Straight up. Fuck Canada

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


That makes it a-ok!

that's what i was thinking

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


That makes it a-ok!

dude, i'm not saying it's a-ok -- it's just silly when people talk about america's history of exploiting other nations and sort of fail to mention that it's just the continuation of a, ugh. it's not just particular to western europe but it certainly has been a western european staple since what, the 16th century?

and i love how you accuse me of implying that america's exploitation of other nations is a-ok when i really just find it hypocritical or consciously ignorant when you say 'america has done this for the past 50 years bla bla bla' when, come on. *coughafricacough* or what have you.

[Samsa]

and because netphorians have a habit of sort of instead of actually arguing about the point and just harping on things i left out because i figured they were obvious (see deviousj - "and that makes it a-ok!") i will mention that when i say "you" in that last post i mean "vous"

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Samsa


dude, i'm not saying it's a-ok -- it's just silly when people talk about america's history of exploiting other nations and sort of fail to mention that it's just the continuation of a, ugh. it's not just particular to western europe but it certainly has been a western european staple since what, the 16th century?

and i love how you accuse me of implying that america's exploitation of other nations is a-ok when i really just find it hypocritical or consciously ignorant when you say 'america has done this for the past 50 years bla bla bla' when, come on. *coughafricacough* or what have you.

Yeah great, the 16th century. Very relevant to the present day. Since we don't have time machines yet, it's actually more practical to turn our attention to exploitation that's happening right now, and try and put a stop to that, than say 'well everyone else used to do it!' America is the most prominent superpower in the world now, and power/responsibility etc - a little vigilance is required.

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


Yeah great, the 16th century. Very relevant to the present day. Since we don't have time machines yet, it's actually more practical to turn our attention to exploitation that's happening right now, and try and put a stop to that, than say 'well everyone else used to do it!' America is the most prominent superpower in the world now, and power/responsibility etc - a little vigilance is required.

i'm not rationalizing it or saying it's okay to do it because everyone else did it. your brain doesn't work like mine. not everything is a means to an end. it wasn't a 'everybody else does it so why don't we'. it's just an observation. it was a non-normative statement and an observation. stop reflecting manipulative, argumentative qualities onto me. i don't have an agenda. i'm not trying to manipulate information to prove a point it was just a comment. and hmm you don't think past exploitations are relevant? cough africa cough? should i say that again? africa africa africa

???

[Samsa]

i mean this is the number one thing i hate about netphoria. you decide to leave something out because you figure it's obvious and people don't sort of realize the obviousness of their position and use it to argue with you.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Samsa


i'm not rationalizing it or saying it's okay to do it because everyone else did it. your brain doesn't work like mine. not everything is a means to an end. it wasn't a 'everybody else does it so why don't we'. it's just an observation. it was a non-normative statement and an observation. stop reflecting manipulative, argumentative qualities onto me. i don't have an agenda. i'm not trying to manipulate information to prove a point it was just a comment. and hmm you don't think past exploitations are relevant? cough africa cough? should i say that again? africa africa africa

???

Of course they're relevant as an effect, but the causes are no longer relevant when they're not acting any more. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, only to start repairing the damage - unlike US interests which are currently having a negative effect on other countries and cultures. That's what makes it more important. This thread was about someone's attitude towards Canada's stance on the world stage, and reactions to that, and then you come along and throw in an 'observation' about how the US wasn't the first. Obviously everyone knows that, and that wasn't the focus of the thread. You may only see it as an observation, but you must have been aware that one of two things would happen - people would ignore your comment completely, or it would derail the thread and take it in another direction. Don't act so surprised when people question the relevance of something you post.

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


Of course they're relevant as an effect, but the causes are no longer relevant when they're not acting any more. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, only to start repairing the damage - unlike US interests which are currently having a negative effect on other countries and cultures. That's what makes it more important. This thread was about someone's attitude towards Canada's stance on the world stage, and reactions to that, and then you come along and throw in an 'observation' about how the US wasn't the first. Obviously everyone knows that, and that wasn't the focus of the thread. You may only see it as an observation, but you must have been aware that one of two things would happen - people would ignore your comment completely, or it would derail the thread and take it in another direction. Don't act so surprised when people question the relevance of something you post.

i don't really care what the focus of the thread was. or what you think the point of my post was. i posted that in reaction to one post in particular which seemed to be highlighting every single bad thing the us has done ever -- not as a sort of preemptive measure to prevent further happenings, but really as a means of basic us-dissing. i think there's a difference between 'dissing' and 'preventive criticism' or whatever your fucking word was, and i'm not responding to people who want the us to not overthrow saddam. i'm responding to people who blab on and on about the united state's HISTORY of unwanted involvement in the world without failing to mention that this HISTORY is not peculiar to the united states.

[Samsa]

and the article wasn't just about american foreign policy. if you think that you're stupid. it was about canada's attitude towards america in general, including its domestic issues, which i don't think can be considered 'foreign policy' by any means. didn't the article mention health care? legislative reforms? that's foreign policy? don't say the thread is about something it's not and then accuse me of making an irrelevant post.

[Samsa]

ie, certain people like to accuse america of being the main cause of why the world is so fucked up today when really america has only been causing it for 50 years.

[DeviousJ]

The post was basically 'haha Canada sucks, they have shitty healthcare and a dumb political system' before evolving into 'they won't change because they hate America, even after all we've done for them, why are they getting in our way? Why are they standing up against us? How dare they say 9/11 wasn't entirely down to radical extremists who just want to blow westerners up?!' The whole part about Canada needing invading to get their military spending up, and make them a little more conducive to the US' view on terrorism - what does that have to do with their health system? Nothing, that's what. The author basically doesn't like Canada's attitude, and seems to want Canada to get hurt just so they'll feel the need to help out. The focus was 'Canada needs to get attacked, so they start being a little more aggressive.' People were turning that around by saying that maybe the US needs to stop being so aggressive, and maybe the world will stop resenting them. In this context, attempting to expand the topic by saying 'the US isn't the only country which has ever been aggressive' was just out of place. If you don't care what I think about that, then why complain about me dismissing it?

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Samsa
ie, certain people like to accuse america of being the main cause of why the world is so fucked up today when really america has only been causing it for 50 years.

Like I said, people complain because it is still going on. It's not just history, it's current events. This is what makes it more important - the past can't be affected. It's all very well to learn from what's happened previously, but don't let it distract you from things that are still within the realms of control

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
The post was basically 'haha Canada sucks, they have shitty healthcare and a dumb political system' before evolving into 'they won't change because they hate America, even after all we've done for them, why are they getting in our way? Why are they standing up against us? How dare they say 9/11 wasn't entirely down to radical extremists who just want to blow westerners up?!' The whole part about Canada needing invading to get their military spending up, and make them a little more conducive to the US' view on terrorism - what does that have to do with their health system? Nothing, that's what. The author basically doesn't like Canada's attitude, and seems to want Canada to get hurt just so they'll feel the need to help out. The focus was 'Canada needs to get attacked, so they start being a little more aggressive.' People were turning that around by saying that maybe the US needs to stop being so aggressive, and maybe the world will stop resenting them. In this context, attempting to expand the topic by saying 'the US isn't the only country which has ever been aggressive' was just out of place. If you don't care what I think about that, then why complain about me dismissing it?

a) it was an article that i don't think anyone really took seriously

b)i didn't even read the topic - i don't care what netphorians' foreign policy views are. i barely skimmed it.

c)i made a comment because i felt like it. as i said before i wasn't trying to argue any point about current us foreign policy -- it was simply a comment that *some* people sit around acting as if america always has been and always will be the only superpower in the world. well this just isn't true. it was just a comment. and you misinterpreted it. i mean think about it. does the 'if they did it why can't i' argument make any sense? no. so if it doesn't make any sense, why do you think that's what i'm trying to say? isn't that some scientific law, that if something doesn't make sense it's probably not true? you misinterpreted what i said because, i don't know, maybe preconceived notions about me or your own personal view about what this topic *should* be about. i made a semi-related post and you thought it had something to do with iraq. sux2beu

[DeviousJ]

So basically you made a reply in a thread you hadn't even read, and then get annoyed when people take it 'out of context'.


...

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


Like I said, people complain because it is still going on. It's not just history, it's current events. This is what makes it more important - the past can't be affected. It's all very well to learn from what's happened previously, but don't let it distract you from things that are still within the realms of control

listen james, did you not see where i said 'and by 'you' i mean VOUS' ?? i' mnot fucking talking to you or about you. i'm not referring to you. i don't think it's your place to speak for people i'm talking about that aren't you. i'm talking about a specific point of view or behaviour that i've observed -- you can't rationalize the point of view i've observed by combining it with YOUR point of view. YES it's still going on. but that's NOT what i was talking about. for the last time. jesus christ in hell. do you not understand? there isn't just one opinion or one thing that people say. we're talking about different things. you thought i was talking about what you were thinking about and i WASN'T. for the last fucking time. I AM TALKING ABOUT HISTORY. NOT CURRENT US FOREIGN POLICY. THEREFORE YOUR 'THE PAST CAN'T BE CHANGED' THING IS SORT OF A 'DUH AND YOUR POINT IS?' COMMENT BECAUSE I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT IRAQ AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE WAR ON TERROR.

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
So basically you made a reply in a thread you hadn't even read, and then get annoyed when people take it 'out of context'.


...

what context? this isn't a serious thread. i don't see any real argument or discussion occuring. i see general and random reactions to an article. it's not a fucking debate. there is no context. that's my point. YOU tried to give it a context that it didn't need or deserve. YOU misinterpreted something i said because of what you THOUGHT i was talking about, and you were wrong. i think it's really sad that you can't make any comment without putting some long disclaimer. you people tease me for making long long threads, well when i post a reply with a single sentence people misinterpret what i say and act as if i'm not aware of some OBVIOUS fact in relation to my statement.

[DeviousJ]

This is where I just give up

[Samsa]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
This is where I just give up

okay, you do that.

[kypper]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
This is where I just give up

I find it incredibly sad that someone can drive you, with your infinite patience, to actually give up intelligently responding.

DAMN YOU SUZE FOR WRECKING MY ILLUSIONS!

[scouse_dave]

so, suze 'wins' another argument

[scouse_dave]

it must be interesting to live in suze's little world

[Smiley33]

oh my fucking jesus

[scouse_dave]

ya know, a world where you're forced to post 5 times in a row cos your 'edit' button doesn't work

[scouse_dave]

a world where logic is meaningless and petty insults rule on high

[scouse_dave]

a world where everything you say is always right...no matter how incorrect it may appear

if it appears to be false, IT IS YOUR FAULT. you're probably stupid and don't understand.

[Smiley33]

imagine there are no winnars
the only one iz yuo
nothing to whine or argue
you're all fucking idiots and i hope you all die god nobody on netphoria is logical or anything i fucking swear julio tell them ehm.

[scouse_dave]

a world where people genuinely care about your liquid imbibing techniques, or how you have trouble keeping control of your bodily functions

[FearFactory]

Originally posted by scouse_dave
a world where people genuinely care about your liquid imbibing techniques, or how you have trouble keeping control of your bodily functions

don't forget her Jewish heritage!

Originally posted by Affect
If the U.S. were to launch a quick raid into Canada, blow up some symbolic but unoccupied structure -- Toronto's CN Tower, or perhaps an empty hockey stadium -- Canada would rearm overnight.

hahaha, I'm Canadian and dammit, that was still funny! chill people!

[Siva 2007]

Originally posted by tweedyburd
Anyhow, considering that Canada's health care system is flailing right now due to shortages in equipment, waiting lists that stretch into the horizon, and incompetent workers it's hardly a utopian system that some might like it to be.

I just wanted to mention that I don't think "incompetent workers" are part of the health care system's problems. Canadian hospital staff is just as competent as any other western country's. The problem lies only in the administration of the system. So much money is wasted in bureaucracy that in the end only a very small part of the budget allowed to health care ends up where it needs to be. Of course there are a million other things that don't quite work about that system, but I don't think I could even begin to sort that out. However, I guess you're right when you say that the idea of health care being free for every citizen is a utopia, to a certain extent. Does that mean that the American system is better? Probably not. Would a combination of both principles be the best solution? I don't know.. some people think so. But then again, a lot of people are against the idea of creating a gap between the population, even if it would mean faster service for everyone, the rich and the less fortunate. They still believe that Canada's duty is to remain closer to "socialism", even if we all know it doesn't work in a modern, realistic context.

PS:Since this is netphoria, I guess I better mention it now before the grammar police strikes; I know that my English is still far from perfection... at least I'm trying to improve.