Judge to a bunch of assholes on California: Suck it.

[Nimrod's Son]

Not a surprise that Judge Lightloafers overturned the will of the people completely

[duovamp]

Again, tyranny of the people.

[Trotskilicious]

continuing to tote the will of the people as if it's some holy sacrament is outrageously short sighted and myopic

slavery was cool once
removing the jews was totally awesome for most of europe (the real revisionists want to make sure that the French State, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, etc are not even mentioned in connection with the holocaust; but they're dragging them away too, with gusto)
war in afghanistan was an extremely popular idea once
iraq was popular but controversial
i mean god should i go on? we could go to communist russia, where it wasn't a small cadre that overthrew government it was a popular revolt led by a small cadre. Peace, land, and bread! THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE
will of the people will of the people blah blah blah eventually you have to actually use reason instead of emotion and ignorance

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

Not a surprise that Judge Lightloafers overturned the will of the people completely

sigh

[EyesOfAJackal]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

continuing to tote the will of the people as if it's some holy sacrament is outrageously short sighted and myopic

slavery was cool once
removing the jews was totally awesome for most of europe (the real revisionists want to make sure that the French State, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, etc are not even mentioned in connection with the holocaust; but they're dragging them away too, with gusto)
war in afghanistan was an extremely popular idea once
iraq was popular but controversial
i mean god should i go on? we could go to communist russia, where it wasn't a small cadre that overthrew government it was a popular revolt led by a small cadre. Peace, land, and bread! THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE
will of the people will of the people blah blah blah eventually you have to actually use reason instead of emotion and ignorance

While that is definitely a good point, there are even more examples of individuals in tyrannical governments gone wild one could cite

Also, we all know if Californians voted for tighter automatic weapons restrictions after some Columbine round 2 and an NRA-member AK-47-owning judge overturned it, the democrats would be using the same argumentation and deification of the People's Will. Both parties just seem to use anything that they can to boost their point anymore, hypocritical, valid, or not

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by EyesOfAJackal

Also, we all know if Californians voted for tighter automatic weapons restrictions after some Columbine round 2 and an NRA-member AK-47-owning judge overturned it, the democrats would be using the same argumentation and deification of the People's Will. Both parties just seem to use anything that they can to boost their point anymore, hypocritical, valid, or not

This is absolutely untrue.

[Eulogy]

Most liberals recognize the importance and authority of one of our three branches of government.

[EyesOfAJackal]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Most liberals recognize the importance and authority of one of our three branches of government.

Yeah, and so do a lot of republicans. It's not like all republicans are trumpeting the People's Will right now, but some are... and if the situation were flipped, I'd bet cold hard cash some dem would show up on MSNBC doing the reverse.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by EyesOfAJackal

Yeah, and so do a lot of republicans. It's not like all republicans are trumpeting the People's Will right now, but some are... and if the situation were flipped, I'd bet cold hard cash some dem would show up on MSNBC doing the reverse.

I don't think you can just say that and have it be true. But even if we accept that it is true, then that just means that there are stupid people on both sides. Which I think can already be accepted as fact. But right now, with the issue at hand, it's imbeciles like nimrod that we're talking about.

[EyesOfAJackal]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

I don't think you can just say that and have it be true. But even if we accept that it is true, then that just means that there are stupid people on both sides. Which I think can already be accepted as fact. But right now, with the issue at hand, it's imbeciles like nimrod that we're talking about.

Look, I wasn't making that outrageous a statement I don't think. There are people on both sides who will say whatever could possibly support them on the issue at hand, even if they would dismiss that form of argumentation in another context.

Just the other night I saw a dem on MSNBC calling out a republican's suggestion about reforming immigration law so that illegals couldn't just drop a kid here and call it a citizen as "un-Christian". And while you could argue that he was trying to call the GOP hypocritical (which he did not make explicit in any way), you know that there are masses of democrats that would bristle at that kind of overt religiosity in politics. I'm not trying to over-generalize, I'm just saying that that use of silly argumentation occurs no matter what the issue is and which side is arguing for it, it just comes with the territory of current American politics

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by EyesOfAJackal

I'm just saying that that use of silly argumentation occurs no matter what the issue is and which side is arguing for it, it just comes with the territory of current American politics

....and that means it can't be pointed out when it happens?

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by EyesOfAJackal

While that is definitely a good point, there are even more examples of individuals in tyrannical governments gone wild one could cite

obviously

how does that refute what i said. those individuals often rode on enormous popular support or latched onto those who did

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by EyesOfAJackal

Also, we all know if Californians voted for tighter automatic weapons restrictions after some Columbine round 2 and an NRA-member AK-47-owning judge overturned it, the democrats would be using the same argumentation and deification of the People's Will. Both parties just seem to use anything that they can to boost their point anymore, hypocritical, valid, or not

yes but that didn't actually happen at all so you have done absolutely nothing to support your point

[Trotskilicious]

also everyone stop capitalizing the people's will that's an actual russian terrorist cell that assassinated alexander II

[duovamp]

Do we live in a republic or a democracy?

Oh, right, whoops.

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

so all the gays need to marry there real quick before the SCOTUS reverses it.

it is very likely not even the appeals court will hear this case. the defendants in the prop 8 (state of CA) overruling have no interest in reinstating prop 8. schwarzenegger and jerry brown applauded the decision and have no intention of appealing. the prop 8 campaign is on its own and they have to prove injury occurred in order to take it to appeals. of course, this can't be proven. only ideological injury which the appeals courts are reluctant to take up.

[Mayfuck]

i'm pretty sure that by now anyone who makes the 'will of the people' argument is just trolling. internet or real life.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by duovamp

Do we live in a republic or a democracy?

Oh, right, whoops.

no we fiddled with that to the point where the electoral college is a frustrating monkey wrench between a full on general election and the president.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

schwarzenegger applauded the decision and have no intention of appealing.

that goddamn hollyweird liberal

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

i'm pretty sure that by now anyone who makes the 'will of the people' argument is just trolling. internet or real life.

everyone is trolling

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

continuing to tote the will of the people as if it's some holy sacrament is outrageously short sighted and myopic

slavery was cool once
removing the jews was totally awesome for most of europe (the real revisionists want to make sure that the French State, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, etc are not even mentioned in connection with the holocaust; but they're dragging them away too, with gusto)
war in afghanistan was an extremely popular idea once
iraq was popular but controversial
i mean god should i go on? we could go to communist russia, where it wasn't a small cadre that overthrew government it was a popular revolt led by a small cadre. Peace, land, and bread! THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE
will of the people will of the people blah blah blah eventually you have to actually use reason instead of emotion and ignorance

The tyranny of the majority.

[Trotskilicious]

toqueville said it was the flaw from the fucking start!!! THOSE GODDAMN TERRORIST LOVING FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

everyone is trolling

Trolls gonna troll.

[bloop]

Ahnold and co. have no interest in appealing, and the defendant-intervenors probably have no standing to appeal.

IDK what I think about that. On the surface, I like it, and it's sort of funny. On the other hand, if it never gets to the Supreme Court, then equal rights will never apply to all states. On the other hand, I don't know that I yet trust the Supreme Court on this issue.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by bloop

I don't know that I yet trust the Supreme Court on this issue.

wut

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by duovamp

wut

it's a conservative court. stupidly so.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

it is very likely not even the appeals court will hear this case. the defendants in the prop 8 (state of CA) overruling have no interest in reinstating prop 8. schwarzenegger and jerry brown applauded the decision and have no intention of appealing. the prop 8 campaign is on its own and they have to prove injury occurred in order to take it to appeals. of course, this can't be proven. only ideological injury which the appeals courts are reluctant to take up.

I think people are getting a bit too excited about this. I won't be surprised if the prop 8 people end up getting to an appeal.

[bloop]

In other words, I think the correct decision would be to uphold Judge Walker's decision, but I'm not sure that the SCOTUS would do that. I think you could put your life savings on the conservative wing not doing the right thing, and the liberal wing siding with equality.

Therefore, it would be very much up to Justice Kennedy, and I'm a little shaky about trusting him to make the right decision. I think he might, but I'm not really sure.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

I think people are getting a bit too excited about this. I won't be surprised if the prop 8 people end up getting to an appeal.

I tend to agree. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the liberal 9th Circuit judges take well into account that ruling that the Prop 8 supporters have no standing to appeal effectively limits the effect of this decision to California only. I'm sure they have their eyes on the big picture just as much as Judge Walker did. They might give the Prop 8 side standing whether they're legally entitled to it or not. It's not like the 9th Circuit doesn't have a reputation for doing whatever the hell they want to, law or Constitution be damned.

That said, it really is shitty that Schwarzenegger and Jerry Brown aren't appealing this themselves. Say what you will about the whole idea of "the will of the people," surely it deserves a more zealous defense than it's getting here. If the law is unconstitutional, so be it, but why not exhaust all options on the behalf of the people you were elected to represent and let the appellate judges worry about constitutionality?

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I tend to agree. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the liberal 9th Circuit judges take well into account that ruling that the Prop 8 supporters have no standing to appeal effectively limits the effect of this decision to California only. I'm sure they have their eyes on the big picture just as much as Judge Walker did. They might give the Prop 8 side standing whether they're legally entitled to it or not. It's not like the 9th Circuit doesn't have a reputation for doing whatever the hell they want to, law or Constitution be damned.

That said, it really is shitty that Schwarzenegger and Jerry Brown aren't appealing this themselves. Say what you will about the whole idea of "the will of the people," surely it deserves a more zealous defense than it's getting here. If the law is unconstitutional, so be it, but why not exhaust all options on the behalf of the people you were elected to represent and let the appellate judges worry about constitutionality?

Then you elect new people. That's why there are terms and elections and appointees, so laws aren't constantly changing like crazy - a very important part of any law. That is precisely why SC judges sit on there for life, because it slows the change of laws to counteract fickle people. This is extremely basic.