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Old 12-16-2017, 08:57 PM   #1
fuzzyroes
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Default Be honest: Do you think SD and MCIS are a little overrated around the fan community?

They're both really good albums. Around here they're looked upon as these legendary, epic albums though and I think that they can be a little overrated.

While they both feature epic material, I'd say neither of them are completely epic albums. They each have their share of underwhelming material.

If I'm being honest, even a song like Silverfuck (which is an obvious fan favorite) is simply alright as far as I'm concerned. Sure, it was badass as a little kid... But now? ehhh not the best song.

 
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:26 PM   #2
teh b0lly!!1
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hahaha

ok let's ease into it

3

2

1

when you're ready

 
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:16 PM   #3
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no

next

 
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:45 PM   #4
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Look, I'm not saying they're not 90's classics... It's just around here people make em out to be the holy grail of music.

I guess every legendary album is overrated in it's own right though. I just don't think that the Pumpkins were really doing anything all that genre defying though... Even though it kicked some major ass

 
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:48 PM   #5
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I'll say one thing though, if an SP album can be argued as truly legendary, then it's Siamese Dream... I don't think MCIS is in the same league at all.

 
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:49 PM   #6
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Even though personally, I sometimes enjoy MCIS more... But I've being critical SD has to be SP's crown jewel.

 
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Old 12-17-2017, 01:52 AM   #7
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Okay: Being honest? No.

They are looked at as some of the best albums of the decade and that is not a Netphoria thing, that is an everywhere thing.

You have probably overplayed them enough so that they're now mundane to your ears. Familiarity breeds boredom and contempt. Let them sit for a good long while until listening to them feels fresh again.

 
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:43 AM   #8
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nope

 
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:47 AM   #9
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Old 12-17-2017, 05:18 AM   #10
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i'd say that neither of the two are groundbreaking or revolutionary. they are really good, SD is usually considered among the top 10 rock albums of the 90s. that's what the general opinion seems to be.
any fanbase will have a tendency to overpraise a band's material.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:18 AM   #11
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SD, not at all.
MCIS, a little. Would have been a legendary single album.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:30 AM   #12
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no! wtf man

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:31 AM   #13
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those two albums still make me smile just reading their titles

i mean.....what

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:35 AM   #14
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they aren't 100% perfect but yes they are groundbreaking and deserve all their praise. they are the two albums (along with gish and PI) that make me so sad about what happened afterward

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:07 AM   #15
teh b0lly!!1
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i always felt like MCIS was intended to be the band's White Album, kind of a display of power in a dizzying array of genres and excelling at all of them. and while it partially succeeds at that, and has some of the band's top work, my personal opinion is that there are simply too many sub-par songs on MCIS to truly allow it a Classic Album trophy. it's still very good, but just too flawed.

if you condensed all the best songs into one CD it would result in an enormous album, but then you'd lose all those other songs which i still like, and with so many years in the rearview mirror it's hard to say which ones are so important to the vibe of the record and which are dispensable. because the record does have a very good atmosphere/mood/theme running through all of it. so it's hard to tell.

SD, for better or worse, is the band "playing by the rules" as hard as they ever did, delivering a very consistent, thoroughly fleshed out album, with great songs and great parts and great production and a great sound that was unique to the band (except for, you know, My Bloody Valentine). so it could easily be alluded to as their best album by many, but to those who know the band deeply, there's just no way you can pick any one album - they're a "WHOLE DISCOGRAPHY" kinda band, in every sense of the word.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post

if you condensed all the best songs into one CD it would result in an enormous album, but then you'd lose all those other songs which i still like.

Which is why the myriad b-sides worked so well. Fuckng 5 non-album songs on 1979! Madnesses! So much more to uncover than just the album!

Last edited by Fonzie : 12-18-2017 at 03:08 AM.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
i always felt like MCIS was intended to be the band's White Album, kind of a display of power in a dizzying array of genres and excelling at all of them. and while it partially succeeds at that, and has some of the band's top work, my personal opinion is that there are simply too many sub-par songs on MCIS to truly allow it a Classic Album trophy. it's still very good, but just too flawed.
It's better than the White Album. The White Album is overrated. It has Why Don't We Do It In The Road on it; a horrendous song, in my opinion.
Quote:
if you condensed all the best songs into one CD it would result in an enormous album,
Indeed. And I think this would have been better for Billy's reputation and status as a songwriter. He wouldn't be moaning about not being appreciated in this culture if he had condensed it into 14 songs or so. People would talk about it like they talk about OK Computer and Nevermind in my opinion. But he had too many songs to choose from, and when he's got choices to make, he usually plumps for the wrong one. And he had to be grandiose and go for a double-album. He couldn't restrain his ego from going all out. He had to self-indulge. I think it was a mistake.

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness"
"Tonight, Tonight"
"Jellybelly"
"Zero"
"Here Is No Why"
"Bullet with Butterfly Wings"
"Thirty-Three"
"1979"
"Thru the Eyes of Ruby"
"Muzzle"
"Porcelina of the Vast Oceans"
"X.Y.U."
"Beautiful"
"The Aeroplane Flies High (Turns Left, Looks Right)

Something like the above would have cemented Billy's place in the upper echelons of ROCK N ROLL!

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:14 AM   #18
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There is some arch blasphemy going on in this thread.

MCIS should have been a seven disc saga, with the gravity demos fully realized and a 50 minute version of silverfuck.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:22 AM   #19
teh b0lly!!1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Cane View Post
It's better than the White Album. The White Album is overrated. It has Why Don't We Do It In The Road on it; a horrendous song, in my opinion.
the white album is not overrated, it is one of my favs and it sparks murderous fury in my heart that you say so. in fact, "why don't we do it in the road" is, indeed, a great track, and you are a piece of crap doo doo head.

yea that's right i said DOO DOO HEAD.

i don't suggest fighting me on this son, i went to the marines and i can come up behind you and slice your neck in a second.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:25 AM   #20
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With your bear hands?

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
There is some arch blasphemy going on in this thread.

MCIS should have been a seven disc saga, with the gravity demos fully realized and a 50 minute version of silverfuck.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:55 AM   #22
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most of this thread proves this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by panda show View Post
any fanbase will have a tendency to overpraise a band's material.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:05 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Cane View Post
It's better than the White Album. The White Album is overrated. It has Why Don't We Do It In The Road on it; a horrendous song, in my opinion.

Indeed. And I think this would have been better for Billy's reputation and status as a songwriter. He wouldn't be moaning about not being appreciated in this culture if he had condensed it into 14 songs or so. People would talk about it like they talk about OK Computer and Nevermind in my opinion. But he had too many songs to choose from, and when he's got choices to make, he usually plumps for the wrong one. And he had to be grandiose and go for a double-album. He couldn't restrain his ego from going all out. He had to self-indulge. I think it was a mistake.

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness"
"Tonight, Tonight"
"Jellybelly"
"Zero"
"Here Is No Why"
"Bullet with Butterfly Wings"
"Thirty-Three"
"1979"
"Thru the Eyes of Ruby"
"Muzzle"
"Porcelina of the Vast Oceans"
"X.Y.U."
"Beautiful"
"The Aeroplane Flies High (Turns Left, Looks Right)

Something like the above would have cemented Billy's place in the upper echelons of ROCK N ROLL!
what about Bodies, bro?

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:07 AM   #24
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Neither of these albums are overrated. They are classics in their own right, and if you outgrew them then that's your fault. Not Billy's. And fuck OK Computer.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:26 PM   #25
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I don't care about their status as classic but from about the SD era through Aeroplane about 95% of the tracks are more than worth the listen

could have been split into multiple more consistent releases maybe but ultimately what does it matter

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:36 PM   #26
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I would trade all the other albums for a fully fledged mcis, TEN DISC EXTRAVAGANZA!!!

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:07 PM   #27
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Mellon Collie remains perfect for its imperfections. No one says it was a flawless album, but all moments that did not work allowed songs that did work ("Zero," "1979") that deviated from the band's formula to that point.

Siamese Dream, however, does play like a truly perfect album in my ears.

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:10 PM   #28
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
they aren't 100% perfect but yes they are groundbreaking and deserve all their praise. they are the two albums (along with gish and PI) that make me so sad about what happened afterward
Explain in detail how they are ground breaking?

 
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:09 PM   #30
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i don't think so.. but i put on adore the other day, which used to be my favorite, and honestly think it's the most dated sounding record of the 1991-2000 releases. it's pretty bad, imo, or maybe i just wasn't in the right mood. machina has bad moments but something about that one hit me the right way the other day, and machina 2 is terrific.

 
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