Cleveland, OH 11/1 Palace Theater

[Chuck=Zero]

Originally Posted by davin

hell no! not a single vip ticket for any of the 8 shows i'm going to this tour leg. all my tix have been either face value (cleve, san diego, last 2 chicago shows), or from a broker (first 2 chicago shows, LA).

personally i think the vip tix thing is fucking lame, and just takes up good seats that could have otherwise been available for the rest of us to buy.

Hmm, okay, no offense but I just figured you to be the type who wouldn't hesitate to throw away money on somethin' like the VIP thing. Wise choice, but even for me I'd think 8 shows in such a short period of time would be overkill.

[davin]

Originally Posted by redbull

the complaint in this thread was (e) its mis-leading for billy to call this tour a 20th anniversary tour, knowing that the majority of fans would assume it to consist of a lot of older songs, and then play the setlists he has played so far

yea, sure, its somewhat misleading to the casual fans, i admitted that earlier. columbus was even worse, as far as false advertising goes.

i'm just saying that knowing the deal with august, his blog post, etc. it shouldn't reeally be that surprising to ppl on here. nor if you know what the band is all about. just like a reunion vs. a revival....celebrating 20yrs of doing whatever the fuck they want could be iinferred...doesn't have to be 20th anniver retrospective. but again, wait for the toronto set and we'll see.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by davin

i'm just saying that knowing the deal with august, his blog post, etc. it shouldn't reeally be that surprising to ppl on here. nor if you know what the band is all about. just like a reunion vs. a revival....celebrating 20yrs of doing whatever the fuck they want could be iinferred...doesn't have to be 20th anniver retrospective.

personally that's the exact reason why i didn't buy tix to the ann shows. though to be fair the blog post came out WAY too late (damage control). but we talked about this enough in the Starla/DVD thread.

[davin]

Originally Posted by Chuck=Zero

Hmm, okay, no offense but I just figured you to be the type who wouldn't hesitate to throw away money on somethin' like the VIP thing. Wise choice, but even for me I'd think 8 shows in such a short period of time would be overkill.

nah. why pay $300 for an unknown seat # and row when you can pay $160 (approx) for a definitive seat in the first 3 rows thru a broker? and besides, i don't care about the other shit included in the vip...i met the band and all that multiple times already, got autographs, etc. Mayeb in the 90's i would have been more about that, but at this point i just care about the music/show experience. so having good seats and hanging with friends and having a good time is my focus.

and yes, you're right...8 shows in about a month is the largest number i've ever seen in such a small amount of time. but i looked at it more like 5 shows -- 2 singles and 3 pairs, since the 2-day shows are predesigned with no repeats and all that.

[Reyngel]

.







I'm still surprised that there are still a handful of people in this thread that really, honestly, don't get it.




The one question people should ask themselves is this:

Did the Cleveland show feel like a 20th Anniversary show?


If you answer no, then Cleveland got screwed.


If you answer yes, then you're in the very, very small minority of people who feel the same way. The great majority of people who were AT the show hated the setlist, apparently, let alone everone from the message boards.


So what's the answer?


It's no. The show was NOT at all indicative of a 20th Anniversary show, no matter how you try to justify the money you spent. That's right, folks. The only people... all two or three of them... who appreciated the setlist from Cleveland are people who were there and had to spend money on the show. So they're secretly bitter that they got fucked, and are trying to talk everyone else into thinking something ridiculous.





Let's review, again:


When compared to the previous tour,

-The band wore the same costumes
-The band had the same stage setup and decorations
-The band had the exact same intro music
-The band had the same lighting
-The band played the exact same SP songs
-The band played the exact same covers
-The band played the exact same arrangements
-The band had the exact same encore, with the same kazoos



And what was new or special?

-There were horns and an electric violin
-Billy spent an hour practicing new material
-The band actually played LESS of the SP songs than they did during their August tour... no TBITEITB, no Transformer, no Eye, no United States, no Once Upon a Time




They promoted it as something new. Something different. Something special.


And all Cleveland got was a show that was half a warmup practice for new material, and the other half a lesser rehash of the August tour.


The 2-night shows might be better. Future 1-night shows might be better, too.



BUT THE ARGUMENT IS THAT Cleveland got fucked over, because it wasn't a 20th Anniversary show like paying customers thought.


Was there a warning?


Yep.


Billy, worried that he'd be ridiculed even more than we're doing now, quickly threw up a blog trying to talk his way out of it, saying that it would be what people didn't expect: not a true anniversary show.


But by then, it was too late. People had already paid money, made travel arrangements, took time off from work.



It's not a complicated argument, people.


Was it a good show? Probably.


But was it an appropriate show?


No. Fucking. Way.


And who CARES if future shows are more indicative of a true anniversary show? This thread is about Cleveland. And the fact is, they got screwed. There's a REASON why the crowd was so shitty. They were pissed off. And rightfully so.

[Reyngel]

And for GOD'S SAKE, stop with the fucking lame argument of "OH FUCK YOU THEY PLAYED 11 SP SONGS THAT'S HALF THE SETLIST! WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT"


They only played about 8 or 9 SP songs that WEREN'T from this last year. And of those, almost every single one was just the obligatory, uninspired radio singles. The songs that people have been tired of hearing for TEN YEARS now, and Billy's aware of that.


It's almost like there was a meeting before the show, and Billy told the band,



"Okay guys. So here's the deal. Um... I don't really remember how to play the songs people care about anymore, and we ran out of time for rehearsals because we spent it all on learning songs people have never even heard before. So let's just do this... you know the cool August tour we just did? Let's just take some of those songs, and do them again, since it'll save time with having to learn parts. It's easy to add in Today or Bullet, because we play those at every single show, so, are we all in agreement? Yes? Okay. I'll write a blog and get us out of this mess. You guys get back to work. We have another warmup show to do in Cleveland!"

[duovamp]

Enter key.
Enter key.
Enter key.
Sentence.
Enter key.
Enter key.
Enter key.
Sentence.

[tcm]

Originally Posted by Reyngel

The one question people should ask themselves is this:
Did the Cleveland show feel like a 20th Anniversary show?

If you answer no, then Cleveland got screwed.

If you answer yes, then you're in the very, very small minority of people who feel the same way. The great majority of people who were AT the show hated the setlist, apparently, let alone everone from the message boards.

omg dude this is so not a democracy. i don't expect any band to honor anyone's vision but their own. if Billy and Jimmy are feeling the 20th Anniversary vibes, then god bless 'em. i'm not gonna pretend like people should have seen this coming, and it does suck for fans who blew shitloads of money if they don't like the show. that'll always be true. and unfortunately there will always be fans willing to spend crazy amounts to see their favorite band. but if every band feels beholden to those fans, then every band puts on the same kind of show.

[davin]

Originally Posted by BILLY CORGAN

When you see the total set-list, particularly for the black crosses and white sunshine shows (or is it the other way round?), I don't think terms like 'harkening back' or 'sentimental' will be the words that will come to mind. This tour is a celebration of where we are, not where we've been. We are HERE! (With a big smile and a foot in your back) Enjoy it if you will, we realize its not for everybody.

[tcm]

yes, davin, but should people have been "warned" before tickets went on sale? i don't think that's necessary, myself. we don't expect to be told that the movie has an happy ending before we buy our ticket.

[Azael]

Originally Posted by tcm

yes, davin, but should people have been "warned" before tickets went on sale? i don't think that's necessary, myself. we don't expect to be told that the movie has an happy ending before we buy our ticket.

What if the movie was called The Happy Ending Movie?

[tcm]

especially.

[redbull]

Originally Posted by Azael

What if the movie was called The Happy Ending Movie?

and you could get the best seats in the house to the happy ending movie for a cool $400

[tcm]

with a title like The Happy Ending Movie, what kind of movie do you think The Happy Ending Movie would be? most likely it would examine our ideas of what constitutes the "happy ending". it would leave you asking yourself, "was that an happy ending?"

but of course we don't want a rock show to make us think! how silly

[redbull]

Originally Posted by tcm

with a title like The Happy Ending Movie, what kind of movie do you think The Happy Ending Movie would be? most likely it would examine our ideas of what constitutes the "happy ending". it would leave you asking yourself, "was that an happy ending?"

but of course we don't want a rock show to make us think! how silly

[tcm]

[JRiordan]

Q: What is the song Siva?

A. One of the oldest and best SP songs that fans love to see live
B. A song rarely played from 1997-2000, and only recently played 9 times in August 2008
C. A boring repeat whose title I'm tired of seeing appear on my computer screen. Glad I don't have to HEAR it at the show!

[Reyngel]

Originally Posted by JRiordan

Q: What is the song Siva?

A. One of the oldest and best SP songs that fans love to see live
B. A song rarely played from 1997-2000, and only recently played 9 times in August 2008
C. A boring repeat whose title I'm tired of seeing appear on my computer screen. Glad I don't have to HEAR it at the show!

D. Just ONE song out of 21 other songs that included the standard radio singles, 20-minute covers that almost everyone hates, and half a setlist of material that's either new, or too soft to be called "dark and heavy," or both.

or

E. A song that was part of a setlist and show that has no business being labeled a "20th Anniversary" show.


Anwser:


It's D or E. Or both.

[greenpaperclips]

anybody else out there survive after they shot their brains out after seeing Toronto's night 2 setlist?

[davin]

Originally Posted by Reyngel

D. Just ONE song out of 21 other songs that included the standard radio singles, 20-minute covers that almost everyone hates, and half a setlist of material that's either new, or too soft to be called "dark and heavy," or both.

or

E. A song that was part of a setlist and show that has no business being labeled a "20th Anniversary" show.


Anwser:


It's D or E. Or both.

so reyngel, its been an emotional night. i just got back from grant park. and man what great Toronto info to come back to!

Instead of "i told you so" or anything like that, lets just all agree on this 2-day set's overall awesomeness, ok?

i'm equally as sure that future single-day shows will seem even stranger, but meh, thats the way the cookie crumbles. its the band's perogative and if they would rather play all the new stuff, so be it. but for a person who never saw or knew anythign abotu the august show, all of the above (except for maybe columbus) is pretty fuckin awesome!

[AveryLoren]

Just got the show from the site.
can some one give me a run down of the covers/teases played during heavy metal machine.

[laaazy]

Originally Posted by AveryLoren

Just got the show from the site.
can some one give me a run down of the covers/teases played during heavy metal machine.

could you up this please?

[pippi79]

Originally Posted by davin

not the ones i read (spin, cleveland leader). and plus I WAS THERE DUMBASS. people took to the new songs really well. especially as rome burns, superchrist and the first 4. if anythign it was during mayo and the today sing-along where people rsponded less enthusiastically as normal.

Originally Posted by redbull

almost every review I've read on here has said the crowd sucked.

Yeah, I was there. The crowd was awful. I was way over on the side near the front of the orchestra, behind an aisle that split Orch A and B, so we had a great, unobstructed view of most of the entire crowd on the floor. Aside from the people in the very front rows who were rocking out most of the night, people just stood there, arms folded, beer in hand. Some people nodded their heads in time to the music. Maybe a dozen or so gave the band fist pumps. There were a couple people with lighters, which was funny.

I remember feeling really uncomfortable and weird all night because the crowd seemed so dead and I knew it had to be bumming out the band - it was bumming me out. I kept thinking maybe people really were cheering and singing along and I just couldn't hear them because I was wearing ear plugs, but every time I pulled them out to check for crowd noise... nada. It was so weird. It was like everyone was there to see a movie or a play, not a rock show. My friends commented after the show that it seemed like everyone there was depressed. And maybe there's truth to that - it was the weekend before the election in Ohio. Maybe people were just exhausted.

So, yeah. Cleveland barely rocked. My friends, who aren't really big fans, thought the band was 'totally into it' and played a great show. I agreed. The electric debut of Song for a Son? Pretty awesome. Siva, Speed Kills, Suffer, The March Hare, As Rome Burns..? Oh yeah. I enjoyed it. But, I just went to see the band play - not relive some nostalgic pumpkins past - so when they put on a great show, I was happy. Billy looked really excited to be on stage, which was different from the fall 2007 tour, and that was really cool to see. Really cool. It's sometimes good in life to recognize that a band's just a band and a show's just a show. SP are a great band and they put on a great show.