taking the LSATS - anyone ever done them / thinking of doing them?

09-30-2002, 02:50 AM

My test is in about 5 days now and I've spent most of my studying time (re. not much at all) going over the LSAT preperation tests. Its a pretty cool exercise intellectually, because all the answers that you need are in the question but basically you have to cut through alot of bullshit to answer it or assume and extrapolate from the information like crazy.

sometimes its really interesting to work on and sometimes they're so frustrating you wanna pull you hair out. anyone else ever done the LSAT, or are thinking of taking them?

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I'm not gay.
I'm not gay.
But I dance around in a gay, gay way.

09-30-2002, 03:03 AM

I took the LSAT two years ago.

I walked out of the exam thinking I wasn't going to law school because I bombed the test. I actually made a 158 which isn't great but it was good enough to get me into second/third tier law schools despite having abominable college grades from a shitty shitty shitty shitty university.

But some people think the LSAT was easy.

If you have specific questions about the LSAT, I'd love to give my two cents. But it's hard to offer general advice that would help you beyond what you see in those sample exams.

One piece of advice though: DO NOT take one of those practice exams the night before the LSAT. You will fuck up on the exam because of anxiety for the following day's exam. And that will get in your head as you try to go to sleep and then when you wake up and take the test.

In fact, I'd quit prepping for the LSAT at least 24 hours before the exam if not more.

It's not a knowledge-based exam. It's purely application, as you can tell from the practice exams.

The practice exams are exactly like the real thing for the most part. The hard part is getting everything done in time, and not getting flustered when you struggle with a particular question or section of the exam.

Law school is not as hard as the LSAT would make you believe unless you are looking at one of the top 25 or so schools. I have friends at many schools and the only one who thinks law school is that difficult goes to Michigan.

09-30-2002, 03:31 AM

the time factor is I think is what is going to really fuck me up. I've been doing sections of the prep tests (actually, I picked up an LSAT prep book and have done a ton of questions so far) but I've just been, answering, checking answer, answering, etc. So far, on a good run, I've been averaging about 50/50 getting them right. I tried doing one of them in the alotted 30 mintue timespace and I just started freaking out.

I still have about 3 full practice exams to get through, I'm gonna start trying to do them in the aloted time space now. I think if I start spending too much time on a question, I'm just going to say "fuck this" circle one of the 5 and move onto the next one.

This is a minor thing that is bugging me: do they give you paper in the exam to write stuff out on (ie. I find its helpful to draw diagrams for the logic questions) or do you have to cram it all onto the test page? If its the later I'm gonna be very pissed off. my exam starts at 8:30 AM but I'm not quite sure when its going to be done by anyway...

thanxs.

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I'm not gay.
I'm not gay.
But I dance around in a gay, gay way.

09-30-2002, 04:05 AM

I would try to bring your own scratch paper, but if you are not allowed to then they must provide some extra paper.

I know that I had paper where I could do diagrams and stuff on. I just don't remmember if I provided it or if they provided it.

I think the exam should last till 12:30.

5 multiple choice sections - one of which does not count (how stupid is that) and then the written part. I think you get two 10-15 minute breaks.

If you struggle with a particular section you can stop it from getting to your psyche by reminding yourself that the damn section may not even count anyway.

BlueStar · 09-30-2002, 06:11 AM

They provide the scratch paper.

Bring as little stuff with you as possible. It is best just to show up with your id and two pencils.

I took the LSAT last October and was pretty disappointed with my score. Supposedly, they say that you do better on the actual test than you do on the practice tests. So I should have had an almost perfect score. But, I did all right...I got a 168. When I left the testing room, I felt like I had bombed it.

The average LSAT score for the top 10 law schools is 168. I managed to get into Columbia, NYU, and Georgetown. (Though I actually decided not to go to law school since I already have a master's from NYU, have no interest in being a lawyer, and already have major debt from loans to get my master's...though I did defer at NYU and Georgetown, so I could always go next year.) My roommate got a 165 and the best school she got into was George Washington.

Put A LOT of effort into your personal statement when applying to law school. Do a web search, there are some organizations that will review, revise, and rewrite your personal statement (for a fee, of course...and it is entirely legal and ok do). And pay attention to your extracurricular activities...do some volunteer work (like a political campaign or something) and some activities that exhibit leadership.

Also, I recommend taking a year or two off first...almost everyone does. I didn't, and I was already a year younger than most people in my graduating class...it's weird being so young and already having a master's degree...I've noticed that it weirds guys out and employers expect you to be at least in your late twenties before what they pay you will reflect the fact that you have an advanced degree. But, that it just all my experience.

Just try to relax. Put the damn practice tests away. Don't think so much/worry about your score. Get a goodnight's sleep and eat some breakfast. Best of luck! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

BlueStar · 09-30-2002, 06:13 AM

And really pay attention to the time. I always go too fast. Really, really make an effort to pace yourself and use all of your time and use it wisely. If your struggling with a particular question, just move on.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces:

I know that I had paper where I could do diagrams and stuff on. I just don't remmember if I provided it or if they provided it.

I think the exam should last till 12:30.

5 multiple choice sections - one of which does not count (how stupid is that) and then the written part. I think you get two 10-15 minute breaks.

Your prep book should go over all of this stuff. I used the Princeton Review prep book. The prep book should also give you tips and strategies for how to do each type of problem.

http://www.princetonreview.com/law/

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

10-01-2002, 12:24 PM

Not to question a supposed Ivy League-accepted law student like Blue Star, but one of piece of her advice is garbage.

Do not put too much time into the personal statement, and at this point if you haven't done community service don't sweat it. Unless you're planning on going to some liberal left wing law school like Harvard than community service is not going get you in or out of law school.

As far as the personal statement, the law school literature and law school administrators will tell you that prospective students put way too much time into the personal stamenent, often delaying their send of an application because they are trying to perfect the statement. It plays little if any role in the admissions committee decisions unless your statement is really bad and full of grammatical errors and typos.

Your GPA and LSAT scores make up at least 95% of the admissions decisions. Schools like Columbia can't afford to take kids with low LSAT or GPA or they will slip in the rankings. Unless you are a minority like me. Then you are held to a lower standard because diversity affects the US News Rankings too.

Generally your resume and personal statement may not even be looked at by a law school if you meet or fail to meet their admissions criteria.

In fact, aside from the GPA/LSAT calculus or the minority thing, the only thing that can save you is significant professional experience. Obviously if you have this it will be included on the resume and personal statement, but unless that is the case your personal statement and resume is just candy-coated b.s.

But then again, I didn't make a 168. And I did not defer admission to Columbia. Of course, I'm not quite sure that Blue Star did either.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces:
But then again, I didn't make a 168. And I did not defer admission to Columbia. Of course, I'm not quite sure that Blue Star did either.

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

I didn't defer admission at Columbia...I deferred at NYU and Georgetown. And yes, I did get into those schools and yes, I did get that score. Maybe the personal statment is bullshit...but from my research into law schools and from my speaking with law counselors, they really emphasized the importance of the personal statement.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

10-01-2002, 12:51 PM

I'm just giving you a hard time on the 168 LSAT/NYU thing. I have an inferiority complex about the LSAT and the top 25 law schools because I did not do well on the LSAT and did not get into one of the top law schools.

But regardless of what the statistics say about success in law school, I think the LSAT/UGPA calculus is weighted far too heavily. My stats were both in the bottom 25% of my entering class, but I am in the top 20% of my law school class in terms of actual grades.

Also, I've found law school counselors to be the most useless people on my campus, and on the campuses where I visited pre-law school.

They are the only people in the law schools (other than the secretarial types) who are not trained lawyers. They are just full of fluff and nonsense.

I had a good relationship with our late law school dean, and he told me point blank that the admissions committee does not even give a look to the vast majority of personal statements.

Most schools have a range of automatic acceptance and automatic rejection. They just plug in your scores. If you fall in the gray area, only then do they look at the personal statement, resume, community bullshit, etc.

But with the economy down and law school admissions up as much as three-fold, people who fall in the gray area will almost undoubtedly be wait-listed. At that point it's just a crap shoot. And trust me, if you are on a waiting list at a Top 25 school, you are not getting in unless you are very very lucky or very very connected or very very brown.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces:
If you fall in the gray area, only then do they look at the personal statement, resume, community bullshit, etc.

That's what I was getting at. There are a lot of people who fall into a school's range of acceptance, more than they can offer acceptance to. i.e. I'm sure NYU gets a lot of applicants with LSAT scores in the 160-180 range with GPAs in the 3.3-4.0 range. Thus, things like personal statement and whatnot come into play. Of course, if you don't fall into that range and apply to NYU, they aren't going to give a fuck about that stuff. So, in other words, your LSAT score and GPA determine what tier of schools you can apply to, but they don't determine whether or not you get in. My roommate scored 3 points lower than me on the LSAT (still well within the range of acceptable scores), but had a higher undergrad GPA, but she didn't get into Georgetown and I did...there must be some reason for that (i.e. personal statement, resume, extracurricular activities, etc.)

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces:
it's just a crap shoot.

I think this sums up all admissions. Basically, you just don't fucking know. So apply to some top schools and apply to some lesser schools and just see what happens.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

10-01-2002, 01:10 PM

I think you're on to something boss.

It's just that with the whole law school application craze (blame it on Law & Order: Special Victims Unit not the economy) a school which has 300 spots in the fall class is more likely to get 300 applications that fall into the automatic acceptance range than ever before. (Or at least since the LA Law-fueled admisssions craze in the late 80's, which supposedly really did happen).

I think your best point was that Ugly should consider putting law school off for a couple years, especiallyu if he/she is at all indecisive about the decision. Considering Ugly's preparation, at this point I would gander that he/she is a little indecisive about it.

Also, UGLY, one more piece of advice: Go to a school with a law school dorm. It is kick-fucking ass. Don't listen to the counselors when they say they have housing for grad studenets that is comparable to a law school dorm.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

Assman · 10-01-2002, 01:59 PM

BlueStar, would you have a problem mentioning what your undergrad gpa was? I'm a 2nd year pre-law guy at a pretty shit-tacular public university, hanging in there with a 3.57 right now but am wondering where i need to be to get into a top school. Basically i've just told myself that i'm only going to go to law school if i can get into a top 10-15 school, with Georgetown, Chicago, and Columbia being the early fave's. My reasoning behind this is basically that i'll be paying pretty much 100% of it with loans and the only way i'll be able to pay them back is if i will be getting paid nicely as soon as i graduate, and there will be a lot of starving lawyers from average schools by the time i graduate. Soooo....i'm figuring high 160's to low 170's on the LSAT, and just wondering what kind of GPA i'll have to put with that to get into a top school......

10-01-2002, 02:09 PM

You are very misinformed if you think the only way to make six figures is by going to a top-10 or 15 law school.

I go to a very average school and am interviewing with 10-plus firms who pay between 95K and 115K and the city I go to school in is not Chicago, New York or LA.

If you don't belive me, take a few minutes to research large law firms in your area. If you don't know any of their names go to martindale.com and search your city for "Law Firms" with "More than 150 attorneys." Look at the law firms' links for recruiting. Most of them do on campus interviews at schools beyond the top 15, and several interview at schools beyond the top tier, especially at local law schools.

If you can get in the top 10 to 20 percent of your class at a second-tier law school, I can tell you for a fact that you'll have no trouble commanding six figures. That is, if you wanna work for a law firm, which I don't.

But since you are clearly all about money, law school is definetely for you. You should see the looks on fellow law student's face when I tell them I am just interviewing with these people so I can take their money for one summer, but have zero intention of working for a firm post-graudation.

The typical law student has difficulty comprehending why I would choose the job satisfaction of a government legal job or in-house counsel over the 75-hour work week of a large firm paying six figures.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Assman:

My undergrad GPA was 3.3...but my last whatever hours GPA was higher (I don't remember if the law school apps asked for it, but on the grad school apps, they made you give the GPA for the most recent certain number of hours (basically junior and senior year), as was my major GPA. And I'm not sure how much it counted, but when applying to law school, I was finishing up my master's degree at NYU, so I was already going to a top 5 school and already pursuing an advanced degree and had a 3.7 GPA there. I believe my roommate's undergrad GPA was 3.6.

With a 3.57 you should be totally fine in applying to top law schools, pending a good LSAT score.

Just apply to all the top schools you like and just see what happens.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Assman:
Basically i've just told myself that i'm only going to go to law school if i can get into a top 10-15 school, with Georgetown, Chicago, and Columbia being the early fave's.

That was my thought too. And I got in and then deferred because I started to think that maybe I didn't really want to go to law school. If you really want to be a lawyer and really want to go to law school, you'll go anywhere you can...you won't only go if you can go to a top school. And after having a roommate currently in law school, I think I have definitely decided that law school isn't for me. I already have a MPA from a top 5 school (which is more than anyone else I know my age has), what more do I need? If I do back to school, I'd rather go for a Ph.D. or something. Not to mention the whole money thing...if law school was free, I might reconsider.

And the point of all that is... Make sure you really want to go law school and that you are going for the right reasons.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

10-01-2002, 02:23 PM

oh good, look how involved and complex admissions are too! *sigh*

well, it may be different because I'm in Ontario & slightly less competivite. I wouldn't mind staying right here at University of Western Ontario. (my dad went here too) But basically, I'm going to worry about admissions & stuff after I'm done the LSAT itself.

Quite frankly, the only thing I wanna put into my head is LSAT study, LSAT study, LSAT study. I did a lot last night but then I started zoning out which really sucked. My problem isn't rushing at all, its that I take WAYYY too much time to think things over & write down variables. Heck, yesterday on one of the analytical thinking questions, it took me about 5 minutes just to write down all the variables into charts, graphs, diagrams, etc. etc., before I had answered a single question. I still find I'm better at the Reading Comprehension and Logical Reasoning sections.

That essay part just sorta confuses me. I look at it and I'm like "what?"

well, I'm off to bury my head back in facts and reasoning. hurrah.

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I'm not gay.
I'm not gay.
But I dance around in a gay, gay way.

10-01-2002, 02:23 PM

Also depends how shit-tacular your university is. A 3.57 at some of the SUNY schools (just one example) is obvioulsy not gonna be given the same weight as someone from a school most of these Netphorians seem to go to.

I did the public shitacular thing too, so I'm not tyring to be condescending. Just honest.

But, Blue Star is right, if you do well on the LSAT and keep a 3.57 even at Frostburg State, you'll be fine.

I just like to argue. Especially when I'm getting paid to do nothing and am sitting in front of a computer.

In fact I think I am essentially contradicting my statements that UGAP/LSAT is all that matters by saying that the school you attend also matters. But, again it would probably only factor in if you are in that whole "gray area" thing.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces:
Also depends how shit-tacular your university is. A 3.57 at some of the SUNY schools (just one example) is obvioulsy not gonna be given the same weight as someone from a school most of these Netphorians seem to go to.

Totally true. So my whole GPA answer is more relevant if you know that I went to Loyola University of Chicago and my roommate went to University of Florida.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

Assman · 10-01-2002, 02:31 PM

Ace, i'm not all about money, but i am going to be paying for my law school by taking out 100-150k in loans, and i will have zero help from family in paying those back. I'm not saying that makes me special or different from your average law student, but i do want to ensure that i will be able to pay them back and maybe even live a middle class lifestyle at the same time after law school. I am happy to hear that more firms than i thought are paying well, but there are other things that draw me to a top school. I sacrificed the chance to go to very good undergrad schools, choosing rather to take a full scholarship to a very average public school so that i will be able to go to law school without taking several years off to pay for undergrad loans, and by graduating from undergrad debt-free i will be able to go all out when taking student loans for law school, allowing me to go to as good of a school as i can get into. Call me an elitist, but I am also attracted to the prestige of the top schools and the opportunities that they present, many of which pay extremely low such as excellent clerking opportunities and intership possibilites. Georgetown is also attractive to me because I love Washington and there is no better school if you're interested in international law or the relationship between law and politics. So like i said, my only interest in the $$$ is regarding the massive debt i'll be carrying after school, and if i get into a school that has good loan deferment and repayment programs you'll probably find me looking into highly lucrative fields such as high school english/goverment teacher or FBI employee.

BlueStar · 10-01-2002, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ugly:

That essay part just sorta confuses me. I look at it and I'm like "what?"

The essay part is bullshit. It was just added recently...and was added basically just because some people "don't test well" and are better at essay tests. Basically, all they are really looking for with the essay part is structure and lack of errors. Have an intro, a body, a conclusion, no spelling errors, and all your commas in place and you'll be fine.

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~*~Samantha~*~

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

10-01-2002, 02:32 PM

Assman,

I've been reminded of the one thing that sucks about going to a second-tier school.

No chicks like Blue Star to kick it with.

You won't find people with her alleged credentials at my school, I can tell you that. Especially no girls with MPA's from a top-5 school.

So on remand, study your ass of so you can get into a top-10 school where you'll meet intellectually superior young women in additon to landing a six figures job.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 02:36 PM

Assman:

Interestingly enough I went to a public school for literally the same exact reason. So good luck with all that.

Unfortunately my scholarship was guaranteed and I screwed off while I was there, thus preventing me from getting into a top law school.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 02:37 PM

Also depends how shit-tacular your university is. A 3.57 at some of the SUNY schools (just one example) is obvioulsy not gonna be given the same weight as someone from a school most of these Netphorians seem to go to.

I did the public shitacular thing too, so I'm not tyring to be condescending. Just honest.

But, Blue Star is right, if you do well on the LSAT and keep a 3.57 even at Frostburg State, you'll be fine.

I just like to argue. Especially when I'm getting paid to do nothing and am sitting in front of a computer.

In fact I think I am essentially contradicting my statements that UGAP/LSAT is all that matters by saying that the school you attend also matters. But, again it would probably only factor in if you are in that whole "gray area" thing.

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Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

Assman · 10-01-2002, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces:
I'm getting paid to do nothing and am sitting in front of a computer.

Nice.

Thanks for the info both of you....I just knew I'd hear that I needed 3.8-3.9 to get in anywhere. By the way the extremely avg. school is the University of Houston, which has probably been hanging out in the fourth tier since the dawn of time.

09-30-2002, 02:50 AM	#1
Ugly Posts: n/a	taking the LSATS - anyone ever done them / thinking of doing them? My test is in about 5 days now and I've spent most of my studying time (re. not much at all) going over the LSAT preperation tests. Its a pretty cool exercise intellectually, because all the answers that you need are in the question but basically you have to cut through alot of bullshit to answer it or assume and extrapolate from the information like crazy. sometimes its really interesting to work on and sometimes they're so frustrating you wanna pull you hair out. anyone else ever done the LSAT, or are thinking of taking them? ------------------ I'm not gay. I'm not gay. But I dance around in a gay, gay way.

09-30-2002, 06:11 AM	#5
BlueStar Newly independent Location: Some state's capitol building Posts: 7,242	They provide the scratch paper. Bring as little stuff with you as possible. It is best just to show up with your id and two pencils. I took the LSAT last October and was pretty disappointed with my score. Supposedly, they say that you do better on the actual test than you do on the practice tests. So I should have had an almost perfect score. But, I did all right...I got a 168. When I left the testing room, I felt like I had bombed it. The average LSAT score for the top 10 law schools is 168. I managed to get into Columbia, NYU, and Georgetown. (Though I actually decided not to go to law school since I already have a master's from NYU, have no interest in being a lawyer, and already have major debt from loans to get my master's...though I did defer at NYU and Georgetown, so I could always go next year.) My roommate got a 165 and the best school she got into was George Washington. Put A LOT of effort into your personal statement when applying to law school. Do a web search, there are some organizations that will review, revise, and rewrite your personal statement (for a fee, of course...and it is entirely legal and ok do). And pay attention to your extracurricular activities...do some volunteer work (like a political campaign or something) and some activities that exhibit leadership. Also, I recommend taking a year or two off first...almost everyone does. I didn't, and I was already a year younger than most people in my graduating class...it's weird being so young and already having a master's degree...I've noticed that it weirds guys out and employers expect you to be at least in your late twenties before what they pay you will reflect the fact that you have an advanced degree. But, that it just all my experience. Just try to relax. Put the damn practice tests away. Don't think so much/worry about your score. Get a goodnight's sleep and eat some breakfast. Best of luck! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif ------------------ ~~Samantha~~ http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-30-2002, 06:13 AM	#6
BlueStar Newly independent Location: Some state's capitol building Posts: 7,242	And really pay attention to the time. I always go too fast. Really, really make an effort to pace yourself and use all of your time and use it wisely. If your struggling with a particular question, just move on. ------------------ ~~Samantha~~ http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2002, 01:59 PM	#14
Assman Pledge Location: Houston Posts: 110	BlueStar, would you have a problem mentioning what your undergrad gpa was? I'm a 2nd year pre-law guy at a pretty shit-tacular public university, hanging in there with a 3.57 right now but am wondering where i need to be to get into a top school. Basically i've just told myself that i'm only going to go to law school if i can get into a top 10-15 school, with Georgetown, Chicago, and Columbia being the early fave's. My reasoning behind this is basically that i'll be paying pretty much 100% of it with loans and the only way i'll be able to pay them back is if i will be getting paid nicely as soon as i graduate, and there will be a lot of starving lawyers from average schools by the time i graduate. Soooo....i'm figuring high 160's to low 170's on the LSAT, and just wondering what kind of GPA i'll have to put with that to get into a top school...... __________________ Alright brain, I don't like you and you don't like me, but lets just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

10-01-2002, 02:31 PM	#21
Assman Pledge Location: Houston Posts: 110	Ace, i'm not all about money, but i am going to be paying for my law school by taking out 100-150k in loans, and i will have zero help from family in paying those back. I'm not saying that makes me special or different from your average law student, but i do want to ensure that i will be able to pay them back and maybe even live a middle class lifestyle at the same time after law school. I am happy to hear that more firms than i thought are paying well, but there are other things that draw me to a top school. I sacrificed the chance to go to very good undergrad schools, choosing rather to take a full scholarship to a very average public school so that i will be able to go to law school without taking several years off to pay for undergrad loans, and by graduating from undergrad debt-free i will be able to go all out when taking student loans for law school, allowing me to go to as good of a school as i can get into. Call me an elitist, but I am also attracted to the prestige of the top schools and the opportunities that they present, many of which pay extremely low such as excellent clerking opportunities and intership possibilites. Georgetown is also attractive to me because I love Washington and there is no better school if you're interested in international law or the relationship between law and politics. So like i said, my only interest in the $$$ is regarding the massive debt i'll be carrying after school, and if i get into a school that has good loan deferment and repayment programs you'll probably find me looking into highly lucrative fields such as high school english/goverment teacher or FBI employee. __________________ Alright brain, I don't like you and you don't like me, but lets just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

09-30-2002, 03:03 AM	#2
Boner Posts: n/a	I took the LSAT two years ago. I walked out of the exam thinking I wasn't going to law school because I bombed the test. I actually made a 158 which isn't great but it was good enough to get me into second/third tier law schools despite having abominable college grades from a shitty shitty shitty shitty university. But some people think the LSAT was easy. If you have specific questions about the LSAT, I'd love to give my two cents. But it's hard to offer general advice that would help you beyond what you see in those sample exams. One piece of advice though: DO NOT take one of those practice exams the night before the LSAT. You will fuck up on the exam because of anxiety for the following day's exam. And that will get in your head as you try to go to sleep and then when you wake up and take the test. In fact, I'd quit prepping for the LSAT at least 24 hours before the exam if not more. It's not a knowledge-based exam. It's purely application, as you can tell from the practice exams. The practice exams are exactly like the real thing for the most part. The hard part is getting everything done in time, and not getting flustered when you struggle with a particular question or section of the exam. Law school is not as hard as the LSAT would make you believe unless you are looking at one of the top 25 or so schools. I have friends at many schools and the only one who thinks law school is that difficult goes to Michigan.

09-30-2002, 03:31 AM	#3
Ugly Posts: n/a	the time factor is I think is what is going to really fuck me up. I've been doing sections of the prep tests (actually, I picked up an LSAT prep book and have done a ton of questions so far) but I've just been, answering, checking answer, answering, etc. So far, on a good run, I've been averaging about 50/50 getting them right. I tried doing one of them in the alotted 30 mintue timespace and I just started freaking out. I still have about 3 full practice exams to get through, I'm gonna start trying to do them in the aloted time space now. I think if I start spending too much time on a question, I'm just going to say "fuck this" circle one of the 5 and move onto the next one. This is a minor thing that is bugging me: do they give you paper in the exam to write stuff out on (ie. I find its helpful to draw diagrams for the logic questions) or do you have to cram it all onto the test page? If its the later I'm gonna be very pissed off. my exam starts at 8:30 AM but I'm not quite sure when its going to be done by anyway... thanxs. ------------------ I'm not gay. I'm not gay. But I dance around in a gay, gay way.

09-30-2002, 04:05 AM	#4
Boner Posts: n/a	I would try to bring your own scratch paper, but if you are not allowed to then they must provide some extra paper. I know that I had paper where I could do diagrams and stuff on. I just don't remmember if I provided it or if they provided it. I think the exam should last till 12:30. 5 multiple choice sections - one of which does not count (how stupid is that) and then the written part. I think you get two 10-15 minute breaks. If you struggle with a particular section you can stop it from getting to your psyche by reminding yourself that the damn section may not even count anyway.

10-01-2002, 12:24 PM	#8
Boner Posts: n/a	Not to question a supposed Ivy League-accepted law student like Blue Star, but one of piece of her advice is garbage. Do not put too much time into the personal statement, and at this point if you haven't done community service don't sweat it. Unless you're planning on going to some liberal left wing law school like Harvard than community service is not going get you in or out of law school. As far as the personal statement, the law school literature and law school administrators will tell you that prospective students put way too much time into the personal stamenent, often delaying their send of an application because they are trying to perfect the statement. It plays little if any role in the admissions committee decisions unless your statement is really bad and full of grammatical errors and typos. Your GPA and LSAT scores make up at least 95% of the admissions decisions. Schools like Columbia can't afford to take kids with low LSAT or GPA or they will slip in the rankings. Unless you are a minority like me. Then you are held to a lower standard because diversity affects the US News Rankings too. Generally your resume and personal statement may not even be looked at by a law school if you meet or fail to meet their admissions criteria. In fact, aside from the GPA/LSAT calculus or the minority thing, the only thing that can save you is significant professional experience. Obviously if you have this it will be included on the resume and personal statement, but unless that is the case your personal statement and resume is just candy-coated b.s. But then again, I didn't make a 168. And I did not defer admission to Columbia. Of course, I'm not quite sure that Blue Star did either. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 12:51 PM	#10
Boner Posts: n/a	I'm just giving you a hard time on the 168 LSAT/NYU thing. I have an inferiority complex about the LSAT and the top 25 law schools because I did not do well on the LSAT and did not get into one of the top law schools. But regardless of what the statistics say about success in law school, I think the LSAT/UGPA calculus is weighted far too heavily. My stats were both in the bottom 25% of my entering class, but I am in the top 20% of my law school class in terms of actual grades. Also, I've found law school counselors to be the most useless people on my campus, and on the campuses where I visited pre-law school. They are the only people in the law schools (other than the secretarial types) who are not trained lawyers. They are just full of fluff and nonsense. I had a good relationship with our late law school dean, and he told me point blank that the admissions committee does not even give a look to the vast majority of personal statements. Most schools have a range of automatic acceptance and automatic rejection. They just plug in your scores. If you fall in the gray area, only then do they look at the personal statement, resume, community bullshit, etc. But with the economy down and law school admissions up as much as three-fold, people who fall in the gray area will almost undoubtedly be wait-listed. At that point it's just a crap shoot. And trust me, if you are on a waiting list at a Top 25 school, you are not getting in unless you are very very lucky or very very connected or very very brown. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 01:10 PM	#13
Boner Posts: n/a	I think you're on to something boss. It's just that with the whole law school application craze (blame it on Law & Order: Special Victims Unit not the economy) a school which has 300 spots in the fall class is more likely to get 300 applications that fall into the automatic acceptance range than ever before. (Or at least since the LA Law-fueled admisssions craze in the late 80's, which supposedly really did happen). I think your best point was that Ugly should consider putting law school off for a couple years, especiallyu if he/she is at all indecisive about the decision. Considering Ugly's preparation, at this point I would gander that he/she is a little indecisive about it. Also, UGLY, one more piece of advice: Go to a school with a law school dorm. It is kick-fucking ass. Don't listen to the counselors when they say they have housing for grad studenets that is comparable to a law school dorm. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 02:09 PM	#15
Boner Posts: n/a	You are very misinformed if you think the only way to make six figures is by going to a top-10 or 15 law school. I go to a very average school and am interviewing with 10-plus firms who pay between 95K and 115K and the city I go to school in is not Chicago, New York or LA. If you don't belive me, take a few minutes to research large law firms in your area. If you don't know any of their names go to martindale.com and search your city for "Law Firms" with "More than 150 attorneys." Look at the law firms' links for recruiting. Most of them do on campus interviews at schools beyond the top 15, and several interview at schools beyond the top tier, especially at local law schools. If you can get in the top 10 to 20 percent of your class at a second-tier law school, I can tell you for a fact that you'll have no trouble commanding six figures. That is, if you wanna work for a law firm, which I don't. But since you are clearly all about money, law school is definetely for you. You should see the looks on fellow law student's face when I tell them I am just interviewing with these people so I can take their money for one summer, but have zero intention of working for a firm post-graudation. The typical law student has difficulty comprehending why I would choose the job satisfaction of a government legal job or in-house counsel over the 75-hour work week of a large firm paying six figures. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 02:23 PM	#18
Ugly Posts: n/a	oh good, look how involved and complex admissions are too! sigh well, it may be different because I'm in Ontario & slightly less competivite. I wouldn't mind staying right here at University of Western Ontario. (my dad went here too) But basically, I'm going to worry about admissions & stuff after I'm done the LSAT itself. Quite frankly, the only thing I wanna put into my head is LSAT study, LSAT study, LSAT study. I did a lot last night but then I started zoning out which really sucked. My problem isn't rushing at all, its that I take WAYYY too much time to think things over & write down variables. Heck, yesterday on one of the analytical thinking questions, it took me about 5 minutes just to write down all the variables into charts, graphs, diagrams, etc. etc., before I had answered a single question. I still find I'm better at the Reading Comprehension and Logical Reasoning sections. That essay part just sorta confuses me. I look at it and I'm like "what?" well, I'm off to bury my head back in facts and reasoning. hurrah. ------------------ I'm not gay. I'm not gay. But I dance around in a gay, gay way.

10-01-2002, 02:32 PM	#23
Boner Posts: n/a	Assman, I've been reminded of the one thing that sucks about going to a second-tier school. No chicks like Blue Star to kick it with. You won't find people with her alleged credentials at my school, I can tell you that. Especially no girls with MPA's from a top-5 school. So on remand, study your ass of so you can get into a top-10 school where you'll meet intellectually superior young women in additon to landing a six figures job. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 02:36 PM	#24
Boner Posts: n/a	Assman: Interestingly enough I went to a public school for literally the same exact reason. So good luck with all that. Unfortunately my scholarship was guaranteed and I screwed off while I was there, thus preventing me from getting into a top law school. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

10-01-2002, 02:37 PM	#25
Boner Posts: n/a	Also depends how shit-tacular your university is. A 3.57 at some of the SUNY schools (just one example) is obvioulsy not gonna be given the same weight as someone from a school most of these Netphorians seem to go to. I did the public shitacular thing too, so I'm not tyring to be condescending. Just honest. But, Blue Star is right, if you do well on the LSAT and keep a 3.57 even at Frostburg State, you'll be fine. I just like to argue. Especially when I'm getting paid to do nothing and am sitting in front of a computer. In fact I think I am essentially contradicting my statements that UGAP/LSAT is all that matters by saying that the school you attend also matters. But, again it would probably only factor in if you are in that whole "gray area" thing. ------------------ Texas is the reason that the President's dead.

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