Josh Duggar molested some kids

[reprise85]

the overwhelming unfairness of where nepalese children are in life doesn't detract from saying they are lucky to not be dead after a disaster, surely?

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by reprise85

their judgement is like 'violence is bad for children' which you know there are studies on and just is common sense, you're not even really saying it's not true, just that you feel like you had to do it anyway

and your judgement is like 'you don't really know what it's like you're not even a REAL parent with only one kid'

yes, I suppose.

It's more that I don't think people who are raising one child at a time, should judge parents who are raising a few children at a time who smack/spank their kids. I don't, not always. It depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it's hard to see how it can be avoided, and having someone with one child saying "you abused your kids by smacking them that one time) is really unhelpful.

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by reprise85

the overwhelming unfairness of where nepalese children are in life doesn't retract from saying they are lucky to not be dead after a disaster, surely?

Rationally, I think it does detract from it, yes.

[vixnix]

I don't think 'lucky' is an appropriate word choice in that situation, at all.

[pavementtune]

good thing your word choices are always perfectly fine.

like "pfft get over it."

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Rationally, I think it does detract from it, yes.

i mean there's relative suffering and absolute suffering. their relative suffering is very high, but unless you think they'd be better off dead (which is a decent argument really, but not one i'd think you'd make) i dont understand what you have a problem w/r/t saying they're lucky for not being dead. i mean we can say 'fortunate' or something but who gives a fuck

[reprise85]

ok guys let's not get out of control how about that josh duggar, a molester, who would have thought!

[Starla]

Originally Posted by vixnix

yes, I suppose.

It's more that I don't think people who are raising one child at a time, should judge parents who are raising a few children at a time who smack/spank their kids. I don't, not always. It depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it's hard to see how it can be avoided, and having someone with one child saying "you abused your kids by smacking them that one time) is really unhelpful.

I had two children at one time Vix. I guess if you feel having more than one child gives you some kind of authority to discuss parenting, then .. yeah. I'm not going after you personally, as a mother.. or judging your character, but I do feel you are misguided when you hit your kids, and I don't know if you fully understand the behavior problems and consequences you'll face later on for those choices. When you know better, you do better. I encourage you to re-read the posts of those who were hit as children.. maybe ask them how they see that as adults.

My celebrating D.'s parenting choices had nothing to do with you... I just like coming across other parents that share the same style of parenting that i do.

[pavementtune]

I've never seen whatever the show he's in is called, now I'm wondering if
people watch it and think "oh THAT'S the sister he molested, and THAT one" - or
did they cancel any broadcast of that stuff by now?

[vixnix]

You said miscarriage - from http://www.pregnancy-baby-care.com/p...-5-months.html

The fifth month of pregnancy covers the 17th to the 20th week. Contrary to what many people believe, it is possible to have a miscarriage at 5 months pregnant, even though the chances are very low. Most miscarriages occur within the first three months, or the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. As you cross the 13th week, you enter the second trimester, which is considered the safest part of pregnancy. Studies indicate that the risks of experiencing the signs of miscarriage at 5 months are as low as 1%.

I'm sorry that I didn't realise that you were talking about a miscarriage at 5 months that needed a D & C, but most people when they talk about miscarriages are talking about something that happens in the first 12 weeks. I'm sorry that I assumed that and I'm really sorry that it happened to you. And I'm sorry that I said what I did. I figured you wouldn't care what I said anyway, given that you think I'm crazy and an idiot and shithead and really given that judgment I mean who cares what I say to you really. You're not interested in it anyway.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by reprise85

oh god this thread

This is netphoria lol

[Starla]

Originally Posted by reprise85

dude im sorry

I am too, Elph.

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i mean there's relative suffering and absolute suffering. their relative suffering is very high, but unless you think they'd be better off dead (which is a decent argument really, but not one i'd think you'd make) i dont understand what you have a problem w/r/t saying they're lucky for not being dead. i mean we can say 'fortunate' or something but who gives a fuck

Their absolute poverty is very high. They have no sanitation, no clean water supply, no electricity - the child in question may not have family or friends to look after them. It's hard to see how, given the level of poverty already existing in Nepal, they will receive the mental health care they will need to recover from the trauma of being orphaned, or from the trauma of being raised by highly stressed, homeless, destitute parents...we are justified in saying they're not better off dead. In death there is an absence of a lot of suffering.

[pavementtune]

to end this vix - you are projecting. it's not the case that "I never liked you and always thought you are full of shit" - actually, if you recall that chatroom conversation, it was the other way round.

you waited and asked "nice" harmless questions, about my job, private life etc.
eventually you were happy to spill whatever hate you held back for a while now. you gathered ammunition, twisted it, and threw it right back at me.

so don't give me that "doesn't matter what I say you don't like me anyway."

for the record, I shouldn't have asked if you had taken your meds - but that wasn't meant in a "belittling" way. you shared how your dosages aren't working, how you quit some cold turkey, how you are getting worse again.

I was upset and tried to remind you that you are flying off whatever handle there is by mentioning your meds.


let's just leave it at that, and be done with it.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

you really are so deluded it's not even funny any more.
you do realize your memory of that conversation is nowhere near reality?

and nothing in that conversation justified to telling me to "pfft get over" having an unborn 5 months old child cut out of me a year ago.
NOTHING.

thing is, mentally ill and all - doesn't give you a free pass for everything.
you get off on being a vile cunt. good luck with that.

I'm so sorry for your loss, Nina.. I didn't know.

[pavementtune]

thank you, I'm okay by now, and the child plan is on hold for now.

however - which is obvious - what vixnix let out of her mouth got to me.
and I think she should know that what she spree-types is not shrugged off and
filed under "internet bullshit" by everyone.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by vixnix

Their absolute poverty is very high. They have no sanitation, no clean water supply, no electricity - the child in question may not have family or friends to look after them. It's hard to see how, given the level of poverty already existing in Nepal, they will receive the mental health care they will need to recover from the trauma of being orphaned, or from the trauma of being raised by highly stressed, homeless, destitute parents...we are justified in saying they're not better off dead. In death there is an absence of a lot of suffering.

i actually agree with you but didn't think you'd advocate that being dead was better than alive

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by Starla

I had two children at one time Vix. I guess if you feel having more than one child gives you some kind of authority to discuss parenting, then .. yeah. I'm not going after you personally, as a mother.. or judging your character, but I do feel you are misguided when you hit your kids, and I don't know if you fully understand the behavior problems and consequences you'll face later on for those choices. When you know better, you do better. I encourage you to re-read the posts of those who were hit as children.. maybe ask them how they see that as adults.

My celebrating D.'s parenting choices had nothing to do with you... I just like coming across other parents that share the same style of parenting that i do.

The posts of people here talk about implements and being made to fetch them so that their parents could use them to beat them - they also talk about being punched in the face.

There is a clear difference in my mind, and at law in most countries, between that behaviour, which is very definitely abuse, and a smack with an open hand which leaves only a transitory mark.

I wouldn't advocate it as a discipline strategy (open handed smacking leaving a transitory mark), and there are a lot of more effective, gentler ways to parent. But I definitely don't judge parents that use smacking, not straight off the bat. There are a some circumstances when I honestly don't know what else could work.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Starla

I'm so sorry for your loss, Nina.. I didn't know.

same

[Starla]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

I've never seen whatever the show he's in is called, now I'm wondering if
people watch it and think "oh THAT'S the sister he molested, and THAT one" - or
did they cancel any broadcast of that stuff by now?

TLC has cancelled the show and stopped reruns I think.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by vixnix

The posts of people here talk about implements and being made to fetch them so that their parents could use them to beat them - they also talk about being punched in the face.

There is a clear difference in my mind, and at law in most countries, between that behaviour, which is very definitely abuse, and a smack with an open hand which leaves only a transitory mark.

I wouldn't advocate it as a discipline strategy (open handed smacking leaving a transitory mark), and there are a lot of more effective, gentler ways to parent. But I definitely don't judge parents that use smacking, not straight off the bat. There are a some circumstances when I honestly don't know what else could work.

I'm not judging the parents, or their situations.. I'm judging the hitting. I don't think we'll ever be on the same page about this... because you're making excuses to hit your children, and even making excuses for other people who do, which is unacceptable.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

thank you, I'm okay by now, and the child plan is on hold for now.

however - which is obvious - what vixnix let out of her mouth got to me.
and I think she should know that what she spree-types is not shrugged off and
filed under "internet bullshit" by everyone.

I agree.. using someone's pain against them is where the line should be drawn. A loss is a loss, no matter what week of pregnancy it is. You plan and you start to have dreams for that child...

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

to end this vix - you are projecting. it's not the case that "I never liked you and always thought you are full of shit" - actually, if you recall that chatroom conversation, it was the other way round.

you waited and asked "nice" harmless questions, about my job, private life etc.
eventually you were happy to spill whatever hate you held back for a while now. you gathered ammunition, twisted it, and threw it right back at me.

so don't give me that "doesn't matter what I say you don't like me anyway."

for the record, I shouldn't have asked if you had taken your meds - but that wasn't meant in a "belittling" way. you shared how your dosages aren't working, how you quit some cold turkey, how you are getting worse again.

I was upset and tried to remind you that you are flying off whatever handle there is by mentioning your meds.


let's just leave it at that, and be done with it.

You say it this way, but you're not as nice as that. It's easy to be passive aggressive about this stuff and I think you are.

I didn't gather ammunition about you, I ask questions of everyone because I love people and I'm nosey and interested in them. I have a horrible habit of reformulating what I know about people and spitting it at them to hurt them, when I perceive that they are attempting to belittle me. It's a hangover from my childhood and I learned it from my Dad and later used it on him to survive his scathing verbal attacks on my character, appearance, and lack of accomplishments. I am genuinely sorry for hurting you, if I did. When I get into that place it's very hard to see anything except the anger and the hurt. I am happy to be done with it and I left chat thinking that if we were all still here years from now the time gone by might be enough that we could converse with each other again. I don't have anything against you except that you often hurt me like my father did, with ambivalent dismissiveness. It reopens old wounds I guess. Eulogy is the same. And Trots. I guess everybody is the same to me because of the transference and unresolved childhood trauma.

[Lucky Day Spa]

how about we all try to be nice to each other for a while, would that be so horrible?

[Lucky Day Spa]

i can barely formulate coherent sentences but i'm prepared to give it a go

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Lucky Day Spa

how about we all try to be nice to each other for a while, would that be so horrible?

that would be nice

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by Starla

I'm not judging the parents, or their situations.. I'm judging the hitting. I don't think we'll ever be on the same page about this... because you're making excuses to hit your children, and even making excuses for other people who do, which is unacceptable.

What would you do, in that situation, though? If you were my friend, and had four boys - 8,6,4 & 2. The 8 year old is mad that he never gets what he wants and runs away. The 2 year old is throwing a tantrum and has gone limp at your side. You're in a dangerous public place - the middle of the city. You had to go there because you're going home to see your mother after your grandmother had died but you realised that all of the kids passports have expired. You can't afford the urgent call out fee for four passports and have been dragging all the boys around all day, for photos, to have the forms witnessed, and now to the consulate in the city to have them processed.

What do you do?

[pavementtune]

Originally Posted by vixnix

You say it this way, but you're not as nice as that. It's easy to be passive aggressive about this stuff and I think you are.

I didn't gather ammunition about you, I ask questions of everyone because I love people and I'm nosey and interested in them. I have a horrible habit of reformulating what I know about people and spitting it at them to hurt them, when I perceive that they are attempting to belittle me. It's a hangover from my childhood and I learned it from my Dad and later used it on him to survive his scathing verbal attacks on my character, appearance, and lack of accomplishments. I am genuinely sorry for hurting you, if I did. When I get into that place it's very hard to see anything except the anger and the hurt. I am happy to be done with it and I left chat thinking that if we were all still here years from now the time gone by might be enough that we could converse with each other again. I don't have anything against you except that you often hurt me like my father did, with ambivalent dismissiveness. It reopens old wounds I guess. Eulogy is the same. And Trots. I guess everybody is the same to me because of the transference and unresolved childhood trauma.

read and trying to understand it. and no, I am definitely not nice - at all. I was simply saying if I had put effort into hurting you - because I'm not an amateur at what you described here, either- it wouldn't have come out as "harmless" as "have you taken your meds."
and like you, when I hit the "anger zone" - I don't see much else, and I know that I'm in no way better because I thought all the things I COULD have thrown back at you, if we had kept going. not much better, is it.

I'm sorry, too, vixnix.
now that I sulked about it for weeks, I guess we can leave that chapter behind? or at least we could try, because this sounds like a good idea - and less exhausting.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day Spa

how about we all try to be nice to each other for a while, would that be so horrible?

in a child molestation thread, no less!

[vixnix]

And if, knowing that, you saw a mother administer a couple of smacks to keep those four boys under control until they were back in the safety of their home, would your first thought really be "She is acting in an abusive way."

[vixnix]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

read and trying to understand it. and no, I am definitely not nice - at all. I was simply saying if I had put effort into hurting you - because I'm not an amateur at what you described here, either- it wouldn't have come out as "harmless" as "have you taken your meds."
and like you, when I hit the "anger zone" - I don't see much else, and I know that I'm in no way better because I thought all the things I COULD have thrown back at you, if we had kept going. not much better, is it.

I'm sorry, too, vixnix.
now that I sulked about it for weeks, I guess we can leave that chapter behind?

Yes please. I wish we could have a whiskey and a hug. I've missed you being around.