I practically woke up one morning this week not depressed or suicidal any more

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

if nothing else, it will help you confirm all of these things you believe about yourself and the world.

hrm. i don't know if i like the sound of that. i don't place a lot of value in introspection. (brains are dumb. prone to taking lots of stupid shortcuts. mine is no better than anyone else's in that regard.)

anyway. brains are machines that are, at least in the case of humans, partly self-aware. they do not appear to have any ability to directly interact with anything except the bodies that house them. so how could using a chemical to reconfigure a brain instruct one about anything other than the operation of itself or its body?

perhaps that's just me being naïve/ignorant given my lack of experience, but – assuming i were to return to my right mind afterwards – i think it's how i'd be forced to interpret any kind of "spiritual" event. i'm really not wired up for space jesus at all

[reprise85]

"spiritual" is a loaded word. i just mean i felt more connected to the world in general, in an overall way, and it felt good. and in the days and weeks following, i found myself making more connections with people, enjoying sunsets, and generally slowing down to smell the roses. nothing to do with god or jesus or anything like that

[noyen]

it makes math fun.

[reprise85]

as for your question - i don't know why it does what it does, no one really does. it messes with serotonin, but not in the same way SSRIs and other antidepressant do. it really is an unknown.

nothing really changes except your perspective. and yes you come down, go back to normal, but some of it stays with you

a lot of people have the "omg i'll be like this forever!" freakout - i did. but i had no idea what i was getting into. just gotta remember you're on a drug, you paid for the opportunity to do this, and however you feel, as long as you are physically safe everything will go back to normal eventually

LSD is the kinda drug, you'll never be like "oh i think maybe i feel something". it is unmistakable - when you trip, you trip. you cannot have any other plans. you may not be able to speak coherently. it will be almost impossible to follow a train of thought to its conclusion in a discussion

my friend mark and his boyfriend, when we all tripped together (maybe 5 times), our ritual was to take it and play uno until we couldnt keep up with the game anymore. took about 45 minutes. you just cant focus on things like that once it hits. you aren't stupid, you just stop thinking linearly

[noyen]

god within.

[Luke de Spa]

so it's like a catalyst for certain modes of thought?

i could draw parallels with certain kinds of ideas. like the TED talk of drugs

[Luke de Spa]

just kidding f TED talks

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

so it's like a catalyst for certain modes of thought?

i could draw parallels with certain kinds of ideas. like the TED talk of drugs

yes, among other things, there is the introspective part where you will think of all the things you normally think of and come up with ideas you never saw because you're thinking is... just not the same. i cant explain.

it might be different, if you don't value introspection, you might not get introspective (though i suspect you would), but you will think about whatever is important to you. for me it was morality, my hypocrisies, my drug abuse, patience, a little of my fucked up relationship eventually. those trips are hard but once you think about it you get elation because you actually did it

[reprise85]

i also did it once with mark in a movie theater. movie was v for vendetta. it was kind of anticlimactic and three hours wasn't enough to even get through the peak so we were peaking like in the parking lot. i much prefer to be in a home where i can move from rooms and go outside if i want, feel comfortable, only talk to people who know i'm high. with other people or without. i could do it in public, but paranoia is higher

i dont recommend drugs for people in general, but i think a lot of people can benefit from LSD. luke, if you get a chance, i hope you consider it.

i will do it again one day. it is a goal of mine. i'm lucky too that my therapist is similar to me and knows the value of LSD as well, and definitely doesn't discourage this line of thought. most people think it's just another drug. LSD is self limiting; if you take it two days in a row you'll get very mild effects the second day. it's not addictive. it doesn't harm your body. it can set off latent mental illness and that is definitely a consideration if you have had depression or are youngish and have a family history of mental illness.

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

"spiritual" is a loaded word. i just mean i felt more connected to the world in general, in an overall way, and it felt good. and in the days and weeks following, i found myself making more connections with people, enjoying sunsets, and generally slowing down to smell the roses. nothing to do with god or jesus or anything like that

life-affirming?

memento mori has that effect on me. has for years, but from now on it's going to be more to the point. i often watch this. great speech

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

it might be different, if you don't value introspection, you might not get introspective (though i suspect you would), but you will think about whatever is important to you. for me it was morality, my hypocrisies, my drug abuse, patience, a little of my fucked up relationship eventually. those trips are hard but once you think about it you get elation because you actually did it

i value introspection for matters pertaining to the self. or one's image of the self. taking a hard, honest look at myself is the only method i know to correct flaws or prevent myself from committing the same mistake twice. that kind of introspection is crucial to living a good life. i just don't think introspection can tell me anything about the operation of the world/universe/extrapersonal. it can tell us where to look, sure. but never what we'll find

jeez that sounds straight outta cheese country. personal pronouns are a pain in the ass btw. "one", "me", "i", what a load of bullshit

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

i often watch this. great speech

or skip to the good bit: http://youtu.be/D1R-jKKp3NA?t=8m55s

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

life-affirming?

memento mori has that effect on me. has for years, but from now on it's going to be more to the point. i often watch this. great speech

good speech, i watched it all. i'm sure it's different for everyone, i can feel peace knowing death is there and that death is not a bad thing, but with LSD the sensation is much stronger, the peace is much stronger. i know i keep saying i can't explain but it really is hard.

[noyen]

the downward spiral

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by reprise85

good speech, i watched it all. i'm sure it's different for everyone, i can feel peace knowing death is there and that death is not a bad thing, but with LSD the sensation is much stronger, the peace is much stronger. i know i keep saying i can't explain but it really is hard.

for me, the awareness of my inevitable death is the same as it was for steve jobs in that speech – an agitator, a contrast generator, a cold hard fact that throws the details of life into relief. i can accept it without question; that's not really the point for me, i guess. what you're describing sounds totally different

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by noyen

the downward spiral

i never managed to get into the ninners

[noyen]

i had a bad trip once that is just summed up with the downward spiral. as a title at least. in my bubble, i experienced everything i could possibly experience in life. i calculated all available options. i went down each path. it was like a big circle leading inwards. you start at one point and you end up at another. a series of endless events. it can be deep shit. so i basically already lived life. i can die at any time and be okay with it because i've already explored and seen all outcomes. it makes life kind of pointless.

[Luke de Spa]

that doesn't sound bad to me. i would love to be able to think that deeply. although i suppose it'd depend on your starting conditions, and how long you spend actually simulating/living through hypothetical bad outcomes

[null123]

the only drug i'm interested in is oxycontin

[null123]

why do you guys want to think about things so bad

[noyen]

Originally Posted by Luke de Spa

that doesn't sound bad to me. i would love to be able to think that deeply. although i suppose it'd depend on your starting conditions, and how long you spend actually simulating/living through hypothetical bad outcomes

it was the most intense thing in my life, so far. but you're right. it was good and bad. it was everything. it's had a profound impact on me, which in the end, was a bad thing. i was on a lot of acid. it lasted 2 days. it was upwards of 15-20 something hits of lsd. it opens up things in your mind. it really is math. you can see math. feel math. but yeah, i took every hypothetical and experienced it, felt it. it was amazing and horrifying because it was like a choose your own adventure and going back and forth and taking each path.

it really is impossible to explain and it really is different every time. set and setting are very important. doing it with someone else is helpful, if not necessary. being left alone can be wild.

it's pretty amazing, as a drug. i got really into terrance mckenna with mushrooms, alien dreamtime shit. it's a very confrontational drug. it destroys the ego. it does things you can't comprehend.

i dunno, all i'm saying is you are a very intelligent fellow and it seems like it would make you even smarter. i would love to do it with you. wink wink.

[noyen]

i kinda wanna die. feeling shit is for the birds.

[null123]

feeling good is cool

[noyen]

feeling nothing is better. feeling good just means you're gonna feel bad at some point. too much to compare good to.

death is the answer.

[null123]

on another note, just because someone dealt with their depression and got it to a point where it isn't destroying their life doesn't mean their depression wasn't as bad as or worse than anyone else's. and I also think the obsession with depression being a "chemical imbalance" makes people overlook the fact that chemical imbalances might be both created and reversed by things besides drugs.

[TuralyonW3]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

the only drug i'm interested in is oxycontin

nice knowing you

[reprise85]

noyen i can appreciate your nihilism (not exactly what you're doing, not sure of a better word to use), and you explained tripping a lot better than i did

but you are here, you dont seem like you will kill yourself, do you get enjoyment out of talking to people, the absurdities of life? (lsd definitely made me see those clearly). i mean in my little apartment i have things made all over the globe, that by chance all ended up here, and function in my home. that is insane, how commerce works. fucking airplanes. smart phones. plumbing, the fucking universe, analyzing dirt on mars, i mean WHAT THE FUCK

[Luke de Spa]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

why do you guys want to think about things so bad

i can't speak for anyone else but i can't remember not wanting to understand everything i encountered. at this point, 'want' might be the wrong word. kicking off the discovery process is pretty much automatic

[null123]

http://www.simplypsychology.org/Hierarchyofneeds.jpg

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

why do you guys want to think about things so bad

i think it's just a personality trait. knowledge is important to me, exchange of ideas is important. i know i'm pretty dumb in the grand scheme of things. the outcome is connection with people to learn and share with each other, our peers that are in the same predicament as we are

i mean we could be anywhere right now, talking to anyone, born to other parents, it's all chancee, but here were are right now with each other, taking the time to type this out. it's special in a way, also sad, how insignificant everything is, but sometimes i feel that that is freeing, and i think that's kind of the answer and sort of what luke was getting to