no one deserves to be treated this way

[Mr_sister]

do hardly nothing

Maybe we could have this conversation in swedish instead? I'm sure you would do a great job at it

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by Affect
Would you prefer first class. Possibly the option of duck or veal?

This is transport of prisoners of war. They are being transported in an ARMY transport plane. They are all considered dangerous.

Two days earlier, these fucking towel heads were trying to kill American soldiers. They deserve this, and then some.

America did not violate their rights as prisoners of war. What the fuck is wrong with you morons?

Europe's pretty good at the whole anti-American thing. My relatives were telling me that there are books going around Europe (at least France) about how the US fabricated a story about how the pentagon was fucked up on 9/11 just "for sympathy." Personally, I don't support all of Bush's actions and I honestly can't wait until his fucking term is over, but the attitude I see Europe adopting is just as fucking poor. I'm kind of getting tired of these people saying shit like "Americans are war-hungry" because it's just as dumb a generalisation as "Europeans don't bathe." You don't fucking know what Americans are like because you don't fucking live here. European media is just as skewed and as shitty as American media.

[Affect]

Originally posted by Smiley33


Europe's pretty good at the whole anti-American thing. My relatives were telling me that there are books going around Europe (at least France) about how the US fabricated a story about how the pentagon was fucked up on 9/11 just "for sympathy." Personally, I don't support all of Bush's actions and I honestly can't wait until his fucking term is over, but the attitude I see Europe adopting is just as fucking poor. I'm kind of getting tired of these people saying shit like "Americans are war-hungry" because it's just as dumb a generalisation as "Europeans don't bathe." You don't fucking know what Americans are like because you don't fucking live here. European media is just as skewed and as shitty as American media.

Where's the relevance?

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by Affect
Where's the relevance?

sorry. I deleted the relevant part.

[Mr_sister]

Europe's pretty good at the whole anti-American thing. My relatives were telling me that there are books going around Europe (at least France) about how the US fabricated a story about how the pentagon was fucked up on 9/11 for sympathy. Personally, I neither support all of Bush's actions and I honestly can't wait until his fucking term is over, but the attitude I see Europe adopting is just as fucking poor. I'm kind of getting tired of these people saying shit like "Americans are war-hungry" because it's just as dumb a generalisation as "Europeans don't bathe." You don't fucking know what Americans are like because you don't fucking live here. European media is just as skewed and as shitty as American media.

Is this something directed towards me?
USA sucks for these reasons

1. the country has a fucked up political system which helps in keeping the poorer people of your society down.

2. USA has idiotic laws for guns, there is the death penalty, a bunch of abortionhata's, bad healthcar system.. the people who rule the country doesn't give a damn about poluting etc etc.

My country is better on those points, but it sucks too. And you're right, a lot of people, especially on the left wing, dislikes USA for example here in sweden, but there are also a lot of people who thinks its the greatest country in the world. I've never stated that USA is a war hungry nation..or have i?

[severin]

Originally posted by Smiley33


Europe's pretty good at the whole anti-American thing. My relatives were telling me that there are books going around Europe (at least France) about how the US fabricated a story about how the pentagon was fucked up on 9/11 just "for sympathy." Personally, I don't support all of Bush's actions and I honestly can't wait until his fucking term is over, but the attitude I see Europe adopting is just as fucking poor. I'm kind of getting tired of these people saying shit like "Americans are war-hungry" because it's just as dumb a generalisation as "Europeans don't bathe." You don't fucking know what Americans are like because you don't fucking live here. European media is just as skewed and as shitty as American media.

this is one way how to see it, and i don't say, that everything anti-american that goes on in europe is based on truths, but i think one of the reasons why we can criticize america is because we don't live there. we do not have that media-powered, patriotism, which is pushed whenever it might fit and is forgotten (or is at least not as powerful) when it is not needed. we look into the usa from the outside and are therefore able to see connections and possible reasons that you can't from the inside...my 2 cents

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by Mr_sister


Is this something directed towards me?
USA sucks for these reasons

1. the country has a fucked up political system which helps in keeping the poorer people of your society down.

2. USA has idiotic laws for guns, there is the death penalty, a bunch of abortionhata's, bad healthcar system.. the people who rule the country doesn't give a damn about poluting etc etc.

My country is better on those points, but it sucks too. And you're right, a lot of people, especially on the left wing, dislikes USA for example here in sweden, but there are also a lot of people who thinks its the greatest country in the world. I've never stated that USA is a war hungry nation..or have i?

no, because I have no idea who the hell you are. I had no idea that you were even from Sweden until the above post. This was not in response to you.

One of the easiest things to do is to say that the way governments are run suck. Well, duh. Look at the state of the world right now. How the hell did it come to this? The world has been and will probably always be full of power hungry people who don't give a damn about the following generation or the future of the human race. They want to make a point during the brief time they're on the Earth, regardless of whether it's at the expense of generations to come.

The United States is not as liberal in many ways compared to Europe. They also haven't been around quite as long. But just because it works for Europe doesn't mean it's going to work for the US. The US is like a rebellious child. It doesn't want to grow up to be just like its parents. After a while, hopefully before the world goes up in fucking flames, it'll relax. But remember that it's a young country when you compare it to Europe and Europe's views. Comparing the US to Euope is kind of silly in that way, because it's not like Europe has the perfect history.

[Smiley33]

Originally posted by severin
this is one way how to see it, and i don't say, that everything anti-american that goes on in europe is based on truths, but i think one of the reasons why we can criticize america is because we don't live there. we do not have that media-powered, patriotism, which is pushed whenever it might fit and is forgotten (or is at least not as powerful) when it is not needed. we look into the usa from the outside and are therefore able to see connections and possible reasons that you can't from the inside...my 2 cents

I agree with your last statement. It's always easier to pick out problems from the outside, especially when you don't feel that you're benefiting from what's going on. That goes for everywhere though. I just really cringe when I see people so gung-ho on the whole "USA SUCKS" or "CANADA SUCKS" or "EUROPE SUCKS." That attitude is as stupid as it gets. The media doesn't help to get rid of these attitudes, I know. It perpetuates them on the most part. But I think we need to take responsibility for and identify our own faults before we can point the finger, and that goes for citizens of countries and their leaders. Augh, I fuckign hate politics.

[aldango]

Originally posted by Affect
Two days earlier, these fucking towel heads were trying to kill American soldiers. They deserve this, and then some.

America did not violate their rights as prisoners of war. What the fuck is wrong with you morons?

I'm sure the American soldiers were trying to kill the 'towel heads' too.

And what the fuck is wrong with you, moron? Look at the fucking document.

[Affect]

"Okay, Mr. Taliban's and Mr. Al Queda. I'm going to be your escort back to the big American ARMY base. Would any of you care for champagne while we are on this really long flight? Can I get a blanket for you? Okay, if there's anything that I can do to make your trip more comfortable, please let me know."

Jesus Christ, you're retarded kid.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Smiley33


no, because I have no idea who the hell you are. I had no idea that you were even from Sweden until the above post. This was not in response to you.

One of the easiest things to do is to say that the way governments are run suck. Well, duh. Look at the state of the world right now. How the hell did it come to this? The world has been and will probably always be full of power hungry people who don't give a damn about the following generation or the future of the human race. They want to make a point during the brief time they're on the Earth, regardless of whether it's at the expense of generations to come.

The United States is not as liberal in many ways compared to Europe. They also haven't been around quite as long. But just because it works for Europe doesn't mean it's going to work for the US. The US is like a rebellious child. It doesn't want to grow up to be just like its parents. After a while, hopefully before the world goes up in fucking flames, it'll relax. But remember that it's a young country when you compare it to Europe and Europe's views. Comparing the US to Euope is kind of silly in that way, because it's not like Europe has the perfect history.

I think this is less about saying governments suck, and more about countries are presenting themselves to the world. When pictures like this get out, it just shows the US are *not* as good and perfect as they claim to be. It may be obvious, but when it contradicts the impression that they're trying to put forward... it shows a complete lack of integrity. And that means people begin to doubt intentions and motives, and it fosters mistrust in countries who are increasingly feeling a US influence.

As for the whole 'OH THEY WERE TRYING TO KILL AMERICANS, THEY DESERVE IT' angle, no shit - they're soldiers. That's what soldiers do when a hostile force invades their country. You can talk about how evil the Taliban were and how they treated their own people, but the same thing is happening in Iraq now. The people hate Saddam, but they're uniting to defend their country.

[beef curtains]

Originally posted by strange_one
the stench of piss and shit in there would be awful

I'd settle just to see pics of the piss and shit.

[Affect]

Yeah, maybe they could have given them all rides back in F-16's. Suit them all up in their complimentary flight suits. Helmets with their terrorist names printed on the sides. It would have been super fun!

[aldango]

Originally posted by Affect
"Okay, Mr. Taliban's and Mr. Al Queda. I'm going to be your escort back to the big American ARMY base. Would any of you care for champagne while we are on this really long flight? Can I get a blanket for you? Okay, if there's anything that I can do to make your trip more comfortable, please let me know."

Jesus Christ, you're retarded kid.

I wasn't saying that, moron.

They could have just handcuffed them. I mean, what's the most they would do? Start kicking people. Woo. The soldiers have guns; the prisoners don't need to be fucking tied to the walls with bags over their heads in shackles. What do they gain by that?

Jesus Christ, you're retarded.

edit: What I'm trying to say is, they didn't need to be unnecessarily inhumane about it.

[Affect]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


...no shit...

So, your view on the topic?

[severin]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


The people hate Saddam.

i wouldn't bet a cent on this. of course there is an oppositin (like everywhere), but i think that the main part of the population actually is quite fond of saddam. they ahve been teached from small age on, that the west is responsible for their shitty situation, so why should they hate saddam

[Mr_sister]

I agree with your last statement. It's always easier to pick out problems from the outside, especially when you don't feel that you're benefiting from what's going on. That goes for everywhere though. I just really cringe when I see people so gung-ho on the whole "USA SUCKS" or "CANADA SUCKS" or "EUROPE SUCKS." That attitude is as stupid as it gets. The media doesn't help to get rid of these attitudes, I know. It perpetuates them on the most part. But I think we need to take responsibility for and identify our own faults before we can point the finger, and that goes for citizens of countries and their leaders. Augh, I fuckign hate politics.

(irony) I agree, it's like , when you say that a nazi is stupid for killing a jew, you should really shut up, because you spank your kitty at home and haven't told anyone. It's the same thing with me saying that USA sucks. In sweden, we are fishing out all the fgslkö (seamun, seamin?,,,,something like that, a fish anyway) from the baltic sea, thus we shouldn't say antyhing about USA poluting the world with carbondioxide. (irony)

(not irony)
And of course, saying that USA sucks isn't actually to say that everything sucks in the country. If you say "HEY this hockeyteam sucks" it doesn't mean that everyone in the team sucks.

[Affect]

Originally posted by zekix


I wasn't saying that, moron.

They could have just handcuffed them. I mean, what's the most they would do? Start kicking people. Woo. The soldiers have guns; the prisoners don't need to be fucking tied to the walls with bags over their heads in shackles. What do they gain by that?

Jesus Christ, you're retarded.

It's called security, idiot. And you can't have enough of it. That is the protocol for transporting prisoners of war. They aren't going to only be handcuffed, and propped up in a 747. Are you like six? Shit.

[Affect]

Originally posted by Mr_sister
If you say "HEY this hockeyteam sucks" it doesn't mean that everyone in the team sucks.

Yes, it implicitly inferrs that.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by severin


i wouldn't bet a cent on this....i wouldn't bet a cent on this. of course there is an oppositin (like everywhere), but i think that the main part of the population actually is quite fond of saddam. they ahve been teached from small age on, that the west is responsible for their shitty situation, so why should they hate saddam

Obviously there is support for him - I'm talking about those in opposition, who aren't prepared to let a foreign power just walk in shooting things up and taking control. Obviously he does have some support, it would be pretty hard to run a plutocracy where the entire population wants you out

[Affect]

Originally posted by severin


i wouldn't bet a cent on this....i wouldn't bet a cent on this. of course there is an oppositin (like everywhere), but i think that the main part of the population actually is quite fond of saddam. they ahve been teached from small age on, that the west is responsible for their shitty situation, so why should they hate saddam

Read about the INC, kid.

[aldango]

Originally posted by Affect
It's called security, idiot. And you can't have enough of it. That is the protocol for transporting prisoners of war. They aren't going to only be handcuffed, and propped up in a 747. Are you like six? Shit.

Ok, whatever. Thanks for informing me on the wonderful ways of prisoner transport protocol. I'm sure I'll worship you someday for enlightening my life.



Why the hell are you attacking me when I'm just reinstating what other people have said?

edit: What if the Taliban took a shitload of Americans captive and did the same thing? I bet a bunch of people (like you) would be like "OMG U R BEIN SO MEEN TO EM AMERICANZ SHULD NOT BE TREETED LIKE DAT!!" HM maybe because they shouldn't.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Affect
So, your view on the topic?

On what? Whether they were trying to kill Americans? If you mean in general, like I said I think a 15 hour flight with a bag over your head and total sensory deprivation amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. If anything, it seems more like a lash out at the nearest target - Bin Laden got away, so we'll make sure these fucking Taliban soldiers feel the wrath of America dammit. They'll wish they'd never been born... in Afghanistan.

[Affect]

Because you're fucking retarded. Plain and simple.

[aldango]

Originally posted by Affect
Because you're fucking retarded. Plain and simple.

That makes two of us, plain and simple.

[severin]

Originally posted by Affect
Read about the INC, kid.

don't call me kid, fuckhead. i'm older than you

[Affect]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


On what? Whether they were trying to kill Americans? If you mean in general, like I said I think a 15 hour flight with a bag over your head and total sensory deprivation amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. If anything, it seems more like a lash out at the nearest target - Bin Laden got away, so we'll make sure these fucking Taliban soldiers feel the wrath of America dammit. They'll wish they'd never been born... in Afghanistan.

That's hardly sensory depravation. They are blinded to make it more difficult to lash out. That transport plane is extremely small, and the security of the prisoners and soldiers is their biggest priority. I don't see anything wrong with putting a bag over a someone's head.

Let me remind you, these are prisoners. This isn't fucking torture.

[Affect]

Originally posted by severin
don't call me kid, fuckhead. i'm older than you

Your views sure as hell don't seem more mature. Coupled with your vocabulary, I seriously doubt that.

[severin]

Originally posted by Affect
Your views sure as hell don't seem more mature. Coupled with your vocabulary, I seriously doubt that.

you know, the use of the word "fuckhead" was just a little reference to your custom-title..but nontheless. i personally think that my views are in fact pretty mature, and also my way of argumenting them. you know i'm not the one who just stands on a statement and arguments like "but they worked for the baddest person possible and shot at our homegrown heros when they tried to free the world". i mean i know that it's kinda hard to believe for many americans, that the actions their country takes may be wrong, but seriously. how can one argument that beeing blindfolded, handcuffed and bondaged in a way so you can not take the strain of your back for 15 hours isn't torture is beyond my ability to grasp. and don't come up with that stupid "but they are prisoners" -argument. it doesn't make a damn difference if they are prisoners or the apostels themselves. it's torture either way, and torture is never the way to go

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Affect
That's hardly sensory depravation. They are blinded to make it more difficult to lash out. That transport plane is extremely small, and the security of the prisoners and soldiers is their biggest priority. I don't see anything wrong with putting a bag over a someone's head.

Let me remind you, these are prisoners. This isn't fucking torture.

The bag over the head is actually what I object to the most. I understand the need for restraining prisoners, and at least they seem to have something to sit on - I'm guessing ti wasn't feasible to provide typical seating, and the soldiers there don't lok a lot more comfortable, aside from being able to walk around. But there is absolutely no need to blind and partially suffocate prisoners, especially at altitude when breathing is already more difficult. And of course it's sensory depravation - they can't move, they can't see, they can't hear, they can't communicate with anyone in any way, they have no idea of the time or their location... I'd like to hear your definition if that doesn't come close.

Of course, knowing these conditions were pretty much maintained upon their arrival colors my judegement a little. If I'd thought this was merely temporary for the sake of transporting them I might be less critical.