lol i love this - Page 5

Affect · 11-02-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kypper

:rolleyes:

Yeah, you better keep the reins tight on your ho.

Smiley33 · 11-02-2002, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Affect
Yeah, you better keep the reins tight on your ho.

Samsa · 11-02-2002, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by killtheyouth

i don't care how much it's faded. I doubt it was ever that fantastic in the first place. And that is definitely not the most mysterious expression I've ever seen. I'm not saying it's bad, but there's no way it's even close to being the best painting ever.

the reason the fading matters is because leonardo created an incredible landscape in the ********** which has more or less disappeared

lemme find some official writing on why it's so great...

oh and no one saisd it's the best painting ever (i'm sure some people have but you can't say it's 'overrated' and state the overrating of it as 'it's the best painting ever' because i'm not really sure that's how it's been rated. i mean i can't think of any painting that has the status of 'best painting ever'. i mean it's a pretty silly distinction). but it is most certainly fantastic. and i can't think of a more mysterious expression. maybe mysterious isn't even the world. she's so HUMAN. the look on her face. just wow. that's all. actually i never really appreciated it either until i saw it in class up on the projector and i finally saw how bewitching her smile really is.

from everything2.com:

The most famous description of the Mona Lisa is by the 19th-century aesthete and art critic Walter Pater:

She is older than the rocks among which she sits; like the vampire, she has been dead many times, and learned the secrets of the grave; and has been a diver in deep seas, and keeps their fallen day about her; and trafficked for strange webs with Eastern merchants: and, as Leda, was the mother of Helen of Troy, and, as Saint Anne, the mother of Mary; and all this has been to her but as the sound of lyres and flutes, and lives only in the delicacy with which it has moulded the changing lineaments, and tinged the eyelids and the hands. The fancy of a perpetual life, sweeping together ten thousand experiences, is an old one; and modern philosophy has conceived the idea of humanity as wrought upon by, and summing up in itself all modes of thought and life.

Samsa · 11-02-2002, 05:50 PM

"There is another work of Leonardo's which is perhaps even more famous than 'The Last Supper'. It is the portrait of a Florentine lady whose name was Lisa, 'Mona Lisa. A fame as great as that of Leonardo's 'Mona Lisa' is not an unmixed blessing for a work of art. We become so used to seeing it on picture postcards, and even advertisements, that we find it difficult to see it with fresh eyes as the painting by a real man portraying a real woman of flesh and blood. But it is worth while to forget what we know, or believe we know, about the picture, and to look at it as if we were the first people ever to set eyes on it. What strikes us first is the amazing degree to which Lisa looks alive. She really seems to look at us and to have a mind of her own. Like a living being, she seems to change before our eyes and to look a little different every time we come back to her. Even in photographs of the picture we experience this strange effect, but in front of the original in the Louvre it is almost uncanny. Sometimes she seems to mock at us, and then again we seem to catch something like sadness in her smile. All this sounds rather mysterious, and so it is; that is so often the effect of a great work of art. Nevertheless, Leonardo certainly knew how he achieved this effect, and by what means. That great observer of nature knew more about the way we use our eyes than anybody who had ever lived before him. He had clearly seen a problem which the conquest of nature had posed to artists - a problem no less intricate than the one of combining correct drawing with a harmonious composition. The great works of the Italian Quattrocento masters who followed the lead given by Masaccio have one thing in common: their figures look somewhat hard and harsh, almost wooden. The strange thing is that it clearly is not lack of patience or lack of knowledge that is responsible for this effect. No one could be more patient in his imitation of nature than Van Eyck; no one could know more about correct drawing and perspective than Mantegna. And yet, for all the grandeur and impressiveness of their representations of nature, their figures look more like statues than living beings. The reason may be that the more conscientiously we copy a figure line by line and detail by detail, the less we can imagine that it ever really moved and breathed. It looks as if the painter had suddenly cast a spell over it, and forced it to stand stock-still for evermore, like the people in 'The Sleeping Beauty'. Artists had tried various ways out of this difficulty. Botticelli, for instance, had tried to emphasize in his pictures the waving hair and the fluttering garments of his figures, to make them look less rigid in outline. But only Leonardo found the true solution to the problem. The painter must leave the beholder something to guess. If the outlines are not quite so firmly drawn, if the form is left a little vague, as though disappearing into a shadow, this impression of dryness and stiffness will be avoided. This is Leonardo's famous invention which the Italians call 'sfumato'- the blurred outline and mellowed colors that allow one form to merge with another and always leave something to our imagination.

"If we now return to the 'Mona Lisa', we may understand something of its mysterious effect. We see that Leonardo has used the means of his 'sfumato' with the utmost deliberation. Everyone who has ever tried to draw or scribble a face knows that what we call its expression rests mainly in two features: the corners of the mouth, and the corners of the eyes. Now it is precisely these parts which Leonardo has left deliberately indistinct, by letting them merge into a soft shadow. That is why we are never quite certain in what mood Mona Lisa is really looking at us. Her expression always seems just to elude us. It is not only vagueness, of course, which produces this effect. There is much more behind it. Leonardo has done a very daring thing, which perhaps only a painter of his consummate mastery could risk. If we look carefully at the picture, we see that the two sides do not quite match. This is most obvious in the fantastic dream landscape in the **********. The horizon on the left side seems to lie much lower than the one on the right. Consequently, when we focus on the left side of the picture, the woman looks somehow taller or more erect than if we focus on the right side. And her face, too, seems to change with this change of position, because, even here, the two sides do not quite match. But with all these sophisticated tricks, Leonardo might have produced a clever piece of jugglery rather than a great work of art, had he not known exactly how far he could go, and had he not counterbalanced his daring deviation from nature by an almost miraculous rendering of the living flesh. Look at the way in which he modelled the hand, or the sleeves with their minute folds. Leonardo could be as painstaking as any of his forerunners in the patient observation of nature. Only he was no longer merely the faithful servant of nature. Long ago, in the distant past, people had looked at portraits with awe, because they had thought that in preserving the likeness the artist could somehow preserve the soul of the person he portrayed. Now the great scientist, Leonardo, had made some of the dreams and fears of these first image-makers come true. He knew the spell which would infuse life into the colors spread by his magic brush."

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/L/l..._text.jpg.html

Affect · 11-02-2002, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smiley33

Samsa · 11-02-2002, 06:00 PM

http://www.atkielski.com/PhotoGaller...aLisaLarge.jpg

heh here's a pic of the mona lisa in the louvre

frail_and_bedazzled · 11-02-2002, 06:19 PM

http://citd.scar.utoronto.ca/VPAB49/...n%2019,III.jpg
eva hesse
http://www.listasafn.is/safnid/synin.../betty_380.jpg
gerhard richter
http://aparthistory-design.com/brancusi.jpg[/url]
brancusi
http://www.centrepompidou.fr/educati...xl/3I00543.jpg
Rosenquist

a smorgasboard of 20th century imagery, for your delight

Samsa · 11-02-2002, 06:26 PM

i don't really know if this print is older than the first one i posted but it looks less faded so it must be? idunno. i wish i could find a site comparing prints of it from the past century but i can't

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/TEL/SH509.jpg

kypper · 11-02-2002, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Affect
Yeah, you better keep the reins tight on your ho.

Is that what you did?
Is that why you ain't in a loving relationship where you can shower with money?

awww... I bleed for you.

Tessellation · 11-02-2002, 06:58 PM

Suze, you can stop pretending that you know anything about art. You probably don't even know how to pronounce Van Gough's last name (and no, it isn't "go", you stupid cunt from hell)...

Tessellation · 11-02-2002, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa
http://www.atkielski.com/PhotoGaller...aLisaLarge.jpg

heh here's a pic of the mona lisa in the louvre

hmm, it was in a different wing when I saw it in '96...

Affect · 11-02-2002, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kypper

Is that what you did?
Is that why you ain't in a loving relationship where you can shower with money?

You're the jealous fuck "husband," not me.

I don't know where you get your information from, but it's obviously incorrect.

Smiley33 · 11-02-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation
Suze, you can stop pretending that you know anything about art. You probably don't even know how to pronounce Van Gough's last name (and no, it isn't "go", you stupid cunt from hell)...

oh god. please stop pretending you have any class whatsoever.

Samsa · 11-02-2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation
Suze, you can stop pretending that you know anything about art. You probably don't even know how to pronounce Van Gough's last name (and no, it isn't "go", you stupid cunt from hell)...

lol. you mean the way my dad pronounces it, van gog?

it's sort of an era thing. there was one point in time where people's names changed according to where they lived. that's why 'william the conqueror' is 'william' and not guillaume. lol.

Samsa · 11-02-2002, 08:25 PM

and ha ha. i wasn't aware that in order to appreciate a painting you had to 'know' anything about art. ha ha ha. you elitist piece of shit.

Fattening Ass · 11-03-2002, 07:41 AM

earlier i had a good reply, now i just don't give a fuck.

kypper · 11-03-2002, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Affect
You're the jealous fuck "husband," not me.

I don't know where you get your information from, but it's obviously incorrect.

Nah, I'm quite secure, thanks.

I just don't like seeing my wife getting creeped out by stalkers like you.

JPK · 11-03-2002, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation
You probably don't even know how to pronounce Van Gough's last name

It's not like you know how to spell it

Smiley33 · 11-03-2002, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JPK

It's not like you know how to spell it

hey, good eye!

MstrGhost · 11-03-2002, 02:56 PM

I like that paint. I'm big fan of Goya though, "kronos" rules

Btw, that's not lisa in the louvre, that's a famous and old/valuable replica. Altough the true one is locked in the louvre. That was said when i went there some years ago by a museum guide.

MstrGhost · 11-03-2002, 03:01 PM

http://www.worlds4.com/greenaway/quellen/goya.jpg

now this leaves you with a strange feeling. never went to "museo del prado" though.

Samsa · 11-03-2002, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MstrGhost
I like that paint. I'm big fan of Goya though, "kronos" rules
Btw, that's not lisa in the louvre, that's a famous and old/valuable replica. Altough the true one is locked in the louvre. That was said when i went there some years ago by a museum guide.

ummm

i've never heard this so i have trouble believing it. if you can find official evidence to back yourself up i would be much ad umm i forget the word for the moment. obliged? hmmm. not sure if i was thinking of that word.

scouse_dave · 11-04-2002, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa
lemme find some official writing on why it's so great...

yeah, some art critic saying how great it is will convince him !!!

11-03-2002, 07:41 AM	#136
Fattening Ass Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: Planet Nintendu 64 Posts: 30,825	earlier i had a good reply, now i just don't give a fuck. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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11-02-2002, 05:50 PM	#124
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	"There is another work of Leonardo's which is perhaps even more famous than 'The Last Supper'. It is the portrait of a Florentine lady whose name was Lisa, 'Mona Lisa. A fame as great as that of Leonardo's 'Mona Lisa' is not an unmixed blessing for a work of art. We become so used to seeing it on picture postcards, and even advertisements, that we find it difficult to see it with fresh eyes as the painting by a real man portraying a real woman of flesh and blood. But it is worth while to forget what we know, or believe we know, about the picture, and to look at it as if we were the first people ever to set eyes on it. What strikes us first is the amazing degree to which Lisa looks alive. She really seems to look at us and to have a mind of her own. Like a living being, she seems to change before our eyes and to look a little different every time we come back to her. Even in photographs of the picture we experience this strange effect, but in front of the original in the Louvre it is almost uncanny. Sometimes she seems to mock at us, and then again we seem to catch something like sadness in her smile. All this sounds rather mysterious, and so it is; that is so often the effect of a great work of art. Nevertheless, Leonardo certainly knew how he achieved this effect, and by what means. That great observer of nature knew more about the way we use our eyes than anybody who had ever lived before him. He had clearly seen a problem which the conquest of nature had posed to artists - a problem no less intricate than the one of combining correct drawing with a harmonious composition. The great works of the Italian Quattrocento masters who followed the lead given by Masaccio have one thing in common: their figures look somewhat hard and harsh, almost wooden. The strange thing is that it clearly is not lack of patience or lack of knowledge that is responsible for this effect. No one could be more patient in his imitation of nature than Van Eyck; no one could know more about correct drawing and perspective than Mantegna. And yet, for all the grandeur and impressiveness of their representations of nature, their figures look more like statues than living beings. The reason may be that the more conscientiously we copy a figure line by line and detail by detail, the less we can imagine that it ever really moved and breathed. It looks as if the painter had suddenly cast a spell over it, and forced it to stand stock-still for evermore, like the people in 'The Sleeping Beauty'. Artists had tried various ways out of this difficulty. Botticelli, for instance, had tried to emphasize in his pictures the waving hair and the fluttering garments of his figures, to make them look less rigid in outline. But only Leonardo found the true solution to the problem. The painter must leave the beholder something to guess. If the outlines are not quite so firmly drawn, if the form is left a little vague, as though disappearing into a shadow, this impression of dryness and stiffness will be avoided. This is Leonardo's famous invention which the Italians call 'sfumato'- the blurred outline and mellowed colors that allow one form to merge with another and always leave something to our imagination. "If we now return to the 'Mona Lisa', we may understand something of its mysterious effect. We see that Leonardo has used the means of his 'sfumato' with the utmost deliberation. Everyone who has ever tried to draw or scribble a face knows that what we call its expression rests mainly in two features: the corners of the mouth, and the corners of the eyes. Now it is precisely these parts which Leonardo has left deliberately indistinct, by letting them merge into a soft shadow. That is why we are never quite certain in what mood Mona Lisa is really looking at us. Her expression always seems just to elude us. It is not only vagueness, of course, which produces this effect. There is much more behind it. Leonardo has done a very daring thing, which perhaps only a painter of his consummate mastery could risk. If we look carefully at the picture, we see that the two sides do not quite match. This is most obvious in the fantastic dream landscape in the **********. The horizon on the left side seems to lie much lower than the one on the right. Consequently, when we focus on the left side of the picture, the woman looks somehow taller or more erect than if we focus on the right side. And her face, too, seems to change with this change of position, because, even here, the two sides do not quite match. But with all these sophisticated tricks, Leonardo might have produced a clever piece of jugglery rather than a great work of art, had he not known exactly how far he could go, and had he not counterbalanced his daring deviation from nature by an almost miraculous rendering of the living flesh. Look at the way in which he modelled the hand, or the sleeves with their minute folds. Leonardo could be as painstaking as any of his forerunners in the patient observation of nature. Only he was no longer merely the faithful servant of nature. Long ago, in the distant past, people had looked at portraits with awe, because they had thought that in preserving the likeness the artist could somehow preserve the soul of the person he portrayed. Now the great scientist, Leonardo, had made some of the dreams and fears of these first image-makers come true. He knew the spell which would infuse life into the colors spread by his magic brush." http://www.artchive.com/artchive/L/l..._text.jpg.html

11-02-2002, 06:00 PM	#126
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	http://www.atkielski.com/PhotoGaller...aLisaLarge.jpg heh here's a pic of the mona lisa in the louvre

11-02-2002, 06:19 PM	#127
frail_and_bedazzled Ownz Location: lon guyland Posts: 880	http://citd.scar.utoronto.ca/VPAB49/...n%2019,III.jpg eva hesse http://www.listasafn.is/safnid/synin.../betty_380.jpg gerhard richter http://aparthistory-design.com/brancusi.jpg[/url] brancusi http://www.centrepompidou.fr/educati...xl/3I00543.jpg Rosenquist a smorgasboard of 20th century imagery, for your delight

11-02-2002, 06:26 PM	#128
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	i don't really know if this print is older than the first one i posted but it looks less faded so it must be? idunno. i wish i could find a site comparing prints of it from the past century but i can't http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/TEL/SH509.jpg

11-02-2002, 06:58 PM	#130
Tessellation Apocalyptic Poster Location: your local library Posts: 4,422	Suze, you can stop pretending that you know anything about art. You probably don't even know how to pronounce Van Gough's last name (and no, it isn't "go", you stupid cunt from hell)...

11-02-2002, 08:25 PM	#135
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	and ha ha. i wasn't aware that in order to appreciate a painting you had to 'know' anything about art. ha ha ha. you elitist piece of shit.

11-03-2002, 02:56 PM	#140
MstrGhost Apocalyptic Poster Location: Portugal Posts: 2,805	I like that paint. I'm big fan of Goya though, "kronos" rules Btw, that's not lisa in the louvre, that's a famous and old/valuable replica. Altough the true one is locked in the louvre. That was said when i went there some years ago by a museum guide.

11-03-2002, 03:01 PM	#141
MstrGhost Apocalyptic Poster Location: Portugal Posts: 2,805	http://www.worlds4.com/greenaway/quellen/goya.jpg now this leaves you with a strange feeling. never went to "museo del prado" though.