Fuzzyroes VS. FoolofaTook: CHOOSE YOUR FACTION

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by vixnix

I can understand that - I think this was a cause close to the hearts of Bernie Bros.

Trump supporters were labelled fascists, and Bernie Bros were labelled socialists, but essentially their support of 'fringe' or 'anti-establishment' candidates (which is the main platform both candidates ran on) are both what Marx would call "the sigh of the oppressed". He said it about religion....but at this stage, political campaigns are pretty religious. People aren't just appealing to a person's agreement on policy commitments - it's become a race that's won or lost based on creating a kind of fervour and fielty to a leader who symbolises most closely a person's mortal and moral concerns.

I understand and sympathise with Trump supporters more than I do with HRC supporters, even though of course I think she would be a much better president. But she did come to represent the political establishment which has done nothing except systematically fail the citizens who pay their salaries, year after year. For every incremental improvement that happens for one group, there is neglect toward many others. And always, year after year, no matter who is in charge, a truly disgusting amount of taxpayer money being spent on arms. HRC made no promises about fixing that particular issue, and she and the Clinton foundation do have some questionable history with Boeing et. al.

So I think supporting Trump is the wrong idea, but I can understand a guy like Fuzzy accepting the rhetoric, because things are hard and hopeless for a lot of young people right now. The people that shit on fuzzy here at netpho are nearly all middle class with college degrees. I would gently suggest that you're not from the classes of people who have been missing out, year after year, and who are desperate now, can't afford for their kids to go to good schools, can't find steady employment, have no home, are constantly only one or two rent payments away from eviction.

Shitting on people who support Trump without asking why they would support a guy like that, and not just accepting the answer "Because he's a shit person, look at all these other opinions he has" is a kind of elitism I reckon.

I subscribe to that other school of elitism. Pity.

Just as toxic I guess.

Must say before I head to the sofa that this is absolutely beautiful. Amen!

[FoolofaTook]

U batin'?

[LaBelle]

This thread is a haven of bad takes, jesus christ.

[Elphenor]

fuzzy is not a guy from the rust belt who had his job outsourced

he doesn't even live here

[vixnix]

working class people whose parents didn't go to university and who don't have the social capital to attend university themselves exist all over the world, surprisingly

and the worldwide entertainment event that is the U.S. election is something that everyone follows, it's basically the politics version of America's Got Talent or American Idol

It's

American Election

It follows the same format of progressive eliminations and competitive performances and back stories as all the others.

Forgive the working classes of the rest of the world for becoming involved in an entertainment package that has been aggressively marketed to them

They didn't get to attend uni and take the mandatory Critical Thinking 101 paper that you did

[LaBelle]

Gay, trans, black people and minorities in general get attacked, raped, stoned and killed every single day for simply being themselves.
But no we should feel sorry for the guy who never has to deal with an ounce of that in his life and openly supports the people who want to keep that as the status quo.

The privilege of some of the people here is absolutely disgusting.

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

what the fuck even happened here. i think everyone missed everyone's point.

this thread might as well have every post in a different language

it's upsetting to see how unwilling people are to change, alter or modify their narrative

[FoolofaTook]

Wrong. I changed. First I apologized to fuzzy. Then I changed my mind and told him fuck you.

[TuralyonW3]

fuzzy even Rubio admits the corporate handouts are out of control in the new tax bill:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...ushpmg00000009

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by vixnix

working class people whose parents didn't go to university and who don't have the social capital to attend university themselves exist all over the world, surprisingly

and the worldwide entertainment event that is the U.S. election is something that everyone follows, it's basically the politics version of America's Got Talent or American Idol

It's

American Election

It follows the same format of progressive eliminations and competitive performances and back stories as all the others.

Forgive the working classes of the rest of the world for becoming involved in an entertainment package that has been aggressively marketed to them

They didn't get to attend uni and take the mandatory Critical Thinking 101 paper that you did

yeah nothing absolves Trump voters from the responsibility of electing the "And I assume some are good people" guy

the guy whos previous primary run was based entirely on demanding the birth certificate of our first black president

but the anti-establishment excuse only holds up really for a segment of the US population that he lied to about outsourcing, these people voted Obama, and would have voted Sanders

[FoolofaTook]

When you said we share a fav band were you talking about SLEEP or Borisu?

[Shallowed]

All we are saying is give fascism a chance

[FoolofaTook]

That's directed at Turalyon.

[FoolofaTook]

Dammit shallowed!!

[Shallowed]

If you can find it in your heart to momentarily forgive fuzzy, I know you can forgive me

[FoolofaTook]

I forgive you shallowed. Forever.

Now go listen to the Feedbacker first movement on repeat and read Idle Days on the Yann.

[FoolofaTook]

Fuzzy has three votes: me, himself, and Slunken.

Lololol

[Elphenor]

honestly I see what you're saying Vix

I don't think people are born Nazi supporters and absolutely the neoliberals share in the responsibility

at the same time I don't know if that kind of "they just don't know better" talk is more or less elitist than just calling them deplorables

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by LaBelle

Gay, trans, black people and minorities in general get attacked, raped, stoned and killed every single day for simply being themselves.
But no we should feel sorry for the guy who never has to deal with an ounce of that in his life and openly supports the people who want to keep that as the status quo.

The privilege of some of the people here is absolutely disgusting.

Isn't it a sign of your privilege that you place the protection of this group of people above the protection of children through their parents provision for them, which in turn requires them to have secure employment, which requires job creation...which was one of the big promises Trump made?

An increasing number of families are facing homelessness in the U.S. and parents need meaningful and properly compensated employment. If you are trying to put food on the table for your kids and a roof over your head, or if that is the most pressing need you see around you, where you live, you're going to vote according to those interests.

It's no different to you seeing the most pressing need as legal protection for those who are currently marginalised and persecuted by society at large.

Both of these groups are affected by a truly shameful number of preventable deaths. It doesn't help IMO, for supporters of these two groups to claim that the other group doesn't support their goals because their privilege makes them blind to the needs of others.

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I don't know if that kind of "they just don't know better" talk is more or less elitist than just calling them deplorables

yeah me neither. to me it allows more room for dialogue, even though me initiating dialogue is basically motivated by paternalism, which is like the least punk attitude of all time

[TuralyonW3]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

When you said we share a fav band were you talking about SLEEP or Borisu?

Boris but I love SLEEP just as much if not more

[vixnix]

I would never have voted for Trump and I'm ashamed to say that I have been unsuccessful in convincing my husband, a white, employed, educated man in his 30s who has been handed every good thing in life except for a blonde trophy wife, that he was being a selfish, deluded prick in thinking that Trump would make a good president. One friend told me I should divorce him, just for that.

It's impossible to reason with him sometimes. I definitely, definitely get that Trump appeals to white supremacists and assholes, and truly evil people who just want to usher in a new world order now that they're at the top of the pile.

I don't think all Trump supporters are harmless. THey're not. But to me, fuzzy seems to be.

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by TuralyonW3

Boris but I love SLEEP just as much if not more

Yeah Sleep is up there with mbv for me.

but Boris is my obsession.

next question have you played starcraft ii?

[LaBelle]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Isn't it a sign of your privilege that you place the protection of this group of people above the protection of children through their parents provision for them, which in turn requires them to have secure employment, which requires job creation...which was one of the big promises Trump made?

An increasing number of families are facing homelessness in the U.S. and parents need meaningful and properly compensated employment. If you are trying to put food on the table for your kids and a roof over your head, or if that is the most pressing need you see around you, where you live, you're going to vote according to those interests.

It's no different to you seeing the most pressing need as legal protection for those who are currently marginalised and persecuted by society at large.

Both of these groups are affected by a truly shameful number of preventable deaths. It doesn't help IMO, for supporters of these two groups to claim that the other group doesn't support their goals because their privilege makes them blind to the needs of others.

When Obama took office the unemployment rate was at 10% and he left it at 4,6%.
The whole jobs angle trump took was a big fat lie.

And i'm sure taking affordable healthcare away from the population is in the best interest of those raising kids.

[LaBelle]

And yes I do feel very privileged being a gay woman in brazil where the rate of crimes against gay people rises at about 30% per year.
A country where conversion therapy is actually getting traction and might get approved as legal and can be prescribed by doctors.
A country with about 12 billion people who can't read or write.
Where women who are victims of rape run the risk of getting raped again by the police if they try and press charges.
And a country with 12% (and rising) unemployment rate.

Such privilege

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by LaBelle

When Obama took office the unemployment rate was at 10% and he left it at 4,6%.
The whole jobs angle trump took was a big fat lie.

And i'm sure taking affordable healthcare away from the population is in the best interest of those raising kids.

I mean, everything he said was a lie, if it was coherent enough for truth-testing.

I don't want to seem like I'm defending him or his claims because I'm not.

I'm defending people who are called bigots and fascists because they were attracted to Trump's message.

Many bigots and fascists were excited by a Trump victory and it's a disaster that he's become president.

But I think a lot of people who are not bigots or fascists were also attracted to the Trump platform, that's all.

[LaBelle]

Originally Posted by vixnix

I mean, everything he said was a lie, if it was coherent enough for truth-testing.

I don't want to seem like I'm defending him or his claims because I'm not.

I'm defending people who are called bigots and fascists because they were attracted to Trump's message.

Many bigots and fascists were excited by a Trump victory and it's a disaster that he's become president.

But I think a lot of people who are not bigots or fascists were also attracted to the Trump platform, that's all.

Yes, for sure. I agree to an extent.
But like I said about fuzzy earlier, if he didn't continually support the narrow, discriminating views he does people would have way less of a problem with him.
Me included.

[vixnix]

Yeah definitely.

I would stick up for him a lot more if it didn't mean being associated with some of the opinions he expresses.

[buzzard]

If he didn't express those opinions, would he need the sticking up?

[LaBelle]