2016 Obama's America

[Order 66]

if you adjust for inflation, minimum wage in the 60s was about $13 an hour... i mean, i understand the standard arguments against raising it. but that shit is just way too low now. in high COL areas like NYC and DC it shouldn't even be under $15

[Trotskilicious]

i'd like to know where the middle class bump is, then. what about a median wage

it really underscores how much my job is taking advantage of me though

[Starla]

In 1975, my aunt took a job working in a factory that packaged medical supplies. She made $14.95 starting. That place is still open today, and the starting pay is $9.95.

[Bread Regal]

was dinesh d'souza's campaign finance fraud discussed already

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

In 1975, my aunt took a job working in a factory that packaged medical supplies. She made $14.95 starting. That place is still open today, and the starting pay is $9.95.

weren't you just talking about businesses being unable to afford paying people

[Starla]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A131B120140204

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama's healthcare law will reduce American workforce participation by the equivalent of 2 million full-time jobs in 2017, the Congressional Budget Office said on Tuesday, prompting Republicans to paint the law as bad medicine for the U.S. economy.

[Trotskilicious]

yes but who's fault is that? obama's or capitalism?

i'm sure you know what i think

what they're doing is "more with less" they're axing jobs and then requiring their current employees take on the workload

and these stupid motherfuckers just lap it up like OMG MASTER PLEASE GIVE ME MORE WORK TO DO I WANT TO WORK SO HARD AND BE SO SUCCESSFUL, I don't mind that you got college educated labor that you give the responsibilities of someone making 50,000 a year i just want to make sure i get promoted to that next step up and the 46 cent raise...it's just how things work best what do you want to live in germany lol

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Starla

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A131B120140204

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama's healthcare law will reduce American workforce participation by the equivalent of 2 million full-time jobs in 2017, the Congressional Budget Office said on Tuesday, prompting Republicans to paint the law as bad medicine for the U.S. economy.

do you know why that is? because people are no longer beholden to their employers for their health coverage. when people leave their shitty jobs, they havemore time to innovate. they are given extra time and money to build capital, develop ideas, go to school and participate in activities that are more altruistic than pushing paper for some fat cat.

the job i worked at until 2 years ago provided an incredible health plan. when i stayed in the hospital for 10 days in 2011, i paid a total of 75 dollars for my ER bill and i received short term disability pay for the time that i missed work. the premium was 27 dollars for both me and my wife.

when i finally did quit to go to school full time, i was terrified.our new plan was 400 bucks a month, it had a 10,000 dollar deductable and 50% coinsurance thereafter, and no out of pocket maximim. my wife's pre-existing conditions (cancer remission, herniated disc and the chronic pain related to both of them) were not covered. i have had 3 ER visits since then (including emergeny inpatient surgery for a huge kidney stone) and I owe the hospitals thousands of dollars that i simply do not have. all that time i was really doubting my decision to leave that horrible fucking job.

our new insurance cards came in the mail today and i literally broke down and cried. my wife can get the surgery she needs for her endometriosis. she can get her mammograms. i can get my routine bloodwork and prostate exams. our preexisting conditions and family histories no longer preclude us from coverage. we don't have to deal with gaps in our medication regimens.

you really want to know why people are leaving their jobs? because their jobs suck and coverage gaps will screw them over (COBRA is such a crock of shit by the way). There are other opportunities out there that, if pursued by individuals, will benefit society as a whole. There are more people who are no longer beholden to the people that control them because of the fear of dying of a preventable illness.

[Trotskilicious]

seriously the jobs right now are such horrible shit, the $13 minimum wage debate really throws that in relief because some of these fucking office spaces that do nothing discernably important act like they're offering competitive wages by offering college graduates $13 an hour to start instead of $12.50

yeah thanks guys, so generous of you

so much labor in this country is so vastly underpaid and when you complain about it you have a "bad attitude" and the only way to get a raise is to take on even more work not different, not more challenging or catering to your experience, just more fucking work to the point where you're working 60+ hours a week for middle class earnings. And everyone seems to act like This is The Way It Should Be, because they've been raised on reaganized randic theory to the point of being half-retarded about what they can do, what it's worth, and what kind of actual value they really have. I have routinely watched people volunteer to do things for the company free of charge, work 70 hours a week because the company didn't bother to hire anyone else, and they get promoted. What's their reward? Oh, a dollar or two an hour, more work with less help. AND THEY LOVE IT.

But you insult the work ethic of someone who busts ass for you 40 a week and goes home. Got it.

[Bread Regal]

and really, only certain factions of programmers.

[Bread Regal]

if you work in the video game industry as a programmer, you are so thoroughly exploited it's not even funny.

[Trotskilicious]

i took that back lawyers and other high education fields have lots of leverage, so do doctors

i don't have any because i'll work overtime to get something done but when i'm expected to work overtime because of bad management well sir of course i have a "bad attitude" you people aren't even fit to manage a banana stand

[Trotskilicious]

but you know what the randian refrian will always be "sounds like it's your fault"

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

do you know why that is? because people are no longer beholden to their employers for their health coverage. when people leave their shitty jobs, they havemore time to innovate. they are given extra time and money to build capital, develop ideas, go to school and participate in activities that are more altruistic than pushing paper for some fat cat.

the job i worked at until 2 years ago provided an incredible health plan. when i stayed in the hospital for 10 days in 2011, i paid a total of 75 dollars for my ER bill and i received short term disability pay for the time that i missed work. the premium was 27 dollars for both me and my wife.

when i finally did quit to go to school full time, i was terrified.our new plan was 400 bucks a month, it had a 10,000 dollar deductable and 50% coinsurance thereafter, and no out of pocket maximim. my wife's pre-existing conditions (cancer remission, herniated disc and the chronic pain related to both of them) were not covered. i have had 3 ER visits since then (including emergeny inpatient surgery for a huge kidney stone) and I owe the hospitals thousands of dollars that i simply do not have. all that time i was really doubting my decision to leave that horrible fucking job.

our new insurance cards came in the mail today and i literally broke down and cried. my wife can get the surgery she needs for her endometriosis. she can get her mammograms. i can get my routine bloodwork and prostate exams. our preexisting conditions and family histories no longer preclude us from coverage. we don't have to deal with gaps in our medication regimens.

you really want to know why people are leaving their jobs? because their jobs suck and coverage gaps will screw them over (COBRA is such a crock of shit by the way). There are other opportunities out there that, if pursued by individuals, will benefit society as a whole. There are more people who are no longer beholden to the people that control them because of the fear of dying of a preventable illness.

I'm glad that you and your wife will get the care you need. I know what it's like to go without health care. I have health care now, provided by the tribe, which is funded by the federal govt., but I still have to provide for a lot of out of pocket costs to treat my ms. It doesn't cover everything. Obama care is basically like IHS (Indian health services). You will get some basics, but you won't get everything.

I already know how COBRA works, they cut my sister off mid treatment for breast cancer. I don't see the ACA covering complete cancer care. I'll retract that if and when I see it. I've already gone over how the ACA is essentially going to be like IHS, and how do I know this? I've been on it for years, and when we had to take a couple of classes about how the ACA is going to work for non enrolled tribal members (they still have to pay or get penalized), I found out all of the similarities. After growing up on IHS and seeing how it functions, I don't see how it's going to be any better for many people. This is why I've never been for it, and I don't subscribe to the belief that something is better than nothing when it comes to health care. But a lot of people have to live that way, even I have.

I have not seen a lot of people willingly quit their jobs over the ACA, at least not here. I've seen and heard about a lot of people getting their hours and wages cut back or people being let go. I'm basing my information from people I work with, speak with, and the place I volunteer at each week.

[Starla]

The thing that is not being addressed are all of the people who did like their health insurance plans, and lost them when Obama promised multiple times that they would not lose those plans or their doctors. A lot of people are going to be in a position where they cannot afford a plan, do not qualify for medicaid or subsidies. Those are the people who are going to be without care. Not everyone will be able to afford to pay for a plan. If I didn't have the coverage that I have now, I wouldn't be able to afford it every month.

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Starla

The thing that is not being addressed are all of the people who did like their health insurance plans, and lost them when Obama promised multiple times that they would not lose those plans or their doctors. A lot of people are going to be in a position where they cannot afford a plan, do not qualify for medicaid or subsidies. Those are the people who are going to be without care. Not everyone will be able to afford to pay for a plan. If I didn't have the coverage that I have now, I wouldn't be able to afford it every month.

the medicaid expansion thing is not obama's fault.

[Bread Regal]

i mean seriously, if you have read about this issue for longer than 5 minutes, you should know that.

[Bread Regal]

and also, the plans that are offered, as a rule, offer more than any other plan you had before.

and also, those living between 100 and 400 per cent of the poverty level (between ~$22k and ~$95k for a family of four) get subsidies. people making more than a hundred grand a year can afford to eek out a little more for an insurance premium. furthermore most people making 100k or more a year aren't doing so through hard labor; they're doing it on the backs of the proletariat. So for them to whinge about their premiums going up 25% when it enables the poor to actually...not die of cancer, is really fucking audacious.

[Bread Regal]

ALSO

this year's premiums have increased at a slowerreate than they have during the past two decades. people who complain about their premiums going up seem to have the attention span of a mayfly.

[Bread Regal]

your earnestness is admirable here, starla, but you need to read more on this.

[Starla]

So we are to assume that Obama didn't know that the insurance companies wouldn't cancel millions of plans and cause people to lose their doctors, when he made those promises? A lot of people who have lost their insurance plans, are saying they cannot afford the cost of a plan through the market place.

And again, what about the people who cannot afford a plan, do not qualify for subsidies or medicaid?

They will go without. I've already been over this one a million times, including the quality of care.

Our two local hospitals reported a jump in emergency visits by uninsured people for the months of Dec and Jan.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

your earnestness is admirable here, starla, but you need to read more on this.

I think you should take a few hours and read over on healthcare.gov facebook page, and read a lot of the accounts of people who are struggling with this. It's pretty eye opening. Everything I'm addressing is based on the situations I see here, personally.

[Bread Regal]

the reason the medicaid expansion didn't happen is not because of the PPACA, but because of republican state legislatures who would rather the program fail than actually help sick people.

and if we're going to do before and after comparisons, the people falling within the coverage gap weren't getting coverage last year so that's not really a suitable argument in favor of the status quo.

[Bread Regal]

yes, you're right i should read the hysterical ramblings of facebook users

[Bread Regal]

like, you just ignored everything i said. would you prefer that all the benefits i listed about the PPACA be done away with?

[Starla]

Don't get me started on how the ACA has caused our local hospital in my town to no longer provide charity care. Without that, a lot of people are going to suffer too. I see the people who fall through the cracks. Without going into detail a woman in a domestic violence situation needing extended care was discharged due to not having insurance. She lost her insurance because it was cancelled.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

yes, you're right i should read the hysterical ramblings of facebook users

A lot of the discussions, are not hysterical ramblings, which is why I suggested it. I guess it's easier to follow things that suggest this is going to be a great thing for everyone?

I really have no more to say since I've debated this to death over in the other forum. I don't support it and haven't changed my mind based on what I see here and not just what I read online.

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Starla

the ACA has caused our local hospital in my town to no longer provide charity care

that's a news story i'm actually interested in reading.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

the reason the medicaid expansion didn't happen is not because of the PPACA, but because of republican state legislatures who would rather the program fail than actually help sick people.

and if we're going to do before and after comparisons, the people falling within the coverage gap weren't getting coverage last year so that's not really a suitable argument in favor of the status quo.

The status quo sucks, and I think it's time to stop blaming republicans for everything, not that I'm one of them.

[Bread Regal]

so even is this is a marginal improvement compared to the status quo, whats the big fucking deal