative rock" juggernaut of the time. by default SP managed to nudge out a contender. all that press, all that money, all those magazine covers, all those record sales, all that radio talk -> it was now focused on BC.

Answer la pregunta.

i had a feeling you're not a native english speaker. sorry friend but i think something may be getting lost in translation here.

l
yes that is technically true but you're also forgetting about the "commercial alternative rock" juggernaut of the time. by default SP managed to nudge out a contender. all that press, all that money, all those magazine covers, all those record sales, all that radio talk -> it was now focused on BC.

Again, did you see the Pumpkins at Lollapalooza?

If not, then you have no idea what the "commercial alternative rock" juggernaut of that time was.

i mean yea there were lots of great acts lolla 94 but who really else could have stepped up? what other "nirvana-replacement" was available on the bill? beastie boys don't play guitars?

you wanna make guarantees? i guarantee you that Sp would never had gotten as big as they did had they not been on that bill and switched to headliner in lieu of cobains death. guaran-fucking-tee.

pisces iscariot was supposed to be a greatest hits package to sell more discks and make more money but the band took the cool road and opted to release only all the b-sides and even throw in cooler stuff. there next immediate move is to make a sprawling double-album? then immediately after that release an even huger box set made up of more b-sides? everybody was throwing money at this band and going yes yes yes make it happen.

pearl jam didn't want to play ball.
stp and alice in chains had drug problems.
nin hit it big this year (94) too with their woodstock performance. coincidence? do the math

Again, did you see the Pumpkins at Lollapalooza?

If not, then you have no idea what the "commercial alternative rock" juggernaut of that time was.

yes i have then

yes i have then

In 1994? Which show?

guy - it literally takes two seconds to pull a date out of thin air. what are you gonna grill me for a ticket scan?

i'm not falling for this shit. take care man.

It would be irresposible for us not to speculate

i mean yea there were lots of great acts lolla 94 but who really else could have stepped up? what other "nirvana-replacement" was available on the bill? beastie boys don't play guitars?


That soap opera simply didn't exist back then. The Nirvana vs Pumpkins myth only appeared after Billy started talking about it (and about Courtney) in 1995 and on and on since then. At the time of Lollapalooza, people were excited to see the Pumpkins. Nothing more. The fact that they had replaced Nirvana was an afterthought. The two items were mutually exclusive. This requirement for a "guitar" band didn't exist either, since pretty much every band out there was a guitar band. They could've put any number of bands on the top of the bill. And, by the way, the majority of the Beasties's set at Lollapalooza 1994 was with live instruments. Ad Rock on guitar, Mike D on drums, MCA on bass, and all of the musicians they brought with them. Believe me, people went more apeshit at those shows for the Beastie Boys than they did for the Pumpkins.


you wanna make guarantees? i guarantee you that Sp would never had gotten as big as they did had they not been on that bill and switched to headliner in lieu of cobains death. guaran-fucking-tee.


Well see, now I know you didn't see them back then. The Pumpkins were already huge before Lollapalooza. SD had already gone double platinum pre-Lollapalooza, and the band had already been on every magazine cover there was by then. Today, Disarm, and even Rocket were on the radio constantly. The album and the videos were what made them big. Lollapalooza was just another in a long line of good press for the band.

The release of Landslide off of Pisces did far more for the band than Lollapalooza. That song kept them on the radio for another year. I can't count the number of people who discovered the band from that song.


pisces iscariot was supposed to be a greatest hits package to sell more discks and make more money but the band took the cool road and opted to release only all the b-sides and even throw in cooler stuff. there next immediate move is to make a sprawling double-album? then immediately after that release an even huger box set made up of more b-sides? everybody was throwing money at this band and going yes yes yes make it happen.


There was no "cool" road. Pisces was a cash-grab. No different than Incesticide, or the dozens of other examples that came before it. Standard Music Industry 101. Band gets big, but it's too soon to release a new album, so the band releases b-sides until the next album is ready.


pearl jam didn't want to play ball.
stp and alice in chains had drug problems.
nin hit it big this year (94) too with their woodstock performance. coincidence? do the math

Pearl Jam had already toured with Lollapalooza and had already become out of style with their bitching with Ticketmaster. Eddie Vedder was already annoying as hell by then. STP and Alice in Chains weren't anywhere near the level of conversation. Neither had any of the other grunge or copycat bands.

And, since you brought it up, Nine Inch Nails got big off of the video for "Closer", not from Woodstock 94. Woodstock 94 did more for Green Day than any other band. The video of them getting pelted with mud was on tv all the time.

Woodstock 94 did more for Green Day than any other band. The video of them getting pelted with mud was on tv all the time.

and green day was also called in to to the mainstage of lolla 94 during the second half.

i don't disagree with anything you're saying - just the tunnel-visioned way in which you're saying it - i'm talking about the record companies and the execs who were looking to cash in. the people that make these decisions to "bring in green day" or "have the pumpkins headline"

cobains death represented millions upon millions of dollars of lost revenue.

This requirement for a "guitar" band didn't exist either, since pretty much every band out there was a guitar band. They could've put any number of bands on the top of the bill.


Beastie Boys
George Clinton & the P-Funk All Stars
The Breeders
A Tribe Called Quest
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
L7
Boredoms (first half of tour)
Green Day (second half)

and green day was also called in to to the mainstage of lolla 94 during the second half.

i don't disagree with anything you're saying - just the tunnel-visioned way in which you're saying it - i'm talking about the record companies and the execs who were looking to cash in. the people that make these decisions to "bring in green day" or "have the pumpkins headline"

cobains death represented millions upon millions of dollars of lost revenue.

The Pumpkins were already on the bill before Nirvana dropped out. They didn't need Lollapalooza to make them famous. As it was, the promoters were nervous about not having a real headliner, even with the Pumpkins at the top of the bill.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-06/entertainment/ca-42770_1_kurt-cobain-s-health-problems

"With Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins and the Beastie Boys it was a great package," said Amir Daiza, president of Detroit-based Ritual Promotions. "With Nirvana dropping out it doesn't seem strong, more like last year when there was no real headliner."

do your homework

The Pumpkins were already on the bill before Nirvana dropped out. They didn't need Lollapalooza to make them famous. As it was, the promoters were nervous about not having a real headliner, even with the Pumpkins at the top of the bill.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-06/entertainment/ca-42770_1_kurt-cobain-s-health-problems

"With Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins and the Beastie Boys it was a great package," said Amir Daiza, president of Detroit-based Ritual Promotions. "With Nirvana dropping out it doesn't seem strong, more like last year when there was no real headliner."

that's exactly what i'm saying!

you're trying to compound pumpkins fame = lollapalooza. i never said that.

you're trying to compound pumpkins fame = lollapalooza. i never said that.

^

you wanna make guarantees? i guarantee you that Sp would never had gotten as big as they did had they not been on that bill and switched to headliner in lieu of cobains death. guaran-fucking-tee.
h

i'm not talking about anyything after lollapalooza 94 - i am only talking about lollapalooza 94

i'm not talking about anyything after lollapalooza 94 - i am only talking about lollapalooza 94

Actually, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about regarding either topic.

fair enough - peace

Lots of noobs

I blame MTAE

regardless - if you think this didn't go beyond a just a casual bump in the lineup you're mistaken

After Kurt's death, the Pumpkins stepping in for Nirvana wasn't noteworthy beyond it being a matter of organizers replacing one popular band with another popular band.

I like what you said about Nirvana Cookieshoes - I am a huge fan, but I don't like it when people make them bigger than they actually were. People don't believe me when I say that that maybe 2 shows of the In Utero shows were sold out. (Of course, they still drew big crowds, but the so called "Nirvana phenomenon" was almost on its way out).

Billy said one time that the Pumpkins "were an equal peer of Nirvana" and I think he might be referring to "In Utero" vs "Siamese Dream". The late '93/ early 94 period. If I remember correctly, "In Utero" had "only" sold 1.5 million copies when Kurt died, and "Siamese"(who was released a few weeks before "In Utero") was probably not far behind in early 94 with the success of "Today" (not that everything has to do with sale figures though).

regardless - if you think this didn't go beyond a just a casual bump in the lineup you're mistaken

The promoters had a financial problem on their hands, with only 3 months to go before the tour started. Read the quote from the promoter again. Putting the Pumpkins at the top of the bill was equivalent to not having a real headliner. And that's with the Pumpkins already having a double platinum album.

I like what you said about Nirvana Cookieshoes - I am a huge fan, but I don't like it when people make them bigger than they actually were. People don't believe me when I say that that maybe 2 shows of the In Utero shows were sold out. (Of course, they still drew big crowds, but the so called "Nirvana phenomenon" was almost on its way out).


Yep. That's the way I remember it too. After Kurt's death, suddenly hearing all of these Unplugged songs on the radio was weird, given how much radio had stopped playing the band by then. Even as big a fan as I was at the time, even I didn't feel like going to see them during the IU tour.

Also worth noting that even after Kurt died, you still didn't really hear Nevermind or any more IU songs on the radio. With how much the radio stations were playing Unplugged, it's as if that had been their first album. Much like what happened when Landslide took off for the Pumpkins, and all of a sudden everybody you know is into the band.

poor cookieshoes, his favorite band became popular and he couldn't like them anymore
http://i.imgur.com/wft159S.png

yeah by the time kurt cobain died i had moved on. To my teen self nevermind seemed like forever ago (3 years is huge when you're young) and i too had the impression that in utero was successful but not like huge (it started at number 1 of couse but i remember Vs by Pearl Jam being released around the same time and it eclipsed the numbers In Utero had done) and i was SHOCKED that his death had affected so many and the regain in popularity it caused. Overnight kids in like middle school who hadnt seeme dto give a shit suddenly were all wearing nirvana t shirts, like people my year (i was in grade 11) had a few years before and that would last for at least 3 to 4 years. his suicide must have done great things to Grohl and Novoselic's wallets anyway...

That said, I absolutely love the In Utero tour. There are a lot of good shows and I love the four-piece, more mature sounding, Nirvana.

I always see the MTV Unplugged and live and loud new year thing - and even Lollapalooza, if they had participated, as attempts to keep the band afloat and boost the sales of "In Utero".

The same thing happened to the Doors actually. Their popularity was fading away by the time Morrison died, and reading books about the band, you would think they were at their absolute peak.

I'm not saying killy corgan should bill himself

cobains death represented millions upon millions of dollars of lost revenue.

Correction: Cobains death represented millions upon millions of dollars of new revenue.

thats fair

argumentsn aside can we all at least agree that the I Am One rants are some of the most embarrassing Billy moments? If not at the very top of the list they're top 3

if you think that's "embarassing" you probably don't get much joy out of pumpkins live '93-'96

I was just listening to this one Nirvana show from 1993, apparently Kurt overdosed before the show and all this nonsense

What bothers me about Nirvana is that since Kurt died, everyone acts like he was so deep and a tortured soul and all this

At least with Billy, he's alive and we can say, what a stupid jackass. The I Am One rants were stupid. Zeitgiest sucked.

If Kurt Cobain put out ZG everyone would go on about "oh what a witty sardonic joke!"



Unplugged was awesome though

It's weird to imagine that Cobain would probably be putting out some lame music now, bitching about Foo Fighters in interviews (I wouldn't blame him).

It's weird to imagine that Cobain would probably be putting out some lame music now, bitching about Foo Fighters in interviews (I wouldn't blame him).


I've wondered about that album which he apparently was interested in recording >>>


Kurt Cobain was interested in recording a solo album of blues covers shortly before his death, Wipers guitarist Greg Sage has claimed.

Sage speaks as part of NME's tribute to Kurt Cobain on the 20th anniversary of the Nirvana frontman's death, on newsstands and available digitally now.

"I heard from some people in [Kurt's] camp in his circle that he wanted to come to Arizona and record at my studio, Zenorecords, and do an album of old blues covers," says Sage. "I thought that would be good for him personally, but how do you go from mega-million LP sales to an album of old blues covers from a corporate point of view? Two weeks later he was gone."

Elsewhere in the issue, musicians who recorded Cobain's favourite albums (including members of Pixies, Marine Girls, Gang Of Four, The Vaselines and The Slits) celebrate his legacy. Courtney Love also talks about her plans to stage a Kurt Cobain-themed musical if she can get the right people involved.


Source:
http://www.nme.com/news/nirvana/76574

aaaanyway re: pink and blue pills in the mid 90s i think it's been confirmed through other sources that the blue ones were muscle relaxers so i wouldn't be a bit surprised if the pinkish ones were uppers of some sort. it makes sense. i remember in the 90s seeing things like paxil and ritalin and adderol and all of those are pinkish.

It's really hard to say, based on colors, what pills he was taking. It is popular for downer-type pills to be blue, but that doesn't really mean much. Muscle relaxers in general aren't very intoxicating (with an exception for Soma), however, although there may be some '90s ones I'm not familiar with at all. I didn't take any drugs in the 90s besides Prozac.

I've wondered about that album which he apparently was interested in recording >>>

So many things have been said : Nirvana was splitting up (but was it for good this time ?), Kurt was to work with Michael Stipe (but people make so much out of this : it could have been one song or something that wouldn't have worked out), Kurt was to record a blues album, Kurt was going to do this, Kurt was doing to do that. He was a mess of a man at the end of his life and probably didn't really know, nor really care, towards the end.

if you think that's "embarassing" you probably don't get much joy out of pumpkins live '93-'96

not true, but Billy going gim gim gim gim gim gim gim gim gim gim gim gim NUTHIN for 7 minutes is just goofy