2016 Presidential Primary

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

.

[reprise85]

disco king is so consistently hilarious and on point i can barely take it

reminds me of luke de spa a bit tbh. i miss luke

[hnibos]

Yeah his posts make me want to bang him

[Disco King]

Aw shucks, thanks guys.

As for the Luke thing, I obviously didn't know him much, seeing as he passed away not long after I signed up here. But the few posts I did read kinda reminded me of this poster I liked a lot from the Oboard.

[Elphenor]

its both systemic racism and outright long held bigotry from whites

Not a conspiracy to put blacks in prison, nobody suggests that

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Poots

The fact that 83% of black children do not live with both of their parents and their poverty rate is 38% is probably the reason that they are more prone to law breaking and incarceration, rather than some country-wide conspiracy by racist whites to put black people in jail.

That level of conspiracy is beyond anything even the hardcore theorists like TOC could conjure up. Every judicial system in every state and county municipality have conspired to put black people in jail more than whites (or any other race), simply because they don't like blacks.

There is inherent racism in the justice system, though I don't think many judges are purposefully fucking with people. However, incarcerating so many black fathers has created this birth-to-prison pathway where black children grow up with a father in jail and their chances for delinquent behavior skyrockets, parent in jail, single parenthood which leads to poverty, poverty leads to living in shitty neighborhoods with drugs, and all of this greatly increases the likelyhood someone will end up in jail themselves and leave a new generation of kids without a father.

I do believe that there are plenty of police officers that target black people and neighborhoods, consciously or unconsciously, more often than white people. I can get some references if you really need them but these are well known practices.

[The Omega Concern]

Racism is part of the equation, but we don't have the highest incarceration rate in the world solely because of it. There's a prison-government complex as well, but it's the tail not the dog. That would be the police-state twitch of government which has been full throttle since 9/11.

[Elphenor]

I'd think you'd have to be from a different country to not know that our law enforcement has always been racist

It's something that's been around for so long that it's mostly just accepted, even joked about

[reprise85]

i wrote a paper about all of this last semester. 700% increase in prison population since 1970 in the usa

1. jailing poor people for being poor (some states charge fees for shit like issuing a warrant, issuing a public defender, court costs of course and in some states if you cant pay you go to jail, and interest accrues even when you're in jail)
2. racial profiling/poverty-to-prison-to-poverty cycle
3. for profit prisons
4. drug war
5. warehousing the mentally ill
6. mandatory minimums

[reprise85]

also juvenile sentencing i suppose. we even sentenced ppl who committed crimes as juveniles to death until 2005. we still give them life in prison, only other country in the UN who does this is somalia

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I'd think you'd have to be from a different country to not know that our law enforcement has always been racist

It's something that's been around for so long that it's mostly just accepted, even joked about

Yeah, I didn't say it wasn't racist.

If it was just that, then there'd be just about as many Asians in prison as Africans. They came here first as slaves as well, brought over because of the lack of them from Africa around the mid-1800's.


Today's prison population constitutes too many non-violent criminals that got caught up in the 'war on drugs' which took full steam immediately after Len Bias died. If you haven't seen ESPN's 30/30 special on the direct link between his O.D. and the legislature on crack cocaine and subsequent arrest rates since, then you're missing out.

Yes, I would say racism is part of it. But too many whites have been caught up in those laws as well for it to be considered targeted racism. It's far more than that.

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i wrote a paper about all of this last semester. 700% increase in prison population since 1970 in the usa

1. jailing poor people for being poor (some states charge fees for shit like issuing a warrant, issuing a public defender, court costs of course and in some states if you cant pay you go to jail, and interest accrues even when you're in jail)
2. racial profiling/poverty-to-prison-to-poverty cycle
3. for profit prisons
4. drug war
5. warehousing the mentally ill
6. mandatory minimums

yes. well done.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Poots

The fact that 83% of black children do not live with both of their parents and their poverty rate is 38% is probably the reason that they are more prone to law breaking and incarceration, rather than some country-wide conspiracy by racist whites to put black people in jail.

That level of conspiracy is beyond anything even the hardcore theorists like TOC could conjure up. Every judicial system in every state and county municipality have conspired to put black people in jail more than whites (or any other race), simply because they don't like blacks.

Nimrod's Son? Is that you?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern

Yeah, I didn't say it wasn't racist.

If it was just that, then there'd be just about as many Asians in prison as Africans. They came here first as slaves as well, brought over because of the lack of them from Africa around the mid-1800's.


Today's prison population constitutes too many non-violent criminals that got caught up in the 'war on drugs' which took full steam immediately after Len Bias died. If you haven't seen ESPN's 30/30 special on the direct link between his O.D. and the legislature on crack cocaine and subsequent arrest rates since, then you're missing out.

Yes, I would say racism is part of it. But too many whites have been caught up in those laws as well for it to be considered targeted racism. It's far more than that.

and crack possession is still disproportionately sentenced compared to powder cocaine (18-to-1) and yes i agree that this happened largely b/c of Bias' OD. so if you are charged with posession, you'd be eligible for a certain sentence at 1 gram of crack, but you'd have to have 18gs of powdered cocaine to get the same sentence. why? crack is associated with poor (and lots of black) drug addicts and cocaine is associated with rich white people. even more in the 80s when it was 100-to-1

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern

If it was just that, then there'd be just about as many Asians in prison as Africans.

Actually this might be true if it was JUST systemic racism

This actually makes the case for it not just being systemic but outright discrimination from individuals

post WW2 Asians have simply not been subjected to the same level of racism largely because, well, they're skin is whiter

For example, while in theory Jim Crow applied to all minorities it wasn't applied nearly evenly, with African Americans of course getting the worst treatment while Asians could do things like attend good schools even in the deep south without issues

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

its both systemic racism and outright long held bigotry from whites

Not a conspiracy to put blacks in prison, nobody suggests that

Good luck trying to get Poots to understand institutional discrimination, unconscious biases, and disparate impacts, are actual things and are so conceptually different from "conspiracies" that equating them is absurd. He's had this explained to him multiple times and has even shown signs of understanding it briefly before deciding that he doesn't want to anymore. Then I presume he hits himself on the head with a lead pipe and when he wakes up he's back to square one.

[redbreegull]

you are massively fucked in your head

[hnibos]

Toc is making more sense than poots =/ poor poots =/

[Disco King]

I mean, it's great that TOC is sensible on this issue, but it's sad that he probably thinks that somewhere down the line the underlying issue is the Jews being behind it all.

[hnibos]

Lizard jews*

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Poots

Black people committ more crime per capita than any other race. That is an uncomfortable fact for most people, but it is still a fact. I don't believe it has anything to do with genetics of race, but simply the two factors I mentioned above: poverty and the complete destruction of the black family.

I don't see any evidence to suggest systemic racism in the justice system could account for that big of a discrepancy. It would be a relief if systemic racism were true, as that would be a much less daunting problem to overcome than the two things mentioned above.

There are a few possible reasons why black people have a higher rate of incarceration.

1. they commit more crimes

2. they commit the same amount of crimes, but are targeted for enforcement more often

3. they commit more crimes AND are targeted for enforcement more often

4. they are given disproportionate sentences compared to white people

5. laws such as the crack vs cocaine sentencing discrepancy cause them to face longer sentences

i dont know which is correct from 1-3 (though i suspect 3), but 4 and 5 are definitely true. 4 and 5 are definitely linked to racism, systemic and personal racism. i dont see how you come to any other conclusion.

an interesting place to also look is to hispanics. hispanics, while not incarcerated as much as blacks, are jailed at a much higher rate than whites. do you think hispanics also commit more crimes than those not of hispanic origin? why would that be?

if you really want sources i will find them in google, i have pdfs on my hard drive. statistics are from the dept of justice.

[Elphenor]

They do commit more crimes per capita but it's because they have a higher rate of poverty which is what happens when you oppress a group for the entirety of your nations history

That is the main cause of the higher incarceration rate almost certainly

But in addition to that, there is the fact that law enforcement is predominately white all across the country, often even in black neighborhoods, and our justice system is predominately run by old white men

[Disco King]

"Remember kids that we need guns in order to protect ourselves from the powers of the state and their enforcer goons known as the police. But when the police and the state do kill some unarmed black kid, you should know that he was probably a thug that had it coming, as evidenced by the picture of him posing with a gun on his cellphone."
--Libertarians

[reprise85]

crack law is still there. it's 18-to-1 instead of 100-to-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Sentencing_Act

which is still wrong but at least not as bad

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Poots

Also, impoverished whites actually have a much higher incarceration rate than hispanics

Do you have stats for this? I can't find anything. But for general populations:

Black men had the highest imprisonment rate in every age group and were in state or
federal facilities 3.8 to 10.5 times more often than white men and 1.4 to 3.1 times more often than Hispanic men.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf

Almost 3% of black male U.S. residents of all ages were imprisoned on December 31, 2013, compared to 0.5% of white males
While there were fewer black females in state or federal prison at yearend 2013 than in 2012, black females were imprisoned at more than twice the rate of white females.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p13.pdf

[reprise85]

i don't see how that shows what you're saying. the only thing that correlates is that the amount of HS dropouts (presumably poor) whites incarcerated as of 2008 is more than blacks who were incarcerated in 1980 - but obviously, comparing 2008 to 2008, blacks are considerably more.

am i missing something? in hs dropouts in jail/prison as of 2008 is about 11-12% for whites and >35% for blacks

[reprise85]

I see, I forgot it was Hispanics and not Blacks. my bad

[reprise85]

Also, some hispanics are in jail for immigration violations. I don't know how much of a difference that makes, but it does. That article says very little about hispanics at all.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Poots

I think all of the people who are arguing the point about systemic racism would appreciate it if you would please stop trying to help.

You're dumb I give up

Or maybe willfully obtuse on this issue

It shouldn't take 4 people to explain racism to someone

[MyOneAndOnly]