Bruce Jenner is the Chaz Bono of the boomer generation

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I hope you're not reading my posts as saying gender is a choice or something.

I'm not I just think you could articulate your posts a little better. Because it does kind of sound like that's what you said. I just assume it's not what you meant though.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by reprise85

fuzzy, if you'd like to actually become educated so you can form an educated opinion i would be happy to find and upload full length academic papers about this topic for you.

Look, I'm not dismissing the rare circumstances in which this applicable... It just seems to me that it's became so mainstream and that it's not really something the doctors should be so willingly prescribing. It's a pretty serious hormonal treatment and I'm not so sure that 12 year old kids are really in the best mindset to make that decision.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I watched it a couple years ago... I'm not sure... But the mother with the alcoholic ex-husband actually ended up dating a guy who transitioned from a girl.

If you google that something should come up.

It was broadcast on CNN or one of the other news stations.

What gives you the authority to describe peer reviewed scientific research as iffy?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Look, I'm not dismissing the rare circumstances in which this applicable... It just seems to me that it's became so mainstream and that it's not really something the doctors should be so willingly prescribing. It's a pretty serious hormonal treatment and I'm not so sure that 12 year old kids are really in the best mindset to make that decision.

Stop being ignorant. The research is against you.

[yo soy el mejor]

he doesn't understand is all.

[fuzzyroes]

Ehhh. It's simply a theory Eulogy. Nothing has been proven.

And like I said, there was a real case of some low-life woman mentioning how her husband would always be abusive to the daughter about how he wished she was a boy when the kid was a little girl... The girl goes on to have hormone therapy as a pre-teen...

That's so fucking clear to me that it's a psychological problem brought on by the father... It should have been to the doctors too, but they were more than happy to oblige. I'm quite sure that that sorta shit goes on a lot with doctors and the hormone patients.

[fuzzyroes]

That's all I'm saying. I'm not arguing that there isn't rare cases where it's completely justified. It's just doctors seem to be a little too "willy nilly" when it comes to this shit. But I'm of the opinion that doctors are often pretty fucking clueless and are just happy shelling out the prescriptions in every sense of their practice.

[fuzzyroes]

Like I once had a scare with a certain "ailment" and the doc was like, "yeah I don't think you should worry, but I can prescribe you the medication for it just to be safe"... I swear to god this actually happened.

[reprise85]

can we adopt the phrase stop being ignorant for fuzzy? like shut the fuck up, scotty with scotty?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

That's all I'm saying. I'm not arguing that there isn't rare cases where it's completely justified. It's just doctors seem to be a little too "willy nilly" when it comes to this shit. But I'm of the opinion that doctors are often pretty fucking clueless and are just happy shelling out the prescriptions in every sense of their practice.

you have it backwards. the rare cases are the ones where it may not be justified. so says science. but go with your gut instinct and a TV show instead. i mean you know better, clearly.

[fuzzyroes]

I just think a lot of people take societal norms and superficial gender interests way too fucking literally. It's all meaningless to me. I have friends who are girls who could kick my ass and have the superficial qualities of a male yet are totally comfortable with who they are. I have friends who are guys who are more feminine than most of the girls that I know and even cross dress and stuff yet have no insecurities or problems with their hormones.

[fuzzyroes]

It's like: Be who you wanna be, don't be so concerned with the imaginary constructs of what it means to belong to a gender.

[fuzzyroes]

That would be my advice. That hormone therapy is some super powerful, serious shit. Some people out there don't know what they're getting into or what they're in for.

[reprise85]

you have no idea what you are talking about.

anyway, i'm done. i even offered to get you research papers. you dont want to be informed.

[fuzzyroes]

I read em over. I'm not convinced.

Let me stress: it's a free country and I have nothing against people doing what they desire. I'm just giving my opinion from a political standpoint- Much like TOC did.

[toase]

IT'S A FREE COUNTRY

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I read em over. I'm not convinced.

Nothing would ever convince you because you are ignorant and unthinking.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I read em over. I'm not convinced.

Let me stress: it's a free country and I have nothing against people doing what they desire. I'm just giving my opinion from a political standpoint- Much like TOC did.

oh, you have access to academic journals? or you mean you read the abstract? because that doesn't count. the paper is 21 pages long.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Nothing would ever convince you because you are ignorant and unthinking.

I just believe in the ideology of allowing nature the respect to play out as it has and letting it be and doing all we can to help it thrive. Artificially changing the main driving force of our species through synthetic hormones just doesn't bode well for me on a personal gut intuition.

Our species have evolved over eternities, why start trying to mess around with the basic biological fundamentals of our beings now? Someones sad they're a girl? Well, life isn't easy... what can I tell ya? I wish I looked like Zack Morris but I look like a dopey putz... Gotta roll with the punches...

[Eulogy]

Your personal gut intuition comes from a place of profound ignorance. Can you please acknowledge that

[fuzzyroes]

Search around a little bit online Eulogy. You'll find stories about people who have underwent the hormone therapy who are 2nd guessing themselves because they weren't aware of what a traumatic experience it was going to be. It's a total mental warp that some folks weren't anticipating.

It has nothing to do with ignorance or bigotry or anything.

[Eulogy]

Yes it does.

[hnibos]

This is why we can't have good things.

[MyOneAndOnly]

"it's just a theory"

like evolution and climate change

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I just believe in the ideology of allowing nature the respect to play out as it has and letting it be and doing all we can to help it thrive. Artificially changing the main driving force of our species through synthetic hormones just doesn't bode well for me on a personal gut intuition.

Our species have evolved over eternities, why start trying to mess around with the basic biological fundamentals of our beings now? Someones sad they're a girl? Well, life isn't easy... what can I tell ya? I wish I looked like Zack Morris but I look like a dopey putz... Gotta roll with the punches...

"synthetic hormones" You mean the kind that they prescribe to people when their bodies don't make enough of it for them.

So humanity should apparently also stop treating people with all manner of health and mental afflictions because it doesn't respect nature....?

I can't even fathom what you would propose be done with someone who is born intersex.

The stupidity of bigots never ceases to surprise me.

[MyOneAndOnly]

watching the Jenner interview on ABC....



so far they've been respectful. i was worried they'd treat the interview like a freak show, but they seem to have done the it on her terms.

i can't make myself care about this
awesome thread though
fuzzy roses is a down home folksy hate monger

[MyOneAndOnly]

since I don't see his horrible posts anymore I sometimes forget how terrible he is. then I bumped this thread

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by reprise85

Stop being ignorant. The research is against you.

It's more accurate to say the research isn't against him nor is it for him. Confirmation biases, limited sample sources and the inability to replicate results make neurology a still poorly understood science within individuals much less their relativity to sex. Many factors determine our positionality with regards to sex; brain mapping, hormones, socialized behavior (nature vs nuture), sexual orientation, and body dysmoprhia or lack thereof. I'm not saying fuzzy is right or wrong but it is stupid--actually harmful even--to just reduce it to "girls have pink brains and boys have blue brains" which is what the current media/pop culture narrative on transgender seems to be.

Knee jerk responses to questions on the legitimacy of gender being inherent are not productive, since the question really affects all of us and how society is structured according to sex.

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Search around a little bit online Eulogy. You'll find stories about people who have underwent the hormone therapy who are 2nd guessing themselves because they weren't aware of what a traumatic experience it was going to be. It's a total mental warp that some folks weren't anticipating.

It has nothing to do with ignorance or bigotry or anything.

Probably because those people weren't dysmoprhic in the first place.