someone do me a favour - Page 4

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undone:
This is seriously the only positive thing to come out of this thread.

yeah...questioning of one's ideals is entirely pointless...

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:30 PM

for the record, i have a catholic friend...who sometimes browses these very pages...that i think is stupid for being a catholic...

he can't offer any justification for why he's a catholic...much like suze

Undone · 10-01-2002, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
yeah...questioning of one's ideals is entirely pointless...

If it was a legitimate discussion on the values of different religions, I'd be in. But instead it began with a thread flaming and generalizing a group of people. When such things start out on such illogical premises and get worse as time goes along, and it's obvious the ones flaming aren't open to learning, I don't see the point.

Undone · 10-01-2002, 07:32 PM

/end transmission.

Tessellation · 10-01-2002, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa:
okay, here's one thing. judaism doesn't really talk about the afterlife

that's what I enjoy about it as well. The concept of "hell" is used to manipulate people, and I intensely dislike that.

But, no, I don't Judaism is going extinct. Maybe in an organized fashion, but that describes many other faiths as well. I don't know if you'd agree w. me or not, but I think that praying in the comfort of one's home is a more fvorable practice than attending worship services...

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undone:
If it was a legitimate discussion on the values of different religions, I'd be in. But instead it began with a thread flaming and generalizing a group of people. When such things start out on such illogical premises and get worse as time goes along, and it's obvious the ones flaming aren't open to learning, I don't see the point.

point 1. i didn't flame anyone. indeed, throughout this discussion i have remained calm whilst i have been called 'moron', 'idiot', 'bigot', 'antisemite' etc etc

point 2. answer me this...the other day there was a thread about the church of scientology. nearly everyone in that thread was bashing on the relgion and calling it moronic. funny - i didn't see you popping up to defend it...

doublestandards4U?

Tessellation · 10-01-2002, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
point 1. i didn't flame anyone. indeed, there was a thread about the church of scientology. nearly everyone in that thread was bashing on the relgion and calling it moronic. funny - i didn't see you popping up to defend it...

doublestandards4U?

oh, please. Scientology DOESN'T TAKE KINDLY TO ITS MEMBERS LEAVING. A colleague of my father's got mixed up w. them and after he left, got a diamondback rattlesnake in his mailbox. He sued the "church" and won.

you know NOTHING about scientology...

[This message has been edited by Tessellation (edited 10-01-2002).]

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation:

oh, please. Scientology DOESN'T TAKE KINDLY TO ITS MEMBERS LEAVING. A colleage of my father's got mixed up w. them and after he left, got a diamondback rattlesnake in his mailbox. He sued the "church" and won.

you know NOTHING about scientology...

so, ONE person that's a scientologist is a bastard...

you're not generalising to a whole relgion are you?!

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:46 PM

the point is that everyone jumps up to defend the jews

people aren't so charitable in their support for, say, scientologists..

Tessellation · 10-01-2002, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
so, ONE person that's a scientologist is a bastard...

you're not generalising to a whole relgion are you?!

are you a fucking idiot? THE GUY THAT LEFT RECEIVED IT. he sued the entire church, AS THEY APPROVED OF LETTING HIM GET VENOM INTO HIS BLOOD STREAM.

Undone · 10-01-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
point 1. i didn't flame anyone. indeed, throughout this discussion i have remained calm whilst i have been called 'moron', 'idiot', 'bigot', 'antisemite' etc etc

point 2. answer me this...the other day there was a thread about the church of scientology. nearly everyone in that thread was bashing on the relgion and calling it moronic. funny - i didn't see you popping up to defend it...

doublestandards4U?

I didn't say you flamed her. Ace of Aces clearly started a flamewar in the other thread. You are very calm and methodical about your views, approaching intolerance in such a way that is almost scarier than the flamers.

You also bring red herrings into the discussion. Suze was being attacked for being Jewish. This has nothing to do with Scientology. We are bringing in alien issues. I didn't even say anything about scientology, so I don't know why you are bring up that point to me. I don't take most religions seriously, but I won't deny many have a rich cultural heritage or are important to family, and I can't make individual judgments on them because of religion. There are annoying atheists. There are atheists who are my best friends. Apply this to Jewish people, Catholics, etc. That is the problem with this thread. Re: Beautiful Loser.

Samsa · 10-01-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation:

that's what I enjoy about it as well. The concept of "hell" is used to manipulate people, and I intensely dislike that.

But, no, I don't Judaism is going extinct. Maybe in an organized fashion, but that describes many other faiths as well. I don't know if you'd agree w. me or not, but I think that praying in the comfort of one's home is a more fvorable practice than attending worship services...

well i think it really depends on the service. i went to an atrocious kol nidre service a couple weeks ago and i've been to other atrocious services. but the rosh hashanah service i went to this year was really nice and lovely except for the two annoying people who were like talking the whole time.

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation:

are you a fucking idiot? THE GUY THAT LEFT RECEIVED IT. he sued the entire church, AS THEY APPROVED OF LETTING HIM GET VENOM INTO HIS BLOOD STREAM.

is it too late to change my vote in the 'dumbest netphorian' thread?

Tessellation · 10-01-2002, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
the point is that everyone jumps up to defend the jews

people aren't so charitable in their support for, say, scientologists..

because scientologists hold their members hostage, you moron:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Roxanne Friend sued the Church of Scientology (case number BC 018003 in Superior Court of the state of California for the county of Los Angeles). The Church settled out of court "for nuisance value." Roxanne not much later died of cancer, which may have been cured had she gotten medical attention sooner. Roxanne did not because she felt that Scientology auditing could cure any ill.]

DECLARATION OF ROXANNE FRIEND

1.I, Roxanne Friend, make the following declaration on personal knowledge except for those statements made on information and belief and as to those things I believe them to be true.

15. The "Church" of Scientology forced me to participate in what they are calling religious practices that I myself did not want to participate in . For example, in the spring and summer of 1987 I was given auditing that I didn't want and was not allowed to leave Flag when I wanted to. I was made to stay there for months to undergo auditing that I did not want and even though I told them I wanted to go back to Los Angeles because my father was visiting from the east, I was not permitted to do so . During this time I went from having mono to having pneumonia and getting very ill. Still, I was made to do auditing and was not allowed to leave . I also missed being Maid of Honor at my girlfriend's wedding because the case supervisor would not let me leave to go to the wedding. The fact that being at Flag was against my will is in my deposition on page 334.

16. Then around October 1988 I was told by Flag staff member Arda Froese that I was ordered by Senior Case Supervisor International, Jeff Walker, to go down to Florida to do a special program he had written. I was then ordered to go back down and do more "Introspection Rundown". At that point I said NO.

The Introspection Rundown also involves forcible detention.
17. In December 1989 I went back to Florida for the purpose of doing a process called the Purification Rundown but was again forced to do the Introspection Rundown auditing. I left without Case Supervisor approval which was always required prior to leaving the Flag Land Base in Florida. I left in the middle of the night and took a taxi to a hotel near Tampa airport because I did not want to be on Scientology premises or continue the Introspection Rundown. Also, I made phone calls to the Clearwater, Florida or Tampa, Florida police saying that I was being held against my will. The Scientologists had the phone in my room cut off when I did this.

18. During the period the organization had place 2-5 staff in the room next to mine who constantly watched me and intruded on my life. I had absolutely no privacy. The followed me to breakfast, lunch and dinner. If I tried to talk with police, the switchboard cut my phone off for hours on end which is mentioned in my deposition on pages 471 and 472. The "Church" of Scientology staff members. They refused to allow me even to have meals with my friends who were in Florida at the same time. Additionally, the organization did not allow me to move around freely as I wished as mentioned in my deposition on paged 476 and 477.

19. After I left Flag without permission in December 1989 , I believe the organization then felt it necessary to force me into their procedures with greater force than before. This started with sending several staff members from Florida who came to my apartment in Los Angeles to try to persuade me to have auditing.

20. The staff members of the Florida Scientology organization subsequently drugged me (deposition pages 532-535) with the approval of Flag and senior officials of the "Church" of Scientology. Then they woke me up in the middle of the night (deposition page 511), took me in a recreational vehicle against my will (deposition pages 529 and 540) and subsequently held me in the rv and then in a room in Florida (deposition page 510) for a period totalling about four weeks, all against my will. I made at least two attempts to escape but I was bodily forced by the guards to return.

21. None of the above events happened with my consent. And I was kept imprisoned in Florida even after numerous written requests on my part to the staff of defendant FLAG, specifically my case Supervisor Richard Reese, stating I was being held against my will, that I wanted to leave and that I believed that what they were doing was illegal. See Exhibits 33 and 34 to Deposition of Roxanne Friend.

22. In addition to the trauma of the kidnapping and imprisonment, the Scientologists took away my privacy. In December 1989 and January 1990, I was spied upon constantly, 24 hours a day. My phone calls were monitored (when I had a phone in December); my comings and goings were reported on; and, of course, in January when I was completely imprisoned, every aspect of my life was under constant surveillance.

25. It is difficult to talk about and describe the feeling of being held by the Scientologists down in Florida. I felt like a hostage or a prisoner. I felt that nothing I could do could make a difference and that I better be quiet so as to protect my self. Today I am trying to pick up and arrange the fragments of my life and go forward.

Sworn to under penalty of perjury under the laws of the state of California this 6th day of Decemeber 1991.

Roxanne Friend

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undone:
You also bring red herrings into the discussion. Suze was being attacked for being Jewish. This has nothing to do with Scientology. We are bringing in alien issues.

alien issues that are a direct parallel to the issue at hand.

this is commonly known as an analogy

Samsa · 10-01-2002, 07:52 PM

oh and anyways julio basically did his job <3. heh. his job. i'll send him some stuff in the mail as a reward. basically i have no obligation to justify my religion to anyone. especially not to scouse_dave.

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation:
because scientologists hold their members hostage, you moron:

just like catholic priests rape the alter-boys rite?

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa:
oh and anyways julio basically did his job <3. heh. his job. i'll send him some stuff in the mail as a reward. basically i have no obligation to justify my religion to anyone. especially not to scouse_dave.

it's not an obligation, sure...

nevertheless you complied tho...and gave me 4 mute excuses

but now...now that you realise you don't have a counter-argument...you don't feel obligated...convenient

fine with me

Undone · 10-01-2002, 07:56 PM

"from my experience, jews are the most self-centred, rude, stubborn, racist and downright annoying people i've ever come across"

Your lack of logic makes me want to tear my hair out. I think I'm getting a fucking ulcer. Congratulations buddy.

If you were judging merely from your experience, you'd realize that the small percentage of people you have met that just happened to be Jewish are not a representation of the whole. You would also realize that making the assumption that they are annoying because they are Jewish and not just because they are annoying people is incorrect.

Tessellation · 10-01-2002, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
just like catholic priests rape the alter-boys rite?

I have an intense dislike for organizing religion.

Samsa · 10-01-2002, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
it's not an obligation, sure...

nevertheless you complied tho...and gave me 4 mute excuses

but now...now that you realise you don't have a counter-argument...you don't feel obligated...convenient

fine with me

huh? i gave the first 4 i could think of, and i don't really think it's your place to decide if they're good reasons or not. it's absolutely wrong to make a value judgment on what someone enjoys. i'll ask you to tell me why you prefer indian food to any other food and argue with you on that, if you want.

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation:
I have an intense dislike for organizing religion.

so do i

Undone · 10-01-2002, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
it's not an obligation, sure...

nevertheless you complied tho...and gave me 4 mute excuses

but now...now that you realise you don't have a counter-argument...you don't feel obligated...convenient

fine with me

Have you ever thought for a second that people give up talking to you because they see you have no intention of acknowledging or learning or progressing?

Undone · 10-01-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
so do i

And so do I.

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undone:
Your lack of logic makes me want to tear my hair out. I think I'm getting a fucking ulcer. Congratulations buddy.

it wasn't logic at all, it was an observation...an opinion...you don't need 'logic' to make an observation

as for the representative thing...i've already said (may be in another thread) that yes, the people i met MAY not be representative of every single person in the jewish religion

don't you read?

jenn · 10-01-2002, 08:02 PM

Who said we all have to like everyone? Dave may not like Jews, but he's not shoving them into ovens... we're all entitled to our own beliefs. Even if they involve not liking an entire race of people. He's not comitting hate crimes, he's not telling everyone else to dislike Jews as well. He was honest about his feelings which was ballsy. I don't see why there is such a huge problem with this.

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undone:
Have you ever thought for a second that people give up talking to you because they see you have no intention of acknowledging or learning or progressing?

it's possible, yes

it's also possible that people find me annoying cos i'm right, yet they realise they don't have the arguing powers to 'defeat' me as it were...

defending religion is damn hard

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melancholia:
Who said we all have to like everyone? Dave may not like Jews, but he's not shoving them into ovens... we're all entitled to our own beliefs. Even if they involve not liking an entire race of people. He's not comitting hate crimes, he's not telling everyone else to dislike Jews as well. He was honest about his feelings which was ballsy. I don't see why there is such a huge problem with this.

*huge sigh*

thankyou

Affect · 10-01-2002, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scouse_dave:
it's possible, yes

it's also possible that people find me annoying cos i'm right, yet they realise they don't have the arguing powers to 'defeat' me as it were...

defending religion is damn hard

I just think you're a fuck because you're a fuck.

scouse_dave · 10-01-2002, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Affect:
I just think you're a fuck because you're a fuck.

well...thanks for your input...

10-01-2002, 07:30 PM	#92
scouse_dave Minion of Satan Location: Manchester Posts: 5,089	for the record, i have a catholic friend...who sometimes browses these very pages...that i think is stupid for being a catholic... he can't offer any justification for why he's a catholic...much like suze __________________ i could be a genius...if i put my mind to it

10-01-2002, 07:32 PM	#94
Undone Apocalyptic Poster Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,335	/end transmission. __________________ AIM: Sickly Heroic Me To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2002, 07:46 PM	#99
scouse_dave Minion of Satan Location: Manchester Posts: 5,089	the point is that everyone jumps up to defend the jews people aren't so charitable in their support for, say, scientologists.. __________________ i could be a genius...if i put my mind to it

10-01-2002, 07:56 PM	#109
Undone Apocalyptic Poster Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,335	"from my experience, jews are the most self-centred, rude, stubborn, racist and downright annoying people i've ever come across" Your lack of logic makes me want to tear my hair out. I think I'm getting a fucking ulcer. Congratulations buddy. If you were judging merely from your experience, you'd realize that the small percentage of people you have met that just happened to be Jewish are not a representation of the whole. You would also realize that making the assumption that they are annoying because they are Jewish and not just because they are annoying people is incorrect. __________________ AIM: Sickly Heroic Me To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2002, 08:02 PM	#116
jenn Minion of Satan Location: new york Posts: 6,325	Who said we all have to like everyone? Dave may not like Jews, but he's not shoving them into ovens... we're all entitled to our own beliefs. Even if they involve not liking an entire race of people. He's not comitting hate crimes, he's not telling everyone else to dislike Jews as well. He was honest about his feelings which was ballsy. I don't see why there is such a huge problem with this. __________________

10-01-2002, 07:52 PM	#106
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	oh and anyways julio basically did his job <3. heh. his job. i'll send him some stuff in the mail as a reward. basically i have no obligation to justify my religion to anyone. especially not to scouse_dave.

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