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Old 07-24-2020, 08:49 AM   #1
NovaFritz
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Default Does SP have a sound?

Is SP's problem with being musically relevant that they never really had a sound? In a lot of ways, they were like pop-rock stars, changing their style every few years in the 90s as styles changed. Sort of a cut-rate Bowie. The difference between Rocket and Ava Adore speaks to this. Is there really an SP sound? You can go back to a specific album, but those album styles are just reflections of bands that had actual sounds (like MBV or Rush or whatever for SD). No wonder they don't want them in the RRHoF. Seems the closest thing to a "sound" they have is 1979, hence the Ghosts (in the middle, oh).

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:15 AM   #2
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Most of the post reunion albums have had that sort of inoffensive, almost "christian rock", Teargarden by Kaleidyscope, zero intensity sort of sound. The last 10+ years they've definitely had a sound, it's just not a very interesting or immediately identifiable one.

I feel one problem is MCIS - It covered so many sounds that all of the subsequent albums are "MCIS without the heavy songs" or "MCIS without the funny songs" or "MCIS without the good songs". And being such a big, varied album MCIS is probably more than enough SP for most people.

Cut-rate Bowie is spot on really. WPC jumps around sound wise but hasn't really progressed past the sounds presented on MCIS. At this point in his career Bowie was playing with styles that simply didn't exist in the 70s. Shiny V1 and Earthling were done when WPC and Bowie were roughly the same age.. Says it all really.

Another problem is that, let's be honest here, people want more Rat In A Cage or 1979 and to his credit WPC has refused to pander. Well, "Shiny and Oh So Bright Volume 1 : No Past, No Future, No Sun" maybe..but he's been fairly open about what Shiny is. Possibly they'd be more relevant if they'd just done a Foo Fighters.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:23 AM   #3
Joey Goldberg
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he's like if Bowie just got perpetually stuck in his 80s phase

but wow, SP obviously had a sound what you smokin' NF?

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:24 AM   #4
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more accurately, they had a sound then kind of abandoned it, but nevertheless, a sound was had!

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:25 AM   #5
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yes they do, it's called silversun pickups

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:40 AM   #6
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man classic tsp had a fuckin' stone-cold killer vibe

like liam gallagher in a fookin' parka and four day stubble

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:42 AM   #7
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Big Muff + Wall of Guitars would be it, init?

I mean that was SD only, and partially MCIS and Gish, but that's what people usually think when talking about the band.

Last edited by Forgotten Child : 07-24-2020 at 11:02 AM.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:46 AM   #8
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Billy made a distinct, conscious effort to change the sound of each album. He wanted each to be its own ‘movie ‘ with its own signature style and sound. He’s said this. If it sounded too much like Smashing Pumpkins they would rework the song. So it makes me wonder if doing this altered his course, obviously it did, effecting public image and HOF chances or defining “theSP sound”. Had he kept the sound the same, would SP be regarded more like Foo Fighters, RHCP, Pearl Jam, Metallica, etc...

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:52 AM   #9
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pearl jam sound: EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOO

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incubator View Post
Cut-rate Bowie is spot on really.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg View Post

but wow, SP obviously had a sound what you smokin' NF?
What sound was that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Big Muff + Wall of Guitars would be it, init?

I mean that was SD only, and partially MCIS and Gish, but that's what people usually think when taking about the band.
Yeah, like I feel that MCIS really doesn't have that "SP" sound at all. It was just so popular and well-received and well-executed we forget that it doesn't even really continue the SP sound they had just established.

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Billy made a distinct, conscious effort to change the sound of each album. He wanted each to be its own Ďmovie Ď with its own signature style and sound. Heís said this. If it sounded too much like Smashing Pumpkins they would rework the song. So it makes me wonder if doing this altered his course, obviously it did, effecting public image and HOF chances or defining ďtheSP soundĒ. Had he kept the sound the same, would SP be regarded more like Foo Fighters, RHCP, Pearl Jam, Metallica, etc...
Exactly. If they just stuck to the SD sound they could be more easily categorized and then get in. On the other hand, the Cure had different sounds to them, but they recycled those styles in cycles, so it all sounds "The Cure" to me.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:19 AM   #11
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Great thread. For big willie at this point in time, it’s clear he believes the “sound” of SP is his own vocal: he’s said as much in interviews

Which sucks, b/c that’s so dismissive of the power the original band used to possess

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
What sound was that?
the one created on Gish, Siamese Dream, Pisces, and everything around those 3 releases. everything they did after was essentially spawned off of that sound, even if they ended up twisting it to various degrees (Adore had a similar airy, ethereal vocal sound but essentially eliminated the "RAWK," MCIS dialed back on the perfectionist tendencies, actually incorporated the full band & darkened everything considerably, lyrically & tonally)

so yeah, there's your S O U N D

#nerdalert

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
Great thread. For big willie at this point in time, itís clear he believes the ďsoundĒ of SP is his own vocal: heís said as much in interviews


Which is notable enough because his vocal style has also changed album to album.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:39 AM   #14
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how does this thread exist? have you ever listened to an SP record?

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:31 PM   #15
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SP has several sounds. The one that is commonly called "the SP sound" is the Siamese Dream sound, though. That's the one that bands influenced by SP try to emulate. But you can still recognize their other sounds. For example, that fake bootleg demo posted here a while ago that was clearly emulating the MCIS sound and was obvioislt supposed to sound like something that might have ended up pasted into "Pastichio Medley."

I'd say it sounds more apparent that Corgan is a bit self-conscious about what the "SP sound" is and what he's "supposed to sound like," as releases like Zeitgeist and Oceania have a lot of carry-over from Siamese Dream and Machina. "We're the guys with the overlaid guitars and at least one long song on each album and a solo over the bridge, right?" This is further evidenced by the fact that Corgan now thinks that, despite writing the majority of SP material, all acoustic songs should be released under his solo moniker: the Smashing Pumpkins are supposed to be an electric rock band.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:28 PM   #16
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Sound? You immediately recognize sp via bollys voice. But no chance without billy

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:47 PM   #17
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
SP has several sounds. The one that is commonly called "the SP sound" is the Siamese Dream sound, though. That's the one that bands influenced by SP try to emulate. But you can still recognize their other sounds. For example, that fake bootleg demo posted here a while ago that was clearly emulating the MCIS sound and was obvioislt supposed to sound like something that might have ended up pasted into "Pastichio Medley."

I'd say it sounds more apparent that Corgan is a bit self-conscious about what the "SP sound" is and what he's "supposed to sound like," as releases like Zeitgeist and Oceania have a lot of carry-over from Siamese Dream and Machina. "We're the guys with the overlaid guitars and at least one long song on each album and a solo over the bridge, right?" This is further evidenced by the fact that Corgan now thinks that, despite writing the majority of SP material, all acoustic songs should be released under his solo moniker: the Smashing Pumpkins are supposed to be an electric rock band.
But itís not really their sound is it. Anderson Cooper gets it. They picked it up for one or two albums and then dumped it for other stuff. And he is self conscious because no one wants to hear other sounds. I still feel like his newer stuff, even when he goes for the big overlain guitar sound (One and All) still really doesnít sound to me like the SP sound. There is just no core there. Maybe his voice, but thatís a pretty low bar. Honestly I think itís maybe Ihaís guitar textures, but then again Shiny was so-so.

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:30 PM   #19
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S I L V E R F O X

 
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
But itís not really their sound is it. Anderson Cooper gets it. They picked it up for one or two albums and then dumped it for other stuff. And he is self conscious because no one wants to hear other sounds. I still feel like his newer stuff, even when he goes for the big overlain guitar sound (One and All) still really doesnít sound to me like the SP sound. There is just no core there. Maybe his voice, but thatís a pretty low bar. Honestly I think itís maybe Ihaís guitar textures, but then again Shiny was so-so.
the production on shiny is trash tho. iha's influence definitely helps. listen to live superchrist or malta - they're so so much better

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 04:35 AM   #21
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Iha must play what billy has figured out.
He is a marionette.

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:40 AM   #22
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Dsus2

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:49 AM   #23
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nope dont think so

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:52 AM   #24
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Dsus is it,yes

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:09 AM   #25
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They make sounds that's all I'm willing to concede.

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:39 AM   #26
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it ain’t rock n roll
if it don’t got that

Last edited by cork_soaker : 07-25-2020 at 04:37 PM.

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Dsus2
>Dat Dsus2 arpeggio in "Once Upon a Time"

👌

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:08 PM   #28
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Suspended chords are also really good for shoegaze.

Play those and major-chords with big reverb and you're pretty much dream pop already.

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 02:43 PM   #29
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Actually a big part of their sound is based off the Mixolydian mode (think of the riffs in Starla, Drown, and 1979). What's interesting is that i read somewhere that when Billy was learning guitar he tried to emulate that "Cure sounding scale".

 
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:30 PM   #30
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