online porn distorting behaviour of boys and girls

[duovamp]

New law: you can't film yourself having sex in your own house

Sounds totally enforceable.

[Eulogy]

That's not what he's saying.

[Eulogy]

It'd be really easy for xtube to require verified accounts. And then anything on that account has to feature the account holder in it.

Did I solve your problem duo

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Poots

Just talking to your children doesn't mean that they will listen to you or obey you. I think all of us remember doing things as a child that our parents specifically told us not to. It seems like Eulogy wants to say "just talk to your kids and they won't look at porn or do nasty stuff to each other" which is vixnix level ignorance. I think he just wants to push it all off on the parents so he can look at unfiltered buttsecks with a clear conscience.

If you have a real conversation with your kid about sex and consent and then he ignores it and sexually assaults someone, I don't think you can blame fucking porn.

[Eulogy]

Hey Poots do you blame every gang murder in inner cities on movies?

I bet you don't.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

That's not what he's saying.

It is though because one of his problems is you can't verify user submitted material for consent. So no sites can accept user content for porn now? How can you control that? Give out porn licenses and only a few people can make porn? Make all parties submit consent materials with a notary stamp on them?

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

It'd be really easy for xtube to require verified accounts. And then anything on that account has to feature the account holder in it.

Did I solve your problem duo

So I can't film lesbian porn now in my living room?

[duovamp]

All porn becomes POV?

[duovamp]

And now the U.S. Govt cracks down on porn sites.

Yeah they won't just move their servers to Russia.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by duovamp

So I can't film lesbian porn now in my living room?

Not without a license to do so. Like a porn studio.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Poots

I don't think you can blame porn either, but it's certainly not helping the situation.

Are violent movies also not helping? Should we try to ban them?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Poots

I'm not talking about banning anything, only making it easier for parents to police what their children have access to.

How do you suggest doing that

[Eulogy]

Parents can already restrict Internet access at home. And kids don't need phones with Internet capabilities. So. ?

[Eulogy]

I'd like a serious answer but you're just going with a jokey version of "ban porn." Ok

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Not without a license to do so. Like a porn studio.

So now you have to apply to get one. Which has paperwork. And a fee. And has a bureau to review and verify, which is cost. So first of all there's bloat and expense.

And now the concern for abuse. We won't have republican officials yanking licenses from companies that make gay or alternative porn?

And now we have to say "No, you may not film you and your wife having consensual intercourse and sharing this with whomever wants it and is over the age of 18."

And if you violate this law are you a sex offender? Do you do jail time? Fines?

Again fifteen problems arise from trying to limit an act people commit in their bedrooms and the current free sharing thereof.

[duovamp]

AND AFTER ALL THAT YOU WOULD STILL HAVE KIDS ACCESSING BUTT PORN.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by duovamp

So now you have to apply to get one. Which has paperwork. And a fee. And has a bureau to review and verify, which is cost. So first of all there's bloat and expense.

And now the concern for abuse. We won't have republican officials yanking licenses from companies that make gay or alternative porn?

And now we have to say "No, you may not film you and your wife having consensual intercourse and sharing this with whomever wants it and is over the age of 18."

And if you violate this law are you a sex offender? Do you do jail time? Fines?

Again fifteen problems arise from trying to limit an act people commit in their bedrooms and the current free sharing thereof.

Make better rules for xtube verified accounts. It's really not as complicated as you're making it out to be.

And plenty of queer porn studios exist and haven't been threatened with shut downs by republicans.

[Eulogy]

And you could share that sex tape. Via xtube. Which could have free verified accounts like Twitter. Come on man.

[duovamp]

You did NOT address the licensing part at all.

[duovamp]

What if I want to start my own website where I upload my own personal videos of my wife and another woman I made in my living room?

[Eulogy]

Put it on your verified free xtube account. If you want to do professional porn, you get a license.

[duovamp]

Like how do you get a verified account on xhamster to upload porn? You submit a license number? So you have to get a license then, right?

[duovamp]

I just think you're regulating something on the Internet that you can never feasibly do, due to slippery slopes, costs, effectiveness, and enforceability.

[Eulogy]

That is another horrible analogy. Jesus

[Eulogy]

And I'm not making an argument I'm asking what yours is

And your response is to make piss and bestiality jokes

[Disco King]

I am kind of concerned about the effects of porn. I used to dismiss most criticisms of it as conservative anti-sex alarmism, but radical feminist perspectives on porn are a lot more nuanced than that and don't rely on the same premises at all, despite the fact that they are often conveniently lumped in with them.

There is a lot of disturbing, misogynistic material in porn. The research on the affects of porn on men's attitudes toward women has been mixed and men's levels of aggression have been mixed. Most of what I've read has pointed to little to no effect on sexist attitudes. And the correlations with aggression in experimental settings had more to do with excitation transfer than social learning (i.e., people weren't learning to become more violent, arousal is just a sensation that becomes conflated with other sorts of excitation, so it can increase prior anger). Given that research, I have to disagree with people like Gail Dines, who claim that pornography is producing misogyny and influencing violent crimes.

However, I do think there are a lot of issues surrounding how porn is produced. It seems difficult for one to distinguish trafficked women from consenting women on live erotic webcam websites, for example. Also, the line of "consent" is hard to draw when the people who enter the industry often have few other choices. For many actors, it seems hardly more of a choice than "choosing" to scrub toilets for a living. Except, if you scrub toilets, there isn't a permanent record of that on the internet for everyone to view on demand.

Work conditions also seem poor. Actors are often not briefed on what they will be expected to do before they shoot, and can't really discuss their boundaries. And of course, occupational health and safety is low. Condoms are hardly ever worn, and as a consequence, workers in the industry have pretty high rates of STDs, despite frequent testing.

Some of the content is often off-putting, such as racial caricatures in interracial porn, which often fetishize certain races with demeaning stereotypes, instead of being interracial in a progressive sense. It's like a modern minstrel show. And again, the misogyny in hetero-porn can be astounding. Even in vanilla stuff not marketed as "domination" or "BDSM," you still see lots of choking, demeaning name-calling, etc. And it always seems to be about the woman's sole purpose being pleasing the male, and even pretending to get pleasure solely from the male's pleasure. It's hardly ever egalitarian.

Then, there's what Vixnix mentioned, with men in real life pressuring their partners to try acts they've seen on film when their partner is hesitant, and they have little knowledge on how to perform these acts safely (partly because that's never shown in the films, where it's always spontaneous).

I obviously don't think that porn should be banned. I often have trouble wrapping my head around some anti-porn radfem critiques that say that porn is inherently and necessarily demeaning to women, but then proceed to list reasons why it is contingently demeaning to women. By itself, watching people do the do isn't harmful, I don't think. But if it's produced in a patriarchal society, it will reflect those social inequalities in its production and content.

I think we could look at things like mandating better OHS, and giving actors more intellectual control over their likeness by allowing them to request takedowns of videos they no longer want available. And of course, other reforms would have to be through broader societal efforts to reduce poverty so that no one is forced to take on this sort of job who doesn't truly want to, and reducing sexism and racism in society, which would probably reduce sexism and racism in pornography. Also, increasing sex education so that children's first exposure to sex isn't Big Black Booties 7: The Ravaging. I mean, how can they expect to understand that when they haven't seen Big Black Booties 1-6 in school?.

[Eulogy]

I havent read all that yet but I want to be clear that I agree with your second paragraph

Straight men are terrible badically

[Eulogy]

Skimmed it all and yeah that's how I feel basically. My thought is that bitter misogynists want to see women suffer.

I find that sort of thing so bizarre. I hate it and I'm glad it's not nearly as prevalent in gay porn.

You can find ethically prouduced porn if you try

[Eulogy]

My favorite gay porn trope (or one of them) is when they're being interviewed about what they're going to do (it's not clinical, but it makes it clear they know what they have planned) and then they also interview them after. It's kind of adorable.

I guess they could be theoretically coerced into lying to the cameras but these are not trained actors and they are very convincing.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Skimmed it all and yeah that's how I feel basically. My thought is that bitter misogynists want to see women suffer.

I find that sort of thing so bizarre. I hate it and I'm glad it's not nearly as prevalent in gay porn.

You can find ethically prouduced porn if you try

I don't have much experience with gay porn, but I can see why the dynamics would be totally different.

It just makes me all the more confused when hardliner anti-porn feminists respond with "gay porn is bad too because it just replicates the power dynamics of straight porn" when asked about how their theory of "porn is inherently misogynistic" accounts for gay porn. I mean, ironically, right-wingers with whom anti-porn feminists formed a partnership often used it to target "deviant" forms of material, rather than the material straight white guys like, which obviously is not what the feminists intended.

I do have sympathy for the more sex-critical feminism, because I feel that sort of mainstream liberal feminism isn't really critical of these issues enough, and says everything is okay because it is "a choice," without looking at how choices are constrained by social conditions. Dworkin and MacKinnon have also been unfairly demonized by not only conservatives, but liberal feminists. At the end of the day, I still disagree with them, however.