2016 Presidential Primary

[Elphenor]

Part of being an actual populist is being genuinely interested in the problems the average citizen faces over the interests of the elite few

I don't see what is basically pandering to different groups to win elections as being populist. You might as well consider every politician populist

[Elphenor]

They differ on all those issues even foreign policy. The democrats are Neoliberals at this time in history but The Republicans are just lunatics

You have Cruz advocating immediate carpet bombing of the Middle East. Donald Trump advocating for more torture and murdering the families of our enemies

On economics conservatives want to remove the minimum wage and increase tax breaks for the rich

The Republicans want to cut SS and Medicaid/Medicare

They don't believe in global warming

The list goes on...

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I don't think Democrats would screw us

I am afraid they won't do enough and the banks will screw us

The "both sides are the same" argument is straight out of the know nothing book of politics

You're fucking clueless. Bill Clinton was the one who upended Glass-Steagal and deregulated the derivatives market that set the course for the bubble-economics we have today.


Do you want to know truth or be selective about it to protect your bias?

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

does it make you lonely that no one will ever read those words

Oh, well in case some of them missed it the first time...and nice to know you look the other way when faced with Hillary's treason:







The Butcher of Benghazi broke these laws.

U.S. 798 - disclosure of classified information

U.S. 793 - gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

U.S. 2071 - concealment, removal or mutilation

U.S. 3301 - department policy found in 5 FAM 443

Additionally:

Perjury (Numerous counts)

Obstruction of Justice (Multiple Counts)

She also failed to turn in and sign her OF-!09 form upon exiting her position at the state department. That carries very stiff fines and a maximum penalty of ten years in prison.



If she walks the government will never be able to prosecute a politician for such transgressions ever again. Lawlessness and anarchy will eventually overcome this nation.

That's why I say RBG; You support Hillary, you support Lawlessness.

[killtrocity]

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern

You're fucking clueless. Bill Clinton was the one who upended Glass-Steagal and deregulated the derivatives market that set the course for the bubble-economics we have today.


Do you want to know truth or be selective about it to protect your bias?

this takes like 7 seconds to look up on Wikipedia. Do your fucking homework, guys

[MyOneAndOnly]

Bill Clinton was a conservative

[Elphenor]

Didn't I just fucking say the last Clinton screwed us by deregulating the banks

Just scroll down a post from the one you quoted

[Elphenor]

Seriously fuck you

[Elphenor]

There isn't a bias in saying our democrats are moderate conservatives but our republicans are more akin to a radical insurgency that poses a serious threat to the entire planet

It's the reality

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Didn't I just fucking say the last Clinton screwed us by deregulating the banks

Just scroll down a post from the one you quoted

I saw it. But you didn't retract your initial point of view in it, which is that you don't believe Democrats would screw you over. Then I guess you remembered that they already did?

[Elphenor]

In that time period they did because Bill Clinton never was and never ran as a liberal

Following Jimmy Carter no one running as a leftist had a hope of being elected so the Democrats all ran on centrist policy and candidates

That has changed since Obama and I can not imagine a Democrat doing more deregulation at this time in history

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

There isn't a bias in saying our democrats are moderate conservatives but our republicans are more akin to a radical insurgency that poses a serious threat to the entire planet

It's the reality

That's a bias that goes beyond favoring one ideology over another in not recognizing that the criminality dissolves the meaning of the ideologies as moot.


Our politicians en masse have legalized bad business ethics for so long now, to merely throw around the Lib/Con terms as you have misses the point entirely of what the true threat is.

[Elphenor]

It's a lesser of two evils thing

But even someone like Noam Chomsky a staunch supporter of the "Money rules all politics" world view will concede that there are vast differences between the two parties atm

take an issue like Climate Change

Just last year there were efforts from the UN to create an international reduction in Carbon emissions. It didn't happen because The Republicans don't accept climate change as a scientific fact

These are the types of decision that could literally cause the extinction of mankind

[Elphenor]

Insurgency has a different specific meaning in politics

Idk if you want me to link you to dictionary.com or what

[Elphenor]

A meaning that you'll find in the dictionary

Because idk if you know this but in the English language context matters and words sometimes have multiple definitions

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Part of being an actual populist is being genuinely interested in the problems the average citizen faces over the interests of the elite few

I don't see what is basically pandering to different groups to win elections as being populist. You might as well consider every politician populist

I think that is an interesting definition given some of the most famous American populists. This premise that there is some objective common good for everyone in America is obviously false. What's "common good" for one group might be detrimental to another. Andrew Jackson only acted out of the goodness of his heart for the common good of the everyman, right?

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I think that is an interesting definition given some of the most famous American populists. This premise that there is some objective common good for everyone in America is obviously false. What's "common good" for one group might be detrimental to another. Andrew Jackson only acted out of the goodness of his heart for the common good of the everyman, right?

Common good for the majority of the population is what's important here.

Which is what would be considered "the common man"

One could theoretically be populist but have the wrong ideas

I don't put Trump in that category because it's pretty obvious pandering. He doesn't actually give a shit.

[redbreegull]

by your definition I'm not sure there has ever been a real populist in existence

[Elphenor]

Someone like Warren is a populist on the left

even Bernie Sanders

You get senators out of these very white northern states that can afford to make a career out of populism

[redbreegull]

Bernie Sanders is a populist who can't convince poor people or marginalized groups that his policies would be good for them? That doesn't really seem like your definition of populist unless you yourself are the arbiter of what is good for the common man

[Elphenor]

I'm actually sure that many populists of the past were anti-immigration I'm just not well read on my racists

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Bernie Sanders is a populist who can't convince poor people or marginalized groups that his policies would be good for them? That doesn't really seem like your definition of populist unless you yourself are the arbiter of what is good for the common man

are poor people or marginalized groups considered your ordinary people

[redbreegull]

I'm not sure I'm trying to understand your definition. Sanders appeal is mostly educated, young, and reasonably affluent. Is that the ordinary man?

[Elphenor]

Why does Sanders do better in a general election than Hillary according to polls?

Because he appeals to the wider majority once you account for independents

Hillary is winning because she has done a better job of forming coalitions with minority groups which make up a much more significant part of the democratic base

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Why does Sanders do better in a general election than Hillary according to polls?

Because he appeals to the wider majority once you account for independents

Hillary is winning because she has done a better job of forming coalitions with minority groups which make up a much more significant part of the democratic base

general election polling means absolutely nothing in the primaries so that's kind of a moot point.

I agree with the second part and it's tied to how I'm using populist.

[Elphenor]

appealing to minority groups while being a great thing in this situation, is not populism

[redbreegull]

the point I am trying to make is that populism is used really differently and has always been used really differently by different people and your definition is not like the textbook correct way to use the word

I mean saying Trump is not a populist because his appeal is phony versus pure beautiful Bernie Sanders is kind of silly to me, and still has this sort of premise that there is a single objective "common good" that can be determined and arbitrated. Trump's supporters see themselves as a popular revolution just like Sanders' supporters.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Common good for the majority of the population is what's important here.

also this seems utilitarian, not populist. I really think the best definition of populist is just someone who taps into popular sentiment and plays up that idea that their agenda is part of a popular movement

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

are poor people or marginalized groups considered your ordinary people

Actually this post is dumb

I was awake for 2 days straight, not articulating well

[Elphenor]

I do believe that Populism is defined by a genuine desire to address the everyday social ills of your constituency as you see yourself as one of them, as "of the people"

I think I am wrong however to claim there is zero populism in Hilary as these things could be better measured on a scale rather than an absolute