'American Taleban' jailed for 20 years

scouse_dave · 10-04-2002, 08:12 PM

A US court has sentenced John Walker Lindh, the "American Taleban," to 20 years in jail for fighting for the ousted regime in Afghanistan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2298433.stm

DeviousJ · 10-04-2002, 08:16 PM

Is it legal to attack a country, and then incarcerate the defending soldiers? I guess he could have tried to quit when he found out what was happening, but how easy would it have been to walk out of there? Weird.

scouse_dave · 10-04-2002, 08:19 PM

technically, it was treason i suppose...

whether that's carried out in the US or Afghanistan is irrelevant in this case i presume

DeviousJ · 10-04-2002, 08:21 PM

Is it treason if you're attacked though? Maybe it is... 20 years seems a bit harsh though, especially considering Bush was feeling sorry for him. I think his sentence is probably more symbolic than anything

Samsa · 10-04-2002, 08:23 PM

yeah i thought it was lame too 'till i just read something a day or two ago basically mentioning that he knew september 11 was gonna happen. whatever.

Fattening Ass · 10-04-2002, 08:25 PM

burn the witch!

scouse_dave · 10-04-2002, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeviousJ
Is it treason if you're attacked though?

hmm...i dunno...you have a point.

i think they may be a bit of a grey area. i'm assuming that this fella was still technically a US citizen..if that was the case, as the article assumes, then no matter how it came about...he was fighting a battle against his own country

20 years does seem harsh tho...

i don't know what i think about this...

sppunk · 10-04-2002, 08:55 PM

It's sad to see a young man get sentenced to 20 years of prision for STANDING UP FOR WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS FUCKING RIGHT!

Undone · 10-04-2002, 08:58 PM

And I'd love to know the differences between Afghani and US prisons.

tootsie · 10-04-2002, 09:46 PM

pah, he didnt stand up for anything. he said that he wanted to leave the taliban & tell the usa about the wtc & pent attacks but was afraid he would be killed.

anything for a plea bargain i suppose.

10-05-2002, 02:05 AM

Even if Walker knew about Sept. 11 he does not deserve a 20-year sentence. What was he supposed to do, tell OBL to simma down.

In fact, if Walker really knew about Sept. 11 that may actually be points in his favor because it is proof that he was in way too deep. If he knew about Sept. 11, I don't think he was going to be all the sudden able to leave Afghanistan alive.

Seems like the scum that is Al-Qaeda would have had a slight problem with an American Taliban who knew of the coming attack on the WTC to just suddenly leave the Middle East and return to America. They probably would have been a little worried that he would tell someone of their plans.

So, while there are good arguments for and against Walker's 20-year sentence, the fact that he knew about Sept. 11 is not an argument for a harsh sentence but rather an argument against a harsh sentence.

Homerpalooza · 10-05-2002, 03:04 AM

I dunno, I doubt that Lindh knew about what was really going down on 9/11. I mean, I'm pretty sure some of the 19 hijackers didn't even know what was really going on.

This is such a unique case that who really knows what the sentence should have been.

Elvis The Fat Years · 10-05-2002, 03:10 AM

so i think its fair that we give anyone who goes against netphoria 40 years.

aspecialkid · 10-05-2002, 04:31 AM

tootsie, i still owe your man 10 bucks, he will get it one of these days..

The Omega Concern · 05:57 AM

What's done is done. 20 years is fair, all things considered.

I have a certain amount of empathy for him. I dont know what its like to have my Father turn gay when I hit adolescence, then run off with another man to run a bathhouse in San Francisco (tis true). I suppose I would want to change my last name from his, like he did (in his case, Lindh to Walker). But the whole Muslim/Jihad thing is a little out of my league.

BeautifulLoser · 10-05-2002, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sppunk
It's sad to see a young man get sentenced to 20 years of prision for STANDING UP FOR WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS FUCKING RIGHT!

I could stand up for the right to rape little children, that doesn't mean it's right. The guy knowingly fought US soldiers. He knew what he was fight for. Hell, he probably wouldn't have gotten in as much if any trouble if he would have just put down his weapon, threw up his hands and said "Hey, I'm American!!"...

BeautifulLoser · 10-05-2002, 07:24 AM

Besides, if they were to let him go, I'm sure some redneck/moron would have hunted him down and beat him.

DeviousJ · 10-05-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
I could stand up for the right to rape little children, that doesn't mean it's right. The guy knowingly fought US soldiers. He knew what he was fight for. Hell, he probably wouldn't have gotten in as much if any trouble if he would have just put down his weapon, threw up his hands and said "Hey, I'm American!!"...

So he was basically supposed to stand up in the middle of a firefight, shout 'hey guys, USA here!' and stroll on over, possibly slapping a few Taliban on the back on his way, remarking 'it was fun guys, but I gotta go'... Like Homerpalooza said, I doubt he knew anything about Sept 11 - why would they tell random soldiers (particularly US nationals) about secret plans to hurt the US? He was probably in the wrong place at the wrong time, suddenly discovering that the country he is helping out is under attack from US forces (and Northern Alliance troops, who were incidentally one of the rebel factions he would probably have been defending against initially). Who knows how he acted? Did he keep his loyalty to the Taliban and try to kill as many enemy troops as possible? Did he try to make sure he didn't kill any US troops in the field? Maybe he intentionally aimed away from anyone, and hoped it would all end quickly... whatever he did, unless it was proven that he killed a US soldier (and even that would depend on the circumstances) I still think 20 years is a long time for a political prisoner.

Crippler · 10-05-2002, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeviousJ

So he was basically supposed to stand up in the middle of a firefight, shout 'hey guys, USA here!' and stroll on over, possibly slapping a few Taliban on the back on his way, remarking 'it was fun guys, but I gotta go'... Like Homerpalooza said, I doubt he knew anything about Sept 11 - why would they tell random soldiers (particularly US nationals) about secret plans to hurt the US? He was probably in the wrong place at the wrong time, suddenly discovering that the country he is helping out is under troops as possible? Did he try to make sure he didn't kill any US attack from US forces (and Northern Alliance troops, who were incidentally one of the rebel factions he would probably have been defending against initially). Who knows how he acted? Did he keep his loyalty to the Taliban and try to kill as many enemy troops in the field? Maybe he intentionally aimed away from anyone, and hoped it would all end quickly... whatever he did, unless it was proven that he killed a US soldier (and even that would depend on the circumstances) I still think 20 years is a long time for a political prisoner.

There's no point in defending someone based sheerly on hypotheticals, unless you consider the filpside of the coin. What if he was and did none of the things you mentioned? What we do know is that he's a US national who helped a hostile regime, and thus, is guilty of treason.

If I'm a criminal, and I'm in the middle of a bank robbery, I'm not going to quit mid-job and run out to the police, even if an angel appears on my shoulder and convinces me it's wrong. Doing so defys all sorts of common sense. I'm in too deep at this point.

Same with Mr. US Taliban.

DeviousJ · 10-05-2002, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crippler

There's no point in defending someone based sheerly on hypotheticals, unless you consider the filpside of the coin. What if he was and did none of the things you mentioned? What we do know is that he's a US national who helped a hostile regime, and thus, is guilty of treason.

If I'm a criminal, and I'm in the middle of a bank robbery, I'm not going to quit mid-job and run out to the police, even if an angel appears on my shoulder and convinces me it's wrong. Doing so defys all sorts of common sense. I'm in too deep at this point.

Same with Mr. US Taliban.

The point I was making was that the fact he was helping the Taliban at the time does not mean he was necessarily fighting the US - I don't know what he did while he was there, but neither does anyone else here. And it's unlikely the US authorities do, he was probably rounded up with the rest of them only to identify himself as a US citizen. Plus, don't forget the regime was only 'hostile' because the US was attacking them - the rules changed suddenly, and as such he couldn't just walk away knowing he would otherwise have to fight the US. Your bank analogy doesn't hold, because holding up a bank involves breaking already established laws, whereas this guy was doing nothing illegal at first - don't forget, the US and the Taliban used to be on good terms.

BeautifulLoser · 10-05-2002, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeviousJ

The point I was making was that the fact he was helping the Taliban at the time does not mean he was necessarily fighting the US - I don't know what he did while he was there, but neither does anyone else here. And it's unlikely the US authorities do, he was probably rounded up with the rest of them only to identify himself as a US citizen. Plus, don't forget the regime was only 'hostile' because the US was attacking them - the rules changed suddenly, and as such he couldn't just walk away knowing he would otherwise have to fight the US. Your bank analogy doesn't hold, because holding up a bank involves breaking already established laws, whereas this guy was doing nothing illegal at first - don't forget, the US and the Taliban used to be on good terms.

I'm sure that the authorities involved know the details... or at least at lot more than we do. So there's no way we could argue this here...

Crippler · 10-05-2002, 04:08 PM

The man made the desicion in sound mind and body to join the Taliban awhile ago, and he had to accept everything that goes with that oath. The shit hit the fan, and in this case, he's gonna get lumped in with everyone. It's how the world works.

scouse_dave · 10-05-2002, 04:38 PM

i just wonder what would have happened if this bloke had became an afghan citizen first...

i think he was somewhat naive to be over there in the first place

but 20 years ? for so-called 'treason', i can assume?

he got harshly treated in my book

10-04-2002, 08:12 PM	#1
scouse_dave Minion of Satan Location: Manchester Posts: 5,089	'American Taleban' jailed for 20 years A US court has sentenced John Walker Lindh, the "American Taleban," to 20 years in jail for fighting for the ousted regime in Afghanistan. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2298433.stm __________________ i could be a genius...if i put my mind to it

10-04-2002, 08:19 PM	#3
scouse_dave Minion of Satan Location: Manchester Posts: 5,089	technically, it was treason i suppose... whether that's carried out in the US or Afghanistan is irrelevant in this case i presume __________________ i could be a genius...if i put my mind to it

10-04-2002, 08:25 PM	#6
Fattening Ass Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: Planet Nintendu 64 Posts: 30,825	burn the witch! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-04-2002, 08:58 PM	#9
Undone Apocalyptic Poster Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,335	So how's parole looking? And I'd love to know the differences between Afghani and US prisons.

10-05-2002, 05:23 AM	#15
The Omega Concern Banned Location: stay, far, away Posts: 8,997	What's done is done. 20 years is fair, all things considered. I have a certain amount of empathy for him. I dont know what its like to have my Father turn gay when I hit adolescence, then run off with another man to run a bathhouse in San Francisco (tis true). I suppose I would want to change my last name from his, like he did (in his case, Lindh to Walker). But the whole Muslim/Jihad thing is a little out of my league. Last edited by The Omega Concern : 10-05-2002 at 05:57 AM.

10-04-2002, 08:16 PM	#2
DeviousJ CORNFROST Location: GUREITO DESU YO Posts: 24,891	Is it legal to attack a country, and then incarcerate the defending soldiers? I guess he could have tried to quit when he found out what was happening, but how easy would it have been to walk out of there? Weird.

10-04-2002, 08:21 PM	#4
DeviousJ CORNFROST Location: GUREITO DESU YO Posts: 24,891	Is it treason if you're attacked though? Maybe it is... 20 years seems a bit harsh though, especially considering Bush was feeling sorry for him. I think his sentence is probably more symbolic than anything

10-04-2002, 08:23 PM	#5
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	yeah i thought it was lame too 'till i just read something a day or two ago basically mentioning that he knew september 11 was gonna happen. whatever.

10-04-2002, 08:55 PM	#8
sppunk Netphoria's George Will Location: Fenway Park Posts: 37,125	It's sad to see a young man get sentenced to 20 years of prision for STANDING UP FOR WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS FUCKING RIGHT!

10-04-2002, 09:46 PM	#10
tootsie Minion of Satan Location: go go gadget goggler Posts: 5,346	pah, he didnt stand up for anything. he said that he wanted to leave the taliban & tell the usa about the wtc & pent attacks but was afraid he would be killed. anything for a plea bargain i suppose.

10-05-2002, 02:05 AM	#11
Boner Posts: n/a	Even if Walker knew about Sept. 11 he does not deserve a 20-year sentence. What was he supposed to do, tell OBL to simma down. In fact, if Walker really knew about Sept. 11 that may actually be points in his favor because it is proof that he was in way too deep. If he knew about Sept. 11, I don't think he was going to be all the sudden able to leave Afghanistan alive. Seems like the scum that is Al-Qaeda would have had a slight problem with an American Taliban who knew of the coming attack on the WTC to just suddenly leave the Middle East and return to America. They probably would have been a little worried that he would tell someone of their plans. So, while there are good arguments for and against Walker's 20-year sentence, the fact that he knew about Sept. 11 is not an argument for a harsh sentence but rather an argument against a harsh sentence.

10-05-2002, 03:04 AM	#12
Homerpalooza Pledge Location: san jose, ca Posts: 242	I dunno, I doubt that Lindh knew about what was really going down on 9/11. I mean, I'm pretty sure some of the 19 hijackers didn't even know what was really going on. This is such a unique case that who really knows what the sentence should have been.

10-05-2002, 03:10 AM	#13
Elvis The Fat Years 007 373 5963 Posts: 31,408	so i think its fair that we give anyone who goes against netphoria 40 years.

10-05-2002, 04:31 AM	#14
aspecialkid THE COOK Location: MI, LA, NYC, Chicago, Miami Posts: 2,010	tootsie, i still owe your man 10 bucks, he will get it one of these days..

10-05-2002, 07:24 AM	#17
BeautifulLoser Socialphobic Location: Middle of somewhere Posts: 13,755	Besides, if they were to let him go, I'm sure some redneck/moron would have hunted him down and beat him.

10-05-2002, 04:38 PM	#23
scouse_dave Minion of Satan Location: Manchester Posts: 5,089	i just wonder what would have happened if this bloke had became an afghan citizen first... i think he was somewhat naive to be over there in the first place but 20 years ? for so-called 'treason', i can assume? he got harshly treated in my book __________________ i could be a genius...if i put my mind to it

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