Richard Dawkins

[yo soy el mejor]

but you guys i really like the physical act of going and being present in a church. it's humbling. it's somber. and it helps me think.

[duovamp]

According to you, you can hide behind any belief and call it your religion, and suddenly it's freedom of religion, and now you can do whatever the fuck you want.

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by duovamp

It took people KILLING them for them to stop believing in it. The Civil War was waged to keep the freedom of this belief thoroughly in check.

Right because those people wanted to own slaves cause of the bible and not because they liked having slaves.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor

but you guys i really like the physical act of going and being present in a church. it's humbling. it's somber. and it helps me think.

Interesting. You might also consider: a museum or a forest or a field or the beach or a mountain top or a lakefront or a an abandoned warehouse or a Dairy Queen parking lot at night

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

i fucking nailed it, really. you could easily give up notre dame football and sunday afternoon nfl without facing the kind of reckoning a religious person would for giving up their family and their culture so they can, in your words, avoid offending you


you really are one of the whitest, most privledged and cultrally fucking clueless of white guys. if you werent gay youd vote republican.

Can you please just stop? I know you detest me. Really, I do. But comparing me watching football (which I won't even defend) to people belonging to religions whose doctrines say I will literally burn in hell is a bad analogy.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Right because those people wanted to own slaves cause of the bible and not because they liked having slaves.

Unlike hating gays of course, which is just a naturally occurring thing.

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by duovamp

According to you, you can hide behind any belief and call it your religion, and suddenly it's freedom of religion, and now you can do whatever the fuck you want.

Can you read? Explicitly not what I said. People can believe what they want, but they shouldn't be allowed to translate that belief into actions that restrict the liberties of others in ways like, say, stopping Eulogy from getting married.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Right because those people wanted to own slaves cause of the bible and not because they liked having slaves.

You didn't respond to my question about why you feel like we need freedom of religion but not the freedom to criticize it.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Can you read? Explicitly not what I said. People can believe what they want, but they shouldn't be allowed to translate that belief into actions that restrict the liberties of others in ways like, say, stopping Eulogy from getting married.

But

They do that.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Can you read? Explicitly not what I said. People can believe what they want, but they shouldn't be allowed to translate that belief into actions that restrict the liberties of others in ways like, say, stopping Eulogy from getting married.

You think people can create a barrier between their religions and their actions?

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by duovamp

Oh okay so having utterly insane beliefs about an afterlife and magical Sky Bro who hands out rewards and punishments and had a son put in a virgin etc is a fine way to live your life so long as you don't actually operate with any of this nonsense in mind. That'll surely work.

You say those beliefs are insane, but you don't deny the possibility the allegory is the best way to represent what happened?


You come off as too close minded to consider an "as above, so below" ethos. Virgin births and Eve from Adam's rib is old DNA manipulation from those Sky Bros, as you say. The science they let us know about can do this now...truth is, we're just now getting around to it but its been here (in vitro, cloning, etc.) the whole time.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

you really are one of the whitest, most privledged and cultrally fucking clueless of white guys. if you werent gay youd vote republican.

You can repeat this until you're blue in the face. It is not true. You can't point to a single stance I've ever taken that leads to this conclusion. So please just stop.

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by duovamp

Unlike hating gays of course, which is just a naturally occurring thing.

Or stoning women to death for committing adultery? Lots of evidence to show that these attitudes recede after society deems them unacceptable. Criticise institutions that defend child molesters, criticise institutions that campaign to compromise the freedom of homosexuals, absolutely. But don't tell people that they have to stop believing in God because other people who believe in God do bad things.

[Eulogy]

Do you people really think it would destroy peoples lives if they went to an episcopalian church instead of a catholic one

Like really

Really?

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by duovamp

You think people can create a barrier between their religions and their actions?

YOU SERIOUSLY DONT?!?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Or stoning women to death for committing adultery? Lots of evidence to show that these attitudes recede after society deems them unacceptable. Criticise institutions that defend child molesters, criticise institutions that campaign to compromise the freedom of homosexuals, absolutely. But don't tell people that they have to stop believing in God because other people who believe in God do bad things.

No one is saying that

For fucks sake

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Do you people really think it would destroy peoples lives if they went to an episcopalian church instead of a catholic one

Like really

Really?

Do you realise how this easy for you to say?

[Eulogy]

The problem with most of you is that you don't actually read what anyone says. You somehow come to the conclusion that I want to force people to stop believing in a deity and then cackle as they sob and then you work backward from there

Try reading.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Can you please just stop? I know you detest me. Really, I do. But comparing me watching football (which I won't even defend) to people belonging to religions whose doctrines say I will literally burn in hell is a bad analogy.

hm maybe allcaps will help:

YOU CANT EVEN GIVE UP SOMETHING AS TRIVIAL AND DUMB AS FOOTBALL OR YOUR ALMA MATER, WHICH IS CATHOLIC BTW AND INDIRECTLY SUPPORTS THE CHURCH AND RELIGION, SO HOW THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT SOMEONE TO QUIT SOMETHING AS CULTURALLY SIGNIFICANT AS THEIR FAITH.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Do you realise how this easy for you to say?

Coming from a supremely catholic family that includes a goddamn Catholic priest I think I understand more than most of you, actually.

[Sonic Johnny]

You want them to switch churches. Maybe not a big deal to an atheist but to a lot of people of a particular denomination that's significant.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

hm maybe allcaps will help:

YOU CANT EVEN GIVE UP SOMETHING AS TRIVIAL AND DUMB AS FOOTBALL OR YOUR ALMA MATER, WHICH IS CATHOLIC BTW AND INDIRECTLY SUPPORTS THE CHURCH AND RELIGION, SO HOW THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT SOMEONE TO QUIT SOMETHING AS CULTURALLY SIGNIFICANT AS THEIR FAITH.

You didn't actually respond to my point.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

The problem with most of you is that you don't actually read what anyone says. You somehow come to the conclusion that I want to force people to stop believing in a deity and then cackle as they sob and then you work backward from there

Try reading.

that must be it. everyone else is stupid, you couldnt POSSIBLY be wrong. everyone is MUCH stupider than you are

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Or stoning women to death for committing adultery? Lots of evidence to show that these attitudes recede after society deems them unacceptable.

Excellent, I hope it keeps receding.

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

But don't tell people that they have to stop believing in God because other people who believe in God do bad things.

Belief in God is a bad thing, and causes people to do bad things, i.e. treat gays like shit, vote to keep children from learning biology, waste money on creation museums, withhold bread from poor starving people in other countries unless they accept Jesus, operate as though this life ultimately doesn't matter because there's another life you live after this one...

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

You want them to switch churches. Maybe not a big deal to an atheist but to a lot of people of a particular denomination that's significant.

It's also significant that many sects of Christianity literally teach that I am going to burn for all of eternity. Is it odd that I would push back against that?

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by duovamp

Belief in God is a bad thing, and causes people to do bad things, i.e. treat gays like shit, vote to keep children from learning biology, waste money on creation museums, withhold bread from poor starving people in other countries unless they accept Jesus, operate as though this life ultimately doesn't matter because there's another life you live after this one...

Oh right because the second you believe in God you abandon your autonomy and morality.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

that must be it. everyone else is stupid, you couldnt POSSIBLY be wrong. everyone is MUCH stupider than you are

I am not going to engage with you anymore. You're far too blinded by your hatred of me to actually have a conversation.

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

It's also significant that many sects of Christianity literally teach that I am going to burn for all of eternity. Is it odd that I would push back against that?

Wow you did a Bill Clinton job of avoiding answering that.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Wow you did a Bill Clinton job of avoiding answering that.

You didn't ask a question. If you do I'll answer

[Eulogy]

But then I actualy asked a question and you ignored it. Funny how that works.