The Village

[mpp]

Originally posted by Sepiae
I don't think Brody was supposed to be evil. I think he was a representation of horror coming in all forms. You expect evil and pain to come from certain sources. But no matter how much you try to shut out the sources, there are things that are out of your control. There are people who will not follow the rules, not because they are evil, but because the rules don't mean the same thing to them.

And his acting was amazing in that part.

wow, that's brilliant

[mpp]

what was lucius' color?

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by mpp
what was lucius' color?

Ivy never revealed it. But, that would be interesting to know.

[mpp]

Originally posted by BlueStar


Ivy never revealed it. But, that would be interesting to know.

which one makes sense?

also, was he observed by those of which we do not speak in the woods early in the movie? i thought he was and i thought he said that he was, too...could that have been noah?

did he stab joaquin not because of his marriage to Ivy but b/c of him going into the woods? geez, now i'm really thinking here

it hurts

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by mpp



which one makes sense?

also, was he observed by those of which we do not speak in the woods early in the movie? i thought he was and i thought he said that he was, too...could that have been noah?

did he stab joaquin not because of his marriage to Ivy but b/c of him going into the woods?

I'm sure his color is not red and not yellow (the "safe color"). For whatever reason, I always expected Ivy to say blue.

Blue is calming. It can be strong and steadfast or light and friendly.

In many diverse cultures blue is significant in religious beliefs, brings peace, or is believed to keep the bad spirits away.

Yes, he was observed by a monster in the woods. But, all they showed was some movement, not actual monster. Perhaps it was Noah who really observed him in the woods? So perhaps Noah can be considered a monster (especially considering that he attacked/stabbed Phoenix's character)? The fact that Noah was always going into the woods and picking up the "bad color" and the woods is where the monsters are...it was a clue to the fact that Noah would be the one to disrupt the community and bring what they tried to escape (crime, etc) into the community?

I think Noah stabbed Phoenix's character out of jealousy. But, if you look at Noah as being a "monster", you could view it as him stabbing Phoenix because he breached the border.

[mpp]

Originally posted by BlueStar



I think Noah stabbed Phoenix's character out of jealousy. But, if you look at Noah as being a "monster", you could view it as him stabbing Phoenix because he breached the border.

that's what's confusing me now

anybody have any inside info? thoughts?

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by mpp


that's what's confusing me now

anybody have any inside info? thoughts?

And then there is the whole Noah dressing up as a monster. Which could be an obvious way of M. Night making the viewers connect Noah to the monsters/evil.

The monsters are meant to keep the community alive and keep the members of the community from venturing out into the real world (the place where bad things happen). What was supposedly keeping them safe (the monsters, by preventing them from going to the towns and being harmed), was, in fact, what harmed them (Noah).

[mpp]

now that i think about it, it was certainly noah who "observed" joaquin in the woods

he knew, at least by implication, where the damn robes were before he went in the room (he had been put in there in "time out" by Ivy and he didn't want to go back in there)

this movie is just too damn easy to get all wrapped up in

i need to see it again but i'm afraid i'll have horrible dreams again (the night after i saw it, i had dreams about those we do not speak of and stabbing...ugh)

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by mpp

he knew, at least by implication, where the damn robes were before he went in the room (he had been put in there in "time out" by Ivy and he didn't want to go back in there)

i need to see it again

Oooh...yeah.

Indeed. I definitely want to see the movie again.

[BlueStar]

What about the fact that Noah was never scared about the monsters? He went into the woods without fear, he laughed at the noises coming from the woods, etc. Granted, he was a little crazy, but... And it is commonly regarded in literature that insane or whatnot characters can see things others cannnot see. (interesting example: in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the crazy people were the ones who could see that Dawn was the key, no one else could) So perhaps Noah knew all along that there were no monsters?

Yeah, I need to stop. I think I might be reaching too far.

[Tchocky]

M. Night Shaymalan sucks ass. Wide Awake sucked, The Sixth Sense was only worth one viewing, Unbreakable was a Sixth Sense ripoff, and Signs was awful.

The Village looks painfully bad.

[mpp]

Originally posted by BlueStar


Yeah, I need to stop. I think I might be reaching too far.

i feel like that too

but did noah just overhear their conversation (the elders')? i just don't think it's that simple b/c of his actions re: those of which we do not speak

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by mpp



i feel like that too

but did noah just overhear their conversation (the elders')? i just don't think it's that simple b/c of his actions re: those of which we do not speak

those of which we do not speak = monsters
Noah = doesn't really speak
once again, Noah = monster

And M. Night is really known for bringing religious symbolism into his movies. Throughout the film, I kept being reminded of the fire and brimstone of Puritanism...the fire and brimstone = the monsters and all the warnings. Also, M. Night went to a Catholic school and actually earned the highest grade of everyone in his religion classes. Could the whole thing where the boys would stand with their back to the woods and their arms stretched out be symbolic of the cross or even being crucified?

[mpp]

Originally posted by BlueStar

Could the whole thing where the boys would stand with their back to the woods and their arms stretched out be symbolic of the cross or even being crucified?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


critical analysis can really lead one in incorrect directions...certainly, some of this stuff does exist in the movie and was meant to be in it and some of it does not/is not

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by mpp

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

critical analysis can really lead one in incorrect directions...certainly, some of this stuff does exist in the movie and was meant to be in it and some of it does not/is not

Well, you could look at in the simplest of ways... They were afraid. What do you do when you are afraid? You pray. But, it also kinda supports the whole fire and brimstone thing, the whole notion of the monsters = evil, and the common sybolism of the woods in literature. good (human cross/praying/god) v. evil (monsters/woods).

[pastor]

Originally posted by BlueStar
What about the fact that Noah was never scared about the monsters? He went into the woods without fear, he laughed at the noises coming from the woods, etc. Granted, he was a little crazy, but... And it is commonly regarded in literature that insane or whatnot characters can see things others cannnot see. (interesting example: in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the crazy people were the ones who could see that Dawn was the key, no one else could) So perhaps Noah knew all along that there were no monsters?

Yeah, I need to stop. I think I might be reaching too far.

I suppose a spoilers tag would be extraneous at this point in the conversation, but SPOILERS YEH RETARDS:

Noah was the one who was skinning and mutilating the animals. I guess this from the fact that there were bones and feathers in the pit where the monster get-up was. His parents are disqualifed as suspects because they were shocked to have seen the costume uprooted, and they mentioned that they'd "buried" it under the floorboards. You tend to bury things you don't want to see again, so that leads me to believe that they'd retired it only to have Noah find it. This would explain why he giggled hysterically whenever the "monsters" were out and about; he was in on a secret little game that only he and the Elders knew about, and he couldn't contain his excitement.

It's also reasonable to assume that he was only playing with Ivy, perhaps in a decidely retarded way to make friends with her again. I doubt he wanted to kill her. You could see the regret and confusion on his face when he stabbed Lucius; I don't think he had the wherewithal to earnestly carry out another act of violence.

But, yeah, good movie.

[mpp]

Originally posted by pastor




It's also reasonable to assume that he was only playing with Ivy, perhaps in a decidely retarded way to make friends with her again. I doubt he wanted to kill her. You could see the regret and confusion on his face when he stabbed Lucius; I don't think he had the wherewithal to earnestly carry out another act of violence.

But, yeah, good movie.

So he stabbed Lucius because he was to marry Ivy, not because he had breached the woods?

[BlueStar]

Originally posted by pastor


I suppose a spoilers tag would be extraneous at this point in the conversation, but SPOILERS YEH RETARDS:

Noah was the one who was skinning and mutilating the animals. I guess this from the fact that there were bones and feathers in the pit where the monster get-up was. His parents are disqualifed as suspects because they were shocked to have seen the costume uprooted, and they mentioned that they'd "buried" it under the floorboards. You tend to bury things you don't want to see again, so that leads me to believe that they'd retired it only to have Noah find it. This would explain why he giggled hysterically whenever the "monsters" were out and about; he was in on a secret little game that only he and the Elders knew about, and he couldn't contain his excitement.

It's also reasonable to assume that he was only playing with Ivy, perhaps in a decidely retarded way to make friends with her again. I doubt he wanted to kill her. You could see the regret and confusion on his face when he stabbed Lucius; I don't think he had the wherewithal to earnestly carry out another act of violence.

Someone already gave away the ending muich earlier in this thread.

The elders claimed to be the ones who were skinning the animals. However, when all the livestock went missing, they figured it was one of the elders, but did not know which one. That very well could have been Noah.

The way Noah's parents made it seem, it wasn't like it was buried to be forgotten about or anything. However, I did find it odd that they would keep one in the "quiet room". But yeah, I think Noah definitely knew that there were no monsters.

I do not think that he was just playing with Ivy. The whole regret and almost sorrow over the stabbing could be viewed as the inner and outer battle of good v. evil. And even how there is nothing that is all good and there is nothing that is all evil. The monsters were evil, but they came out of good intention (the elders created the monsters so no one would venture out and go to the towns and get harmed).

Or perhaps he was just trying to prevent Ivy from going to the towns and force her to run back to their little village? Or perhaps he knew in some way that in order to preserve the life they had going on, Ivy needed to believe in the monsters?

[pastor]

Originally posted by mpp
So he stabbed Lucius because he was to marry Ivy, not because he had breached the woods?

I think, in writing, there's merit in the idea that he killed Lucius because Lucius had breached the woods. As someone in on the "game," killing Lucius might have seemed a logical continuation to someone with no means of distinguishing between acceptable and unacceptable behavior (the monster farce being on the cusp of that society's acceptability; killing a human outright crossing it).

In light of the actual scene, though, I think he killed Lucius out of jealousy. If he had done it out of a gleeful continuation of the game, I think he would have been happier to have done it. He would at least worn the costume while doing it. But he had tears in his eyes, seemed unsure of himself. He fiddled around with the knife aimlessly before making the second stab. It's clear that Shyamalan wanted there to be ambiguity as to Noah's motives, but, in light of the character development and my own insider's knowledge on the workings of the retarded mind, I stake my claim on the jealousy side.

[pastor]

Originally posted by BlueStar


Someone already gave away the ending muich earlier in this thread.

The elders claimed to be the ones who were skinning the animals. However, when all the livestock went missing, they figured it was one of the elders, but did not know which one. That very well could have been Noah.

The way Noah's parents made it seem, it wasn't like it was buried to be forgotten about or anything. However, I did find it odd that they would keep one in the "quiet room". But yeah, I think Noah definitely knew that there were no monsters.

I do not think that he was just playing with Ivy. The whole regret and almost sorrow over the stabbing could be viewed as the inner and outer battle of good v. evil. And even how there is nothing that is all good and there is nothing that is all evil. The monsters were evil, but they came out of good intention (the elders created the monsters so no one would venture out and go to the towns and get harmed).

Or perhaps he was just trying to prevent Ivy from going to the towns and force her to run back to their little village? Or perhaps he knew in some way that in order to preserve the life they had going on, Ivy needed to believe in the monsters?

When did the Elders claim to be the ones skinning the animals? My interpretation of the scene with Noah's parents is much different, and much more correct, than yours.

I think you're reading too much into it with the whole Noah-as-microcosm-of-good-and-evil-in-us-all thing. My interpretation is much close to Sepiae's: Noah represented the element of chaos from which we cannot buffer ourselves no matter how hard we try. While I'll grant that Shyamalan left it vague enough to allow for all the multifarious interpretations of Noah's motives, all of yours are wrong. Okay, I'm joking. Noah's waffling nature in the stabbing scene does reflect a conflict between doing something good and evil (that paragraph was right on), but it's a better reflection of how our attempts to shelter ourselves from external evil inevitably ferment evil from within. And it'd be ridiculous to think that Noah was conscious of these abstract notions of good and evil and how they related to his actions in the "game." Not that you're doing that. More immediately, more realistically, and more sensically on a surface plot level, he was waffling because he wanted to kill Lucius for taking his girl but knew that killing was wrong.

As for his actions with Ivy, he wasn't succumbing to evil. He was retarded. He was playing a game to make everything nice-nice like it used to be. Then he got owned. The end.

I don't think every action in the movie has to be fastidiously, over-exactingly connected to a rubric of themes.

[sawdust restaurants]

If we can get to 125-150 posts on The Village, I can only imagine how many posts a serious discussion on Mulholland Drive would garner.

[pastor]

Originally posted by sawdust restaurants
If we can get to 125-150 posts on The Village, I can only imagine how many posts a serious discussion on Mulholland Drive would garner.

That film is so condescendingly obvious, we might as well be deconstructing a Cameron Crowe movie.

[sawdust restaurants]

Originally posted by pastor
That film is so condescendingly obvious, we might as well be deconstructing a Cameron Crowe movie.

Any Cameron Crowe movie, even the lame ones, are better than The Village by leaps and bounds.

[pastor]

Originally posted by sawdust restaurants
Any Cameron Crowe movie, even the lame ones, are better than The Village by leaps and bounds.

God, I want to clamp your trachea right about now.

[relaxor!]

Hey guys, why was Helen Keller a bad driver?










Because she was a woman.

[Karl Connor]

what is The Village? are they a techno band?

[oui henri]

i saw it on saturday and i still don't know how i feel about it.

i figured it out mid movie, which says A LOT since i don't generally figure out movies until it's over (and sometimes WELL after).

haha

[Eulogy]

<3 Joaquin Phoenix.

<3 x10000.

Wow. I don't know why I liked his character so much. I have absolutely no idea. But something about him made him the most likeable character ever. Oh man.

[Eulogy]

And how the hell did any of you figure out the ending ahead of time??

I don't even think I believe you fucks.

[Geek USA]

Originally posted by Eulogy
<3 Joaquin Phoenix.

<3 x10000.

Wow. I don't know why I liked his character so much. I have absolutely no idea. But something about him made him the most likeable character ever. Oh man.

it was the whole little speech he gave ivy, and when he would always be there when she had her hand out