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08-16-2020, 12:36 PM | #61 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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08-16-2020, 01:15 PM | #62 |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,903
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08-16-2020, 02:46 PM | #63 |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,903
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Something in italic
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08-16-2020, 02:50 PM | #64 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,890
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I don't know anyone that thinks electing Biden automatically fixes things. All it initially does is stop Trump's antics. There's a shit ton of work to do after Trump's gone that needs to be done. But none of what needs to be done can be done or will be done with Trump and McConnell in charge
Last edited by MyOneAndOnly : 08-16-2020 at 05:58 PM. |
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08-16-2020, 04:58 PM | #65 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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08-16-2020, 07:39 PM | #66 | |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,781
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Quote:
Incidentally, Jacinda's party received only 36.89% of the popular vote and were thereby forced to form a minority government with two other parties in order to get above the threshold for power (just as you've indicated). The result of this, even so, has been that three parties with divergent platforms must run the country together through cooperation and power cannot be monopolized by any one group. Rather than a choice between two candidates from the same two parties, we can vote in any direction (e.g. for indigenous rights in the Māori Party to redundant single issue parties like the Aoeteoroa Legalise Cannabis Party or through to Tea Party New Zealand*) and generally expect that our votes do go somewhere. [* Thanks, America.] |
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08-16-2020, 08:29 PM | #67 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,876
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That sounds more like an endorsement of MMP in particular than parliamentary systems more broadly.
I live in a parliamentary system, but it's first-past-the-post. As such, much like the United States, we've mostly devolved into a two-party system (we have more parties in parliament and have been called a "two-party plus" system because a third party manages to get a significant share of seats, though has never formed government) where we have a barely meaningful choice between a centrist party and a centre-right party. The reality of vote-splitting means that people who identify more closely with one of the more leftist parties will often have to vote for the centrist candidate in their riding in order to best prevent the right-wing candidate from winning. The fact that we vote for local representatives, and that the party with the most representatives in parliament typically forms government with their leader as prime minister, does nothing to lessen the power or the prime minister in relation to the members of parliaments'. There is a strong party whip, and individual MPs almost always have to vote with the party instead of in the interests of their ridings (whereas an American congressperson can almost act like an independent, being free to break away from the party line and vote in the conscience of whatever corporation that's assumed the role of his Jiminy Cricket). In fact, the synonymity of the party leader with their respective party leads most people to say things like "I voted for Justin Trudeau," even if they live nowhere near his riding and his name was not amongst the options on their ballots. A Canadian Prime Minister actually has more power in Canadian politics than an American President has in the United States, as in a parliamentary system, there is no division of powers, and the Prime Minister leads both the executive and legislative branches. This isn't me saying that a parliamentary system is any worse than a presidential system. Both systems work differently, but neither is inherently superior to the other. Whichever one a country has, it can conduct it in various degrees of democratic sensibility. The problems with the American system don't really stem from the fact that it's presidential rather than parliamentary, but rather because of the role of money in politics, the existence of the electoral college, systematic disenfranchisement of disadvantaged groups, and a historical legacy of racism serving as the bedrock for reactionary politics today. Last edited by Disco King : 08-16-2020 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Compose on mobile, edit on PC |
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08-16-2020, 09:05 PM | #68 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,876
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08-16-2020, 09:09 PM | #69 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,368
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good post labelle
@daveanthony is a great follow on twitter for more of this shit. the democrats are lowkey just as fucking terrible as republicans, but i guess outwardly less. [not trying to get m4a during a fucking p a n d e m i c] trump is going to win because there are a lot of very fucking stupid and/or evil people in this country. |
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08-16-2020, 09:51 PM | #70 | |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,781
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Quote:
I'd be curious to hear more about how a Canadian prime minister has more power than an American president, though. How do executive orders factor into that or how (i.e. via what mechanism) might a Canadian prime minister go about achieving an objective in the case that it lacks the requisite support? |
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08-16-2020, 10:07 PM | #71 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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08-16-2020, 11:30 PM | #72 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,781
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[refocusing on the original topic]
I agree with much of the sentiment expressed in LaBelle's post, but also see the coming election results framed as either endorsing or condemning the Trump administration. My impression is that, from a strategic point of view, Biden does best by simply being a person that is not Donald Trump in much the same way that Donald was anybody other than Hillary. It makes a lot of sense to be bitterly disappointed by this and by the fact that, from such an unfortunate position, you must then either play it where it lies or take the penalty. To the political class, the voter can communicate one of the following two things: 1.) we're ultimately going to tolerate and effectively reward what we've seen over the past four years; or 2.) that was fucked enough to warrant the fairly rare outcome of a one-term presidency and all the damage to the party's objectives that'll do Given that it's a numbers game with little room for nuance, which message would you rather American politicians hear regardless of their own identities or group affiliations? |
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08-16-2020, 11:33 PM | #73 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,781
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Things not successfully communicated in the form of any one presidential election vote:
- we deserve better candidates |
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08-17-2020, 08:25 AM | #74 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 2,265
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When you all insist Biden is miles better than Trump you ignore the fact that Biden is likely to kill more people overseas. Trump is without a doubt a war criminal (his handling of Yemen comes to mind), but Obama (who Biden worked with) was easily worse in terms of lives lost overseas (I’m aware Obama was a LOT better than Trump domestically, so no need to point this out to me). Those people in the Middle East matter too, let’s not forget about them. I’m not telling you to vote for Trump, obviously, dude is evil and I do understand the motivation to vote for Biden, especially due to his economic policies that will undoubtedly fuck the working class less than Trump’s. I’m trying to get you guys to really think about what you’re saying though.
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08-17-2020, 08:27 AM | #75 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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Proportional representation vs first past the post has been debated by people qualified to do so. Both have benefits. What matters is the type of action you expect from your government.
I think the US should give sortition a try. Basically pull a random ballot. In theory you could write in anyone and that person has an extremely small chance of actually winning. |
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08-17-2020, 08:30 AM | #76 | |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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Quote:
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08-17-2020, 08:30 AM | #77 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 2,265
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08-17-2020, 08:33 AM | #78 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 2,265
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Quote:
Trump has tried to withdraw troops a few times I believe and been met with resistance. I can’t believe you’re making me defend him, but if you’re going to ignore reality, I’ll have to. |
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08-17-2020, 08:37 AM | #79 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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Are you suggesting US presence in Syria would’ve resulted in a higher loss of life as opposed to the alternative?
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08-17-2020, 08:39 AM | #80 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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There was a civil war and the US intervened. I ask you, honestly, were you aware of this when you started?
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08-17-2020, 08:45 AM | #81 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 2,265
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08-17-2020, 08:52 AM | #82 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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Yeah you made a mistake, just admit it. It wasn’t a conflict the US started.
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08-17-2020, 08:53 AM | #83 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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“Just let the free market sort out ISIL.”
Now that’s leadership! |
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08-17-2020, 09:48 AM | #84 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,890
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Quote:
The idea that he is somehow less bad at colonialism or war or murder or death than Obama is ridiculous. The reality is that this guy is a monster who is conducting genocide and ethnic cleansing on a massive scale. |
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08-17-2020, 10:10 AM | #85 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,754
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If only we could have Bernie Sanders in president we could kumbaya with isis and America could ascend to a higher plane of consciousness
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08-17-2020, 10:15 AM | #86 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,754
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Then we can eliminate the corrupt world of democratic politics altogether and replace it with a talking point meme factory run by aoc and jill stein
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08-17-2020, 11:29 AM | #87 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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We can stop the massacre of civilians through the use of our enormous economic might. Once used Toyota pickup trucks stop making it into enemy hands, they’ll have to rely on golf carts to navigate deserts and jungles. And soon after that, the inconvenience of travel and the rising cost of firearms will stop genocides altogether. You buffoons and your oafish militaries are outdated equipment for the modern world. It’s high time we stop policing the world and continuing the colonialist practices of directing the world’s course, and we can take a back seat to fellas like Putin and Jinping.
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08-17-2020, 11:33 AM | #88 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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I putin'd your dad's jinping.
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08-17-2020, 11:36 AM | #89 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 2,265
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08-17-2020, 11:38 AM | #90 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I should kick you in the sides
Posts: 2,265
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