language question

[Liquid-J]

do you guys know if it is more difficult for a person who only speaks broken english (or any language really) to understand a person who speaks english very well, meaning they can understand another person who also speaks in broken english more easily? or is it the other way around, where they can understand the native english speaker better than the person who also speaks in broken english?

[Eulogy]

Originally posted by Liquid-J
do you guys know if it is more difficult for a person who only speaks broken english (or any language really) to understand a person who speaks english very well, meaning they can understand another person who also speaks in broken english more easily? or is it the other way around, where they can understand the native english speaker better than the person who also speaks in broken english?

I would imagine that people's broken English varies greatly depending on what they know. so I'd guess that it's only easier to understand someone else's broken English if it's broken in a similar way.

[mistle]

fuck man i don't understand a word of what you're trying to say. i'm going to bed. goodnight

[Liquid-J]

let's break it down a little further... knowing that there are different kinds of broken english...


i guess the best way would be for me to list the options, and hopefully you people can rank them from easiest to most difficult:


to a person who speaks broken english, please rank the following speakers in order of difficulty of comprehension, from easiest to most difficult:

A native english speaker


B person who speaks broken english, and whose broken english stems from the very same language as the listener, but they are still communicating only in english


C person who speaks broken english, and whose broken english stems from a language different from the native language of the listener

[Liquid-J]

ok eulogy is getting what im getting at..

i suppose we could rank orders of similarity too, like for example broken english spoken by an italian is easier for a spaniard to understand than broken english spoken by a russian, most likely..

[Liquid-J]

but basically, what i most want to know is does well spoken english only sound clear to people who understand english well? or does it sound clear to people who only know some english as well? that is to say, to them, does it sound more clear than similarly broken english

[Eulogy]

Originally posted by Liquid-J
but basically, what i most want to know is does well spoken english only sound clear to people who understand english well? or does it sound clear to people who only know some english as well? that is to say, to them, does it sound more clear than similarly broken english

I would guess that well spoken English is easier to understand than broken English. That would probably be because everyone is, for the most part, taught to use good English.

I don't think the native language is what would determine the level of difficulty in understanding a fellow broken English speaker. Rather, I think it would depend on the methods that were used to learn the language. You know what I'm saying? Like, if two people were taught how to speak English in the same class or something, they'd probably have a pretty easy time understanding each other's broken English.

But I guess overall it's probably easier to understand well spoken English.

[Liquid-J]

Originally posted by Liquid-J
but basically, what i most want to know is does well spoken english only sound clear to people who understand english well? or does it sound clear to people who only know some english as well? that is to say, to them, does it sound more clear than similarly broken english

this is the cliff's notes version, sorry i haven't been very clear apparently

[Liquid-J]

Originally posted by Eulogy


I would guess that well spoken English is easier to understand than broken English. That would probably be because everyone is, for the most part, taught to use good English.

I don't think the native language is what would determine the level of difficulty in understanding a fellow broken English speaker. Rather, I think it would depend on the methods that were used to learn the language. You know what I'm saying? Like, if two people were taught how to speak English in the same class or something, they'd probably have a pretty easy time understanding each other's broken English.

But I guess overall it's probably easier to understand well spoken English.

i disagree that most people are taught to use good English, and i say this from dealing with peopel all the time who just picked up english, and when they go home, jsut speak in spanish or indian or a language spoken in asia, etc...

and for these people, who have by and large never been schooled in english, im wondering if broken english (which could be seen as simplified english, particularly if they speak the same other language but don't resort to that in the scenarios im trying to figure out) is easier to understand than clear, proper english

[Eulogy]

Originally posted by Liquid-J



i disagree that most people are taught to use good English, and i say this from dealing with peopel all the time who just picked up english, and when they go home, jsut speak in spanish or indian or a language spoken in asia, etc...

and for these people, who have by and large never been schooled in english, im wondering if broken english (which could be seen as simplified english, particularly if they speak the same other language but don't resort to that in the scenarios im trying to figure out) is easier to understand than clear, proper english

ohhhhhh, ok I get what you are saying.

Well, in that case, I'd imagine they better understand the broken English because that's what they and most of the people around them use every day. right?

[Eulogy]

Just as black people who rely heavily on ebonics probably understand that form of English better than the proper kind. er somethin

[DeviousJ]

Well if someone's speaking broken English, it's because they either think it's right or they know it's wrong but don't know the right way to do it. So I guess if they think they're right, and someone else is speaking broken English in a similar way (maybe they were taught by the same person) they'd probably assume that other person is speaking correctly. If they know they're wrong, then there's a chance they could know other people are wrong and they recognize correct English when they hear it, but otherwise it's not going to be a lot easier for them unless they actually understand the other person, capisce?

Now what's the background story on this?

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Eulogy
Just as black people who rely heavily on ebonics probably understand that form of English better than the proper kind. er somethin

Oh Eulogy, what arguments *won't* you start?

[Eulogy]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


Oh Eulogy, what arguments *won't* you start?

oh pshaw

That shouldn't start an arguement. :erm

[Liquid-J]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
Well if someone's speaking broken English, it's because they either think it's right or they know it's wrong but don't know the right way to do it. So I guess if they think they're right, and someone else is speaking broken English in a similar way (maybe they were taught by the same person) they'd probably assume that other person is speaking correctly. If they know they're wrong, then there's a chance they could know other people are wrong and they recognize correct English when they hear it, but otherwise it's not going to be a lot easier for them unless they actually understand the other person, capisce?

Now what's the background story on this?

i feel you... another question, or maybe just the same questions im asking stated differently, are there cases in which the person does not know how to say something properly, but can understand the proper words spoken better than the way in which they would awkwardly/incorrectly phrase things themselves?

[Liquid-J]

there's no real background story on this.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Liquid-J



i feel you... another question, or maybe just the same questions im asking stated differently, are there cases in which the person does not know how to say something properly, but can understand the proper words spoken better than the way in which they would awkwardly/incorrectly phrase things themselves?

Yeah, that's what I meant about knowing they're wrong, and recognizing correct English when they hear it. It's like a scale, going from hearing a language you've never encountered before and understanding none of it, up to the level we're at (say) where we've mastered the language but can still make mistakes or know we're wrong, and hear someone say it correctly and think 'oh yeah, that's it'. I think it's harder with a second language though, because you're likely to apply the rules of your first language, which is why you hear a lot of slightly strange phrases from people whose first language is something other than English - weird verb forms, sentences that seem backwards, stuff like that. In that sense, they might understand things phrased 'wrongly' like that because it makes more sense to them grammatically, yeah?

So I guess anything can happen!

[Liquid-J]

i guess you're right! i mean, we live in a time in which a dancing banana can be summoned with a mere 10 keystrokes, or a few clicks of a mouse

[alexthestampede]

people make fun of "tourist speech", but when people speak another language to me that im not fluent in (all but english) i get a better idea of what theyre trying to communicate when they go slowly, enunciate each word, and mainly just say the important ones

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Liquid-J
i guess you're right! i mean, we live in a time in which a dancing banana can be summoned with a mere 10 keystrokes, or a few clicks of a mouse

Man, who needs language?

[Swuggie83]

I believe that the native-language speaker has a better chance at appropriately interpreting the second-language speaker's message. The native speaker would find it much easier to think in its language, therefore, interpreting multiple grammatical structures would occur more rapidly. For a second-language speaker, the pronunciation of words may be off as well as the grammatical structure. Many of these speakers tend to use the grammar of their native language for other languages. As part of normal language acquisition, it is usually easier to identify sounds of a native language or model speaker, unless of course, they are talking amongst themselves.

Edit: We all speak English with an accent. In a conversation between a second-language speaker and an English speaker, if the English speaker has an accent different from that learned, then it would be more difficult for the second-language speaker to figure out what the hell the English speaker is talking about.

I've studied linguistic theory and phonetic transcription.

[Liquid-J]

KAT, what is your opinion on this?