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Old 01-18-2018, 06:17 PM   #31
toase
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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
Putting the blame on Jeff is ridiculous. If it sucks it's because Billy's lost the heartfires. No amount of Jimmy Jamez or even Darcy contributing will change that.
yes
why is jeff a problem or an indication of a problem?

three guitarists would be fine...

 
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:18 PM   #32
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he's prob more focused on the wrestling stuff, tbh

definitely gotta be more profitable at this point
new music is probably a money pit, but it keeps him in the light to keep the old albums cycling through to new kids...

wrestling - well he sued his last partners after sinking a ton of money there. We'll see if the new new 'investment' pans out.

 
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:34 PM   #33
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" 'the kidz love katz'."
just stop. PLEASE just stop.

 
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:50 PM   #34
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mtae and ogilala wasn t so bad
mtae is worst thing billy ever put out and ogilala is best since tfe

 
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:54 PM   #35
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Billy's unresolved childhood issues and resultant narcissistic tendencies mixed with some talent and a metric shit ton of good fortune led to him getting lucky and hitting it really big from 93-96. Sadly he didn't realize that the "some talent" part of the equation would eventually be all that was left when his good luck ran out and his narcissism caused him to think he was a genius and didn't need anyone's input to make great records. So he crashed and burned with Adore and has been desperately trying to figure out how to recapture his former glory ever since...clinging desperately to the belief that he is "one of the great artists" of all time and all he has to do is follow his instincts and he'll make the next Sgt Pepper.

At least that's what I think. At any rate, I love you b0lly.

 
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:59 PM   #36
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he was an incredibly good songwriter behind it all, that i will always go to bat for

 
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:00 PM   #37
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he was an incredibly good songwriter behind it all, that i will always go to bat for
There are so many great songs buried in unfinished unreleased projects or floating like turds on overproduced commercial releases. It's a shame

 
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:48 PM   #38
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Billy's never gonna give you up
He will, however, let you down.

 
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:35 PM   #39
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he was an incredibly good songwriter behind it all, that i will always go to bat for
that's why I'm still around
but he needs to give up ruining them.

 
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:11 PM   #40
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I don't like or listen to his new material, but I don't personally hope he gives up doing whatever the fuck he gets fulfillment doing just because it doesn't appeal to me.

I mean, it's not like I'm forced to listen to it or anything.
if there is a Hell, it would be eternity with Ogilala on repeat.

 
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:54 PM   #41
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MonteLDS @MonteLDS Jan 17
wonder if something will happen at Sundance Film Festival...

Replying to @MonteLDS Hmmm. A reunion of sorts??

Replying to @StephenLennon2 @MonteLDS Guessing he's just referring to this: "The clip serves as a 2D preview of a forthcoming immersive virtual reality experience for the Ogilala disc...created inside a 3D world that was imagined by...Danny Bittman...Look for the VR experience being made available...in early 2018. ·

MonteLDS @MonteLDS Replying to @ClayTuckett @StephenLennon2 bingo was his name o

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:20 AM   #42
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Putting the blame on Jeff is ridiculous. If it sucks it's because Billy's lost the heartfires. No amount of Jimmy Jamez or even Darcy contributing will change that.
Personally, I blame Obamacare.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:25 AM   #43
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And the chemtrails.




 
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:41 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by toase View Post
yes
why is jeff a problem or an indication of a problem?

three guitarists would be fine...
Jeff is hopelessly boring, no charisma on stage at all, and his playing is as generic and plain as can be. He doesn't play to compliment the songs, his "shredding" is awful, and he literally brings nothing of value to the band. I've had the misfortune of seeing them live with Jeff three times. I couldn't believe that Jeff's guitar was louder than Billy's each time. Not what I paid to hear.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 03:40 PM   #45
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James sounded like James even when playing Billy's parts.

**edit because I don't want to be mean to Jeff even though I don't like his playing

Last edited by Funbags : 01-20-2018 at 03:47 PM.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:18 PM   #46
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James sounded like James even when playing Billy's parts.

**edit because I don't want to be mean to Jeff even though I don't like his playing



 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:32 PM   #47
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My favorite thing about Billy's arrogance is how he always brags about his guitar playing yet 90% of his live solos are a total clusterfuck of sloppy hammer-ons and pull-offs where you can't even tell what notes he's playing but out of the ones that stick out about 20% are totally bad mistakes.

And then there's his singing live. His voice is almost always blown out during live performances and his intonation is about 60% accurate overall. Can you imagine being in a band with a guy that can barely even perform live but who still has the balls to bash his band members for being "non-musicians" all the while claiming that he is a humble and gracious person in interviews.

He's never going to give up. His head is way too inflated and way too far up his arse.

I love you Billy.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:42 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Jeff is hopelessly boring, no charisma on stage at all, and his playing is as generic and plain as can be. He doesn't play to compliment the songs, his "shredding" is awful, and he literally brings nothing of value to the band. I've had the misfortune of seeing them live with Jeff three times. I couldn't believe that Jeff's guitar was louder than Billy's each time. Not what I paid to hear.

I would agree to some extent that his playing lacks an original voice when playing in the pumpkins but I think that's on purpose. Ive always perceived him as strictly a sideman in the Pumpkins... like Kenny Aronoff or Matt Walker or Lisa Harrington or whoever else. If had his own voice too much, he would be failing at his job.

I actually like Jeff in the band because he performs at a professional level consistently every night (unlike Billy lol.) I.e., his playing is always in tune and in time, he hardly ever makes mistakes, his sound and feel are always good. It's refreshing! Haha

Seeing Jeff and Billy play acoustic duos together during the Plainsong tour really made this extra obvious to me. I remember watching Billy play his intro solo to Mayonaise and Jeff had to keep readjusting his time feel to match Billy's constant rushing. It was kind of painful. In my opinion, it's kind of obvious Billy is self taught and has probably never really like...worked with a metronome...whereas Jeff really has it together. Billy would never survive as a guitarist in a professional band. He's way too sloppy. Jeff could probably play with anyone and I'm willing to bet has his own style too.

Just my two cents though.

I love you Billy!

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:49 PM   #49
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Clusterfuck hammer-on/pull-off solos pwn.

That's my two cents.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #50
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Btw.....while I know I'm kinda beating on the b0llster....

I do have the utmost respect for what he's accomplished in his career. He's absolutely a genius in my book...a great songwriter, and a brilliant, brave visionary of an artist....I would never say any of this stuff to his face. I simply have too much respect for him. Truly.

Im not saying any of this stuff to be mean...I just think that because he is a public artist he (like anyone else) does deserve to have his work and public persona held to scrutiny...and truth be told he is kind of a narcissistic creep and a half assed musician in terms of technique and execution in a live setting. There's a time and a place for super fans and critics to talk shit and this is that place, thats all. I love you Billy.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:56 PM   #51
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Clusterfuck hammer-on/pull-off solos pwn.

That's my two cents.
Haha. Fair enough. I prefer them to be in time, and articulate in terms of note content. But that's just me.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:50 PM   #52
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My favorite thing about Billy's arrogance is how he always brags about his guitar playing yet 90% of his live solos are a total clusterfuck of sloppy hammer-ons and pull-offs where you can't even tell what notes he's playing but out of the ones that stick out about 20% are totally bad mistakes.

And then there's his singing live. His voice is almost always blown out during live performances and his intonation is about 60% accurate overall. Can you imagine being in a band with a guy that can barely even perform live but who still has the balls to bash his band members for being "non-musicians" all the while claiming that he is a humble and gracious person in interviews.

He's never going to give up. His head is way too inflated and way too far up his arse.

I love you Billy.
I understand what you mean, but Pumpkins gigs aren't meant to be some sort of clinic. They're about playing the songs, and communicating and experiencing emotions

Him blowing out his voice, playing crazy shredding, doing drugs before gigs, etc, that's all part of it

But yeah he was being a total dick to James and D'arcy

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:29 PM   #53
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I disagree with your assessment of Billy's playing. His playing on Siamese Dream couldn't be any more perfect and precise. He's a monster guitar player. He could literally wipe the floor with Jeff any time he wants. I've never seen him play even remotely sloppy at any point. His solos are awesome and I'd put him up there with the best of the best.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:08 PM   #54
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I disagree with your assessment of Billy's playing. His playing on Siamese Dream couldn't be any more perfect and precise. He's a monster guitar player. He could literally wipe the floor with Jeff any time he wants. I've never seen him play even remotely sloppy at any point. His solos are awesome and I'd put him up there with the best of the best.
I was very explicitly talking about his playing in a live context. His studio playing is a totally different story because he can do 100 different takes and comp solos (if you listen closely to the "Soma" solo, for example, you can pretty clearly hear where different takes are stitched together.) Live...I mean...listen to literally any solo he's ever played. His bends are out of tune, he plays wrong notes with his hammer-on pull-off runs, he often loses note articulation altogether during fast runs so you can't even hear what notes he's aiming for, etc. There's really no questioning that at all, just go on YouTube and listen to any three live solos and two of them are bound to be total slop fests.

In terms of conception, being inspired, being original, being an innovator....yes, he sits with the best of the best. No question. Much better than Jeff. But in terms of being able to play his own music at a high level consistently on the spot, he's pretty dreadful. Does that make sense? I'm separating overall musicality and originality from technical proficiency. Two very different things. Not all composers are great instrumentalists. Miles Davis was average as a trumpeter but as a musician and a melodic inprovisor he was Einstein. Everyone has different strengths.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:19 PM   #55
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I understand what you mean, but Pumpkins gigs aren't meant to be some sort of clinic. They're about playing the songs, and communicating and experiencing emotions

Him blowing out his voice, playing crazy shredding, doing drugs before gigs, etc, that's all part of it

But yeah he was being a total dick to James and D'arcy

He brags too much about musicianship for me not to feel justified critiquing his playing. I can't find the clip but on YouTube there's an interview with him getting off stage and trashing virtually every other alternative rock guitarist on the planet for being unsophisticated and not having studying the likes on Yngwie Malmsteen like he and Jeff. He also repeatedly referred to the Pumpkins as being "way more musically sophisticated" than other 90's bands in interviews during the SD/MCIS reissue press run. On top of that, he's been vicious to James and Darcy forever, acting like they can hardly play when his own live vocal intonation is 60-70% passable at best, and his lead playing is sloppy slop slop. All I'm saying is his ego is way too big for his skill set.

But putting that aside...dude I totally agree. There's something about the pure visceral ugliness of a live SP show that's intoxicating beyond belief regardless of technical execution.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:23 PM   #56
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Live...I mean...listen to literally any solo he's ever played. His bends are out of tune, he plays wrong notes with his hammer-on pull-off runs, he often loses note articulation altogether during fast runs so you can't even hear what notes he's aiming for, etc. There's really no questioning that at all, just go on YouTube and listen to any three live solos and two of them are bound to be total slop fests.
This is 100% true. Billy is guilty of shredding just for the sake of shredding. Which can be cool but it's really a one trick pony.

Kind of like how all the extended jams (silverfuck, transmission, we love you, rock on) all follow the same formula.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:25 PM   #57
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I would even say that all of his live shredding moments all sound the same. Just the same technique and mash of notes over and over again, year after year.

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:10 PM   #58
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I would even say that all of his live shredding moments all sound the same. Just the same technique and mash of notes over and over again, year after year.

His live setup includes something like 18 different clones of high quality amps yet he plays like shit. I'll never understand the sense in that. lol

 
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:17 PM   #59
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Okay...8, not 18...I was close

https://youtu.be/_eVH5vUR8u8

 
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:19 PM   #60
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I feel like Billy has spent the last 20 years trying not to sound like the first 3 albums. He's fallen victim to the cliché that when bands just release the same old stuff, people get bored. He's trying desperately to make new and different music. The irony here is that in his attempt to not be irrelevant, he has become irrelevant. It's just terrible sounding garbage with no heart. Thin guitars and his awful dogwhistle-pitched voice.

 
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