no one deserves to be treated this way

[Mr_sister]

The bag over the head is actually what I object to the most. I understand the need for restraining prisoners, and at least they seem to have something to sit on - I'm guessing ti wasn't feasible to provide typical seating, and the soldiers there don't lok a lot more comfortable, aside from being able to walk around. But there is absolutely no need to blind and partially suffocate prisoners,

I hardly think that american soldiers would do anything without having a good reason for it. Perhaps they where just flying them to a secret base in the rocky mountains, thus being forced to blindfold them so they couldn't tell the people in Al-qaida.
And that's not suffocation, they are just preventing them from biting the guards.

[Smiley33]

What scares the shit out of me is the fact that we call them heathens for decapitating that journalist and taping it, and torturing every American they can get their hands on, but then I see some Americans (and Canadians) cheer when there's any needless cruelty toward the Afghanis. What the FUCK? How the fuck can we be so outraged when we celebrate the torture of other people? This "kill the towelhead" celebration is JUST AS FUCKING BAD as "kill the Americans" because fucking torturing someone is nothing to cheer about. EVER. Absoloutely nothing.

[Affect]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


The bag over the head is actually what I object to the most. I understand the need for restraining prisoners, and at least they seem to have something to sit on - I'm guessing ti wasn't feasible to provide typical seating, and the soldiers there don't lok a lot more comfortable, aside from being able to walk around. But there is absolutely no need to blind and partially suffocate prisoners, especially at altitude when breathing is already more difficult. And of course it's sensory depravation - they can't move, they can't see, they can't hear, they can't communicate with anyone in any way, they have no idea of the time or their location... I'd like to hear your definition if that doesn't come close.

Of course, knowing these conditions were pretty much maintained upon their arrival colors my judegement a little. If I'd thought this was merely temporary for the sake of transporting them I might be less critical.

The transportation of these prisoners was very likely prior to heavy interrogation. From what I've read, the bulk of intelligence gathering was handled in Cuba. Strictly for security reasons, it was imperative that the prisoners didn't communicate with one another. In a perfect world, they would have all been kept separate from one another. During transport, they didn't know if they had an Taliban General, or an Afghani shop keep.

They weren't bagged and gagged just for the 'fun' of it. They were treated just like any other country treats their prisoners of war. And it's extremely likely that they were treated better. They were all given medical treatment. Fed. And after this transport, cleaned, shaven, and set up with new clothes. This was a military offensive. They aren't going to charter a 747 to move these prisoners half way around the globe.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Affect
The transportation of these prisoners was very likely prior to heavy interrogation. From what I've read, the bulk of intelligence gathering was handled in Cuba. Strictly for security reasons, it was imperative that the prisoners didn't communicate with one another. In a perfect world, they would have all been kept separate from one another. During transport, they didn't know if they had an Taliban General, or an Afghani shop keep.

They weren't bagged and gagged just for the 'fun' of it. They were treated just like any other country treats their prisoners of war. And it's extremely likely that they were treated better. They were all given medical treatment. Fed. And after this transport, cleaned, shaven, and set up with new clothes. This was a military offensive. They aren't going to charter a 747 to move these prisoners half way around the globe.

But that's all part of the Geneva Convention on POWs. The detaining power is responsible for their medical care and is bound to provide treatment for free. However, prisoners are only required to give their name, rank and unit - therefore interrogation is illegal, and so the treatment on the plane can't be justified. That's why the military was so quick to claim they weren't actually prisoners of war.

Article 46

The Detaining Power, when deciding upon the transfer of prisoners of war, shall take into account the interests of the prisoners themselves, more especially so as not to increase the difficulty of their repatriation.

The transfer of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and in conditions not less favourable than those under which the forces of the Detaining Power are transferred. Account shall always be taken of the climatic conditions to which the prisoners of war are accustomed and the conditions of transfer shall in no case be prejudicial to their health.

The Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war during transfer with sufficient food and drinking water to keep them in good health, likewise with the necessary clothing, shelter and medical attention. The Detaining Power shall take adequate precautions especially in case of transport by sea or by air, to ensure their safety during transfer, and shall draw up a complete list of all transferred prisoners before their departure.


Obviously they have to be restrained, but there are limits. I know *why* it was done, I'm just saying it was wrong to do it.

[Affect]

Originally posted by Smiley33
What scares the shit out of me is the fact that we call them heathens for decapitating that journalist and taping it, and torturing every American they can get their hands on, but then I see some Americans (and Canadians) cheer when there's any needless cruelty toward the Afghanis. What the FUCK? How the fuck can we be so outraged when we celebrate the torture of other people? This "kill the towelhead" celebration is JUST AS FUCKING BAD as "kill the Americans" because fucking torturing someone is nothing to cheer about. EVER. Absoloutely nothing.

What the fuck are you talking about? No one here is cheering the fact that these POW's were temporarily inconvenienced. They aren't being kicked around. They aren't being hurt. Are you fucking blind? Seriously?

I would rather see 300 POW's inconvenienced, than see one person die. The intelligence gathered by the US from these prisoners saved lives.

In your perfect unrealistic world, how would have you transported 200 Taliban soldiers?

[Mr_sister]

Yes, it implicitly inferrs that.

Nah, it explicitly inferrs that if i look at the big picture, it sucks.

[lolololololzing]

Originally posted by ******
War is a good excuse for treating people like this.

But what's a good excuse for war?

Fuck, just shut up you hippie. That's the dumbest quote i've ever read. Almost as dumb as this one;

"i'd rather have no money and weed, then to have no weed and lots of money"

You probably came up with that stupid quote too you fucking hippie. Go listen to Dave Matthews.

[Mr_sister]

And implicitly it says the same thing.

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by Affect
What the fuck are you talking about? No one here is cheering the fact that these POW's were temporarily inconvenienced. They aren't being kicked around. They aren't being hurt. Are you fucking blind? Seriously?

I would rather see 300 POW's inconvenienced, than see one person die. The intelligence gathered by the US from these prisoners saved lives.

In your perfect unrealistic world, how would have you transported 200 Taliban soldiers?

]

I'm fucking offtopic. Happy? I'm not fucking talking about the first post in this thread. The first response was about war, which turned into people defining characteristics of war, which turned into people talking about human decency. The subjects in this thread don't go in a straight line.

In my perfect unrealistic world, I still wouldn't be the person transporting the people in the first place.

[Affect]

Well, you just fucked it all up, Ms. Smiley.

Thanks.

[Smiley33]

isn't it customary to blindfold POW's when you transport them?

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by Affect
Well, you just fucked it all up, Ms. Smiley.

Thanks.

You're welcome, Mr. Affect. Someone's got to do it when Suze isn't online.

[Apart]

to all of you sorry, opinionated pieces of shit that posted your whiny bitchy bable here, many people are tortured to death EVERY day. so nyah. deal with it you weak & sorry pussies.

what a bunch of fucking babies....heh.

[jared]

shit the ride on the school bus was worse than that looks

[ZERO]

Originally posted by severin


i wouldn't bet a cent on this. of course there is an oppositin (like everywhere), but i think that the main part of the population actually is quite fond of saddam. they ahve been teached from small age on, that the west is responsible for their shitty situation, so why should they hate saddam

Bullshit.

I don't understand how you can say something like this. Iraqis are not blind when it comes to politics. If anything, they understand more than any of us only because it's been an integral part of their lives "since they were young". And afterall, they're the ones living there. The majority of the people in Iraq are against the regime. The people YOU see on television are out supporting Saddam because they really don't have much choice. Anybody who speaks up against the ugly bastard is executed. What would you expect?

Of course they have a bad impression about the American govt. But then again, who doesn't in the Middle East? And that is a totally different topic.

[severin]

Originally posted by ZERO


Bullshit.

I don't understand how you can say something like this. Iraqis are not blind when it comes to politics. If anything, they understand more than any of us only because it's been an integral part of their lives "since they were young". And afterall, they're the ones living there. The majority of the people in Iraq are against the regime. The people YOU see on television are out supporting Saddam because they really don't have much choice. Anybody who speaks up against the ugly bastard is executed. What would you expect?

Of course they have a bad impression about the American govt. But then again, who doesn't in the Middle East? And that is a totally different topic.

ok, perhaps i wasn't clear enough....i think, that a lot of the people in iraq rather have saddam as a dictator than a us-generated government after a war. the iraqi people are among the least educated in the world. so they are much easier to influence and more likely to believe propaganda than other people. of course they know that their situation right now sucks, and of course they fear the regime. but i'm not sure if they would support a change

[Eulogy]

Um.

I don't really see a huge problem.

Maybe the bags over the heads idea was a little much...but really...you can't just fucking throw handcuffs on them.

Yeah...I don't really have a point. Ignore me.

[AndySlash]

The transfer of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and in conditions not less favourable than those under which the forces of the Detaining Power are transferred.

What the fuck...

This then is saying that there should be no restraints whatsoever, since anything less than what the American soldiers have and can do is "less favourable". The addition of just handcuffs, which a couple people who have said is the only thing that should have been done, would be deemed "less favourable" and thus go against this rule, so those of you stating the rules have been violated must want the prisoners to be able to roam free throughout the plane? That's bullshit. These people are prisoners, they should be restrained.

I do not see anything wrong with these specific pictures. The prisoners are being detained as such for reasons Affect, the only voice of reason in this thread it seems, has stated. Has anybody stopped to think that in addition to preventing communication, the earpieces and the mouth/nose filters are protecting the prisoners from hearing loss from the plane noise and the "stench of piss and shit"? As for the blindfolds, who is to say that the prisoners don't have ways of communicating with just their eyes? It seems fairly reasonable to me to prevent them from seeing.


Someone stated that the prisoners were being kicked- is this an assumption or is there accompanying text to these photos somewhere that prove that? If so I missed that. Now, if the prisoners were being kicked or otherwise beaten, and I certainly wouldn't put it past some of the 'great men and women of the US Armed Forces', then I'd have a problem. But nothing in any of these photos shows that type of activity occuring.

[Apart]

we ought to slap all you idiots into a time machine and send your petty asses back to WW2. you babies would *never* stop bitching and whining...man oh man.

[Undone]

The transport itself doesn't seem so unreasonable I guess, as long as they weren't being kicked around or anything. I'm more in agreeance with Desi in the attitude of a lot of people, regardless of nation, being the problem. The classic us v. them vengeful childish shit. *shrug*

actually, its a prisoner transport. a little harsh, sure, but its a prisoner transport. war is gritty, ugly & mean. at least they didn't outright execute them.

the only thing that kinda seems creepy about the whole deal is that huge American flag hanging right above thier heads (which is kinda pointless if they have blindfolds on). that's just rubbing it in.

while I don't agree with slapping up every single Talliban and throwing them in Guit-Mo (for all the reasons mentioned, I highly doubt every single one was a blood-thirsty terrorist) what they set up is pretty damned effective. isolate them totally. give them crappy living conditions. grill them for information. cold blooded, sure, but probably effective.

[Undone]

Originally posted by Apart
to all of you sorry, opinionated pieces of shit that posted your whiny bitchy bable here, many people are tortured to death EVERY day. so nyah. deal with it you weak & sorry pussies.

what a bunch of fucking babies....heh.

But when a particular action is preventable, why not take the means to prevent it? (not that I'm saying this is torture, I think I assumed a bit coming into this thread)

I know I'm just going to get a "STUPID FUCKING CUNT LOL LOL LOLOLOLOLOLLOOOOFUHFUCKING GOD YUR THE FUUNNIEST SUTPID FUCK LOLOLOLOL", but I guess I felt the need to talk to a crazy mofo today.

[Apart]

Originally posted by Undone


I guess I felt the need to talk to a crazy mofo today.

wow, you are really, really fucking stupid. you surely belong here...hahaha..
than you'll probably be talking to yourself all day, wont you?
it's fucking hilarious how you call others crazy...the biggest hypocrite of all..haha...complete fucking loser. watching you and your pathetic life in denial is great.

[Undone]

Originally posted by Apart


wow, you are really, really fucking stupid. you surely belong here...hahaha..
than you'll probably be talking to yourself all day, wont you?
it's fucking hilarious how you call others crazy...the biggest hypocrite of all..haha...complete fucking loser. watching you and your pathetic life in denial is great.

Thanks. You're always one to follow through with my high expectations.

[Kentaro]

Question: Is the U.S. soldier in the first pic hiding his face on purpose or is he just stressed out/ tired?

[Apart]

Originally posted by Undone


Thanks. You're always one to follow through with my high expectations.

more idiocy babble. man, you really are a pure fucking moron.

aw, and looky there...posting so often on a saturday night. HUGE surprise! loser.

[Travis Meekz]

you people are so fucking stupid sometimes. 'it's called war'

they are prisoners of war being flown by the army. they are secured to the plane with straps and handcuffs with their eyes covered. sorry but i fail to see the outrage

[Apart]

Originally posted by Travis Meeks
you people are so fucking stupid sometimes. 'it's called war'

they are prisoners of war being flown by the army. they are secured to the plane with straps and handcuffs with their eyes covered. sorry but i fail to see the outrage

"sometimes"? heh...

[Travis Meekz]

Originally posted by Apart


"sometimes"? heh...

typo

[kypper]

Originally posted by severin
this is one way how to see it, and i don't say, that everything anti-american that goes on in europe is based on truths, but i think one of the reasons why we can criticize america is because we don't live there. we do not have that media-powered, patriotism, which is pushed whenever it might fit and is forgotten (or is at least not as powerful) when it is not needed. we look into the usa from the outside and are therefore able to see connections and possible reasons that you can't from the inside...my 2 cents

i agree... from little ol' Canada.