Dear Obama Supporters Who Claim to also be "Left-wing": Please Justify Yourselves

[duovamp]

Also any politician who believes evolution should not be in biology textbooks.

[TuralyonW3]

Zzzzzzzzzz

[john's ego]

Yeah definitely not a right wing nutjob.

Authoritarian corporatist.

But not a right wing nutjob.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

I made this thread in part because I haven't lived in the US for such a long time and was shocked/appalled to see a bunch of Obama 2012 yard signs and bumperstickers when I visited this spring. I just wanted to know if people were really that stupid. I knew that the vast majority of republicans were willing to follow whoever made the loudest noise against godless socialists, but I would have thought that the eight year memory of Bush's policies, which Obama has effectively followed or expanded, would be fresh enough to cause actual left-wingers to go somewhere else. Maybe this merely confirms my suspicion that there really is almost no discernable left-wing in the US.

You've been away from the US media as well who only question Obama on things like gay rights while tapping, gitmo, troops, et al are largely ignored. The media benefits from the red v blue myth.

[Trotskilicious]

i like how it's red state v blue state when in actuality it's red county vs blue county

so much easier for them to stereotype all texans as X

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

your premise is bogus. You're stereotyping half of the electorate.

Many democrats agree with all or much of Obama's foreign policy. Most progressives and liberals are not single issue voters. They won't jump to another candidate on one or two issues.

So then "most democrats" probably aren't as "left-wing" as they think they are.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

so much easier for them to stereotype all texans as X

British people have some funny things to say about Texas.

[Trotskilicious]

i think the divisive talk of red and blue states deliberately misconstrues the fact that most major cities are politically similar.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

British people have some funny things to say about Texas.

i bet we have horses and live in the desert

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

So then "most democrats" probably aren't as "left-wing" as they think they are.

Unlike conservatives, Democrats don't self identify under one narrow political ideology. many democrats aren't liberals. Many democrats aren't even Progressives. Some of them are actually conservative (but not many these days). And some, like Obama, are hawks on foreign policy and moderates on social policy.

look at what happens when Democrats run congress. it's like herding cats just to get them to pass a bill. There's a contingency of conservatives that break to vote with republicans on social issues, and there are a lot of "moderates" who vote with republicans on issues of economy and finance. The real "Liberal" wing of the Democratic party has very little power in Washington

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

i think the divisive talk of red and blue states deliberately misconstrues the fact that most major cities are politically similar.

That's generally true. I live in one of the most right wing areas of the USA. But when you look at just the precincts that comprise the city they're 75% Democratic in virtually every election. Not unlike Milwaukee or Detroit, though, it's the suburbs which fuck shit up and vote conservative..

[sppunk]

Conservatives don't fall under one narrow political ideology either, buddy.

The liberal Democratic party in DC might have two true liberals. Maybe.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Conservatives don't fall under one narrow political ideology either, buddy.

The liberal Democratic party in DC might have two true liberals. Maybe.

you know what I'm talking about.

Virtually all republicans self identify as "Conservatives". When asked they'll all puke up the same few bullet points to describe their political ideology. IE. smaller government, lower taxes, fiscal responsibility, etc. etc. A Teabagger will say the exact same thing to describe their general political beliefs as someone like Mitt Romney.

You don't get that with Democrats. They don't self identify with such a consistent political ideology.

[Trotskilicious]

which is why they are abject failures and get bullied by a minority

[Trotskilicious]

a minority party, that is hahahahahahahahaha

[sppunk]

Last I checked Dems hung on gun control, pro-choice and universal healthcare. That's no different than what you're saying.

You've bought into the BS two-party stigma.

[Trotskilicious]

have you heard of blue dog democrats or do you just like to play dumb

[sppunk]

Right. I'm saying both parties have all sorts of different sects despite overarching main platforms.

[Trotskilicious]

yeah but the GOP is anchored in a discernible base philosophy and modified by extremism while the democrats reach for the mushy, mediocre center from the center.

i dunno man, i just thing the dems are an absolute mess philosophically and that's because while the right can go "Rand is awesome" even if it's not part of the moderate platform, it influences the party for sure. however, the rational counter response would be Socialism but that's such a dirty, scary word to America that the Dems have to deny it all the time. Essentially I see it to be a tug of war between Libertarian, free market principles and socialism on the other side. The flag in the center may not move too far outside, but there's definitely a political shift, and right now the libertarian/free market/rand people are winning by leagues. To the point that some of the idiots pulling are actually christian extremists that would be more in favor of a totalitarian fundamentalist christian state than free market economics, but for some reason the GOP really motivates these people to show out for them.

The only exception to the socialist scare is Ol' Bernie Sanders but he's special and awesome. Also not a Democrat, officially.

[duovamp]

Goddamn communist czar-appointing Ronald Reagan taking away my right to burn flags.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

yeah but the GOP is anchored in a discernible base philosophy and modified by extremism while the democrats reach for the mushy, mediocre center from the center.

-with a few crunchy socialists on top of the mushy center, surrounded by rich milky women who just want equal pay and the right to specific medical procedures.

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

yeah but the GOP is anchored in a discernible base philosophy and modified by extremism while the democrats reach for the mushy, mediocre center from the center.

i dunno man, i just thing the dems are an absolute mess philosophically and that's because while the right can go "Rand is awesome" even if it's not part of the moderate platform, it influences the party for sure. however, the rational counter response would be Socialism but that's such a dirty, scary word to America that the Dems have to deny it all the time. Essentially I see it to be a tug of war between Libertarian, free market principles and socialism on the other side. The flag in the center may not move too far outside, but there's definitely a political shift, and right now the libertarian/free market/rand people are winning by leagues. To the point that some of the idiots pulling are actually christian extremists that would be more in favor of a totalitarian fundamentalist christian state than free market economics, but for some reason the GOP really motivates these people to show out for them.

The only exception to the socialist scare is Ol' Bernie Sanders but he's special and awesome. Also not a Democrat, officially.

The religious right totally fucked the GOP. A party that was actually fairly moderate in the mid to even late 1990s got caught up in this movement and splintered themselves so badly this new "Tea Party" backlash was cemented in to occur.

The Dems are to me kind of the same, they aren't socially progressive whatsover as a whole and Obama's a fucking joke of a "liberal."

What'd be best if a few moderate Republicans stood up and took control (Romney's probably that guy, but he won't win the election so it won't happen yet) of the party. Then the actual libertarian movement can suction off to join a legit third party and grab a sect of the Democratic party that doesn't fit in to the current sham.

But the money isn't in that to happen, so it won't.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Last I checked Dems hung on gun control, pro-choice and universal healthcare. That's no different than what you're saying.

You've bought into the BS two-party stigma.

what am I buying into?

we do have a 2 party system. That's reality.

I think it's bogus to argue that just because someone registers as a Democrat or votes for Obama that they're blind to the shortcomings of our political system. I'm completely aware of it's shortcomings. In fact, it's overwhelmingly been Progressives who've been critical of the trainwreck of a political system we have right now.

[duovamp]

I mean people bitched for years that Clinton was the best republican president the US ever had. Doesn't matter how you want to label it, those calling themselves republicans have historically been more awful than the other guys at their jobs of making things better for Americans.

[duovamp]

-Unless you're rich as fuck (maybe).

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by sppunk

The religious right totally fucked the GOP. A party that was actually fairly moderate in the mid to even late 1990s got caught up in this movement and splintered themselves so badly this new "Tea Party" backlash was cemented in to occur.

It's not the bible thumpers who've fucked the GOP. It's Wall Street and the right wing ideology of the super rich. It's people like Norquist (and his no taxes pledge), the Koch bros., the DeVos family, etc. who have fucked up the GOP. They're the ones that took it from a party that expoused responsible, effective government to a party that preaches that government is inherently evil and should never be trusted.

[Trotskilicious]

that's such terrible analysis

[MyOneAndOnly]

where the fuck is Eulogy?

[duovamp]

Fucking his boyfriend like the rest of us, bro.

[Trotskilicious]

no seriously i'm worried about the rise in relentless, unprovoked esty attacks and a decline in his presence around the board