Message to MonteLDS

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Yeah, even putting aside the fact that I'm religious - and a Mormon - Bill Maher is just ridiculous.

I find it funny that he makes fun of folks that are extremes in their respective fields of thought (while I'm not a republican nor am I a Fox News watcher, ever) such as Glenn Beck. Really, Glenn Beck is to Conservatives as Bill Maher is to Atheism. Extreme, over the top windbags.

Re: Jesus being from Missouri - that's not Mormon doctrine. Sorry, Bill. Their point of our faith being America centric, there's something to that - but c'mon, man - all Christians (even Mormons) believe that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

and re-born in missouri? or just that the garden of eden was in missouri? i'm asking out of curiosity because all i've ever gotten are vague statements about the americanization of the whole thing. why is it that mormons are always so skittish with regard to talking about what they actually believe?

joseph smith was a con artist.

bill maher is usually pretty good when he's not talking about vaccines.

[Kahlo]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

and re-born in missouri? why is it that mormons are always so skittish with regard to talking about what they actually believe?

There doesn't seem to be much agreement in belief either. I remember attending a mormon service (sadly one of my friends joined them due to family pressure and I thought I'd go along to one to get first hand experience) and he talked from the pulpit/lectern about the planet he would be given after death to share with his wife.

Having just read the Mormon Voice website they refute the apparent misconception that mormons become 'gods of their own worlds' : http://mormonvoices.org/776/planets

Either way its batshit crazy.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Kahlo

do you have proof of this?

Not off hand. Perhaps I'll browse through Youtube when I have a little more time... Most of its humorous American commentary and that sorta thing.

[fuzzyroes]

Heres a funny little clip from one of his HBO specials a few years back

[rottenugly]

fuzzyhoes.

[fuzzyroes]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaa dogggggg... Shit is there anyway to change your user name in this place? I made this one years ago and its just lame having your last name posted on a message board...

Anyhow back to Bill Maher...

The guy also had a hugely successful late night show on ABC and got fired for making these comments after 9/11



Gotta love a guy who tells it as it is

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Anyhow back to Bill Maher...

The guy also had a hugely successful late night show on ABC and got fired for making these comments after 9/11

Gotta love a guy who tells it as it is

In later years Maher wouldn't discuss the hard questions regarding 9/11. I guess he doesn't want to get fired again.

By the way...here's a great new documentary:

[teh b0lly!!1]

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

dude solid html skillz

[Ball Sack Face]

bill mahr isn't funny

[reprise85]

he is often funny, especially the monologue and new rules

[Cool As Ice Cream]

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

why is it that mormons are always so skittish with regard to talking about what they actually believe?

that's the case with any cult that is trying to become "mainstream". They don't want the public to see them as weird. They want to be seen as just like everybody else. So they minimize or avoid public displays or discussions of the things that would most offend American Christians.

Scientology is the same way. They want to be taken seriously as a respectable religious institution, but they don't want to discuss aliens from outer space because they'll be seen as freaks.

[fuzzyroes]

If you devote your life to a religion you should at least be proud and and stand behind it 100 percent... But denial and the fear of god that religious types have is just too strong a force for them... Its those emotions that make sure they never deeply contemplate what it is they're actually worshiping.... Which is a bummer.

Its one thing to be spiritual and be open to the idea of there being some sort of greater force that we dont understand but just blindly following allegories is ridiculous anyway you crack it.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

and re-born in missouri? or just that the garden of eden was in missouri? i'm asking out of curiosity because all i've ever gotten are vague statements about the americanization of the whole thing. why is it that mormons are always so skittish with regard to talking about what they actually believe?

joseph smith was a con artist.

bill maher is usually pretty good when he's not talking about vaccines.

I'm cool with laying the cards on the table - I think a lot of Mormon folks are hesitant to talk about what they believe because they don't think they know it well enough to speak to it in any sort of public setting. I'm no LDS scholar, but I did the whole 2 year mission deal... and in 2 years, you can learn a lot about your faith. I'm pretty comfortable in my skin - and have been a Netphoria resident for like 10+ years, so at some level, I feel like I'm the non-Monte Mormon guy around here who can speak to stuff.

Re: Missouri - nah, no re-born Jesus in Missouri or anything like that. You're right in the second statement, though - we believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri.

Re: Joseph Smith as con artist - We believe that Joseph Smith had a lot of run-ins with heavenly beings, angels and the like. He recorded that in one of the first encounters, an angel told him that his name would be "had for good and evil" worldwide... I clearly fall into the former group. I think Joseph was a cool guy, and a prophet - but I don't approach worshiping him. Dude had faults. But, clearly I don't think he was a con artist.

Re: Vaccines - I'm a public health guy by trade, and anti-vaccine-ites blow my mind. Another strike against Maher.

There's not a lot of Americanization of Biblical doctrine in our faith. My previous comment about our faith being kind of American-centric is one that I typically hear in the media - there really hasn't been any other world-wide successful church to come out of America. And while we believe our church is the extension of Christ's church in this day and age, it started up again here in the 1800's, in a place where religious persecution wouldn't get in the way of getting it up and running again.

The Missouri thing is a bit random and out there, but who's to say where this random Garden was? That's not to say that the rest of the bible occurred here (if you're following it chronologically, the flood around Noah's time really threw a monkey wrench in the whole thing).

Happy to answer more questions. By nature of the fact that I'm Mormon, I fully realize that instantly makes me weird. But I pride myself in being one of the most normal/sensible/thick-skinned Mormons I've ever met. I'm proud and do stand behind it 100% - hell, if posting in a thread like this on Netphoria and openly admitting I'm a Mormon isn't proof of that, I dunno what is.

[Ball Sack Face]

do you drink coffee?

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by Ball Sack Face

do you drink coffee?

Nope. Not something I have a hard time with, really - I just don't enjoy the taste. Smells good, though.

[Kahlo]

do you think that the American angle of Mormonism is a bit peculiar... as if Americans wanted their own homegrown religion to invest meaning into their surroundings?

I can't see the Mormon faith in any other way. It's a sort of failed mixture of patriotism and 19th century attitudes.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

The Missouri thing is a bit random and out there, but who's to say where this random Garden was? That's not to say that the rest of the bible occurred here (if you're following it chronologically, the flood around Noah's time really threw a monkey wrench in the whole thing).

so you believe all those things in the bible actually happened? do you believe it contains god's word?

[reprise85]

it's so hard to wrap my head around literal interpretation of the bible

i mean, really?

[Cool As Ice Cream]

that's also one of my biggest issues with some religions/certain religious people.
i don't get it.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by Kahlo

do you think that the American angle of Mormonism is a bit peculiar... as if Americans wanted their own homegrown religion to invest meaning into their surroundings?

Nah, I don't really see it as peculiar. The same really could be said for any faith that isn't thousands of years old. ie: the protestants. Their origins and the historical/locational context of the start of their faith are inseparably connected, too.

Like I said before - the official church stance is one that I really believe and can subscribe to. If there's going to be anywhere in the world in 1820 where (as we believe) God can appear to a teenage boy and tell him that all of the world's religions are wrong and that he's gonna be instrumental in rebooting Christ's church could happen, it'd be America.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

so you believe all those things in the bible actually happened? do you believe it contains god's word?

Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God. But, simultaneously, we concede that there are lots of translation mistakes and omitted portions that have occurred over the thousands of years that it's been around. It used to be on huge scrolls - and as those got passed around and re-copied by hand, it's logical that there's going to be some mistakes and stuff left out, either by accident or intentionally.

As far my personal relationship with the Bible - there are major 'huh?!' parts in there - but at the same time, there are also the books that contain the daily goings-ons of Christ while he was alive, which is invaluable. I'm far from being a biblical scholar, though.

[Kahlo]

Thanks for answering my question.

Do you think it is ethical for Mormons to go through family tress and retrospectively convert dead relatives?

[MyOneAndOnly]

I don't care how old a religion is. Reality is about 13 billion years older. I'll go with reality.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by Kahlo

Thanks for answering my question.

Do you think it is ethical for Mormons to go through family tress and retrospectively convert dead relatives?

No sweat. Like I said before, I think lots of Mormons are just nervous answering questions.

The whole baptism for the dead by proxy thing nowadays seems like a really "out there" doctrine, even though it's mentioned in the bible and was done in New Testament days. It's gotten a lot of press lately with the concerns brought up by Jewish - understandably so.

I think a lot can be seen in how the LDS Church chose to deal with it: that when the concerns were raised years ago they said essentially "Sorry about that - we'll prevent it from happening again." The problem was - it's hard to keep tabs on millions of people around the world, some of which are just trying to do what they think is appropriate for their ancestors.

The fundamental doctrine behind it is one that is often misunderstood. When a person is baptized on behalf of another person, we don't think it automatically converts them - it just gives that person the ability to accept that ordinance performed for them in the afterlife. It's not a "HEY! YOU'RE A MORMON NOW!" operation... it's a way for those departed folks to have the opportunity to accept it if they want to.

For me, it's one of those things where if I was of another faith and if I knew Mormons were going to do an ordinance that involved a relative of mine, I'd like to think that I wouldn't be bothered by it. If I was firm in my religion (or in my belief that there is no God for that matter) then what those crazy Mormons were up to won't matter in the end anyways, right?

[reprise85]

i would feel fairly insulted if someone tried to posthumously baptize someone in my family.

surely i wouldn't let you baptize me here and now. why should that change when i am dead? it's disrespectful of my belief or lack there of. that doesn't end just because someone is dead. imo

and as an aside argument, why on earth would God require a posthumous baptism in the first place? but that's a whole different thing anyway

[Trotskilicious]

what does this have to do with sp

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Gotta love a guy who tells it as it is

orly

[Kahlo]

how religion ruins families and the music you love?

It's fairly tangential I guess.

[Trotskilicious]

occupy ball street mothafuckaz