hey Eurotrash, what do you think about Greece?

[RopeyLopey]

does anyone get it? EU intends to shovel them with money it will never see to come back, and the first thing Greek unions do is to go on 48-hour strike.

Greek protestors unfurl banners on Acropolis - Telegraph

I understand the assistance money is supposed to be used only for bailing out German and other banks loans to Greece, and it is the nations who get fucked and will end up with the actual Greek debt. But why the hell these Greek thieves and cheaters themselves are protesting?

Does anyone see any light on this road going to hell?

[Kahlo]

I think we should cut it loose and let it drift into the med.

[RopeyLopey]

I agree. There are nations who are trying really hard to meet all the EUR criteria, and don't cheat, and these fuckers were cheating and lying all the time, and now they should even get more money? Where's the moral of the story?


I had actually never heard about 14th salaries in my life, that something like that would exist, until I read about Greece. In general reading about the system in that country seems like being on a different planet.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

PEOPLES OF EUROPE
RISE UP

ΛΑΟΊ ΤΗΣ ΕΥΡΏΠΗΣ
ΞΕΣΗΚΩΘΕΊΤΕ

LAOI TIS EUROPIS
XESIKOTHEITE

[redbull]

lol dicks lol

[Cool As Ice Cream]

where?

[sppunk]

As long as it accelerates the collapse of the EU, I'm all for idiotic, fiscally suicidal moves like this.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by sppunk

As long as it accelerates the collapse of the EU, I'm all for idiotic, fiscally suicidal moves like this.

... Why?

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by sppunk

As long as it accelerates the collapse of the EU, I'm all for idiotic, fiscally suicidal moves like this.

hey, look! their banners have the same symbol as your avatar.

About 100 protesters from the Greek Communist Party cut through locks on the gates of the major tourist attraction shortly after dawn and unfurled the banners in Greek and English reading: "Peoples of Europe - Rise Up."

oh wow, about 100 protesters, and they're communists. this isn't "the greek unions" as mentioned in the first post. it's one small political party.
this doesn't really mean anything, does it?

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by Mo

... Why?

Because I think the EU is/will be a devestating sytem of governance for these countries. Having a centralized monitary sytem controlling many countries goes against the most basic and fundemental fiscal foundations. It cannot work in the long-term when it represents countries who cannot take care of themselves financially (including unemployment, labor relations, etc.).

Greece's debt is 115+ percent of its GDP!!! But let's bail 'em out and they'll pay it all back. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Edit: do not take these comments as me urging the collapse of European nations - it is not at all. Just this bullshit centralized "government" that they have misguided themselves into.

[severin]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Because I think the EU is/will be a devestating sytem of governance for these countries. Having a centralized monitary sytem controlling many countries goes against the most basic and fundemental fiscal foundations. It cannot work in the long-term when it represents countries who cannot take care of themselves financially (including unemployment, labor relations, etc.).

Greece's debt is 115+ percent of its GDP!!! But let's bail 'em out and they'll pay it all back. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Edit: do not take these comments as me urging the collapse of European nations - it is not at all. Just this bullshit centralized "government" that they have misguided themselves into.

the problem is, that the possibilites of financial control by the EU are not good enough. The EURO itself was a blessing for most of the countries who chose to take part in it, and the Maastricht-rules were supposed to be the tool of controlling the local fiscal places, so that situations like the greek one would not arise, while placing the control over individual countries to the countries themselves. the greek (not the people, the government) fraudulently forged their data to become part of the euro and broke the maastricht rules. my opinion is, that the eu should get more power in controlling taxation and budgets of the individual countries, not less. this is of course a personal opinion, but i think in the long term, the EU will only survive, if it adopts a system more like the US, a united states of europe so to speak, which still leaves the states a certain amount of individual taxes and laws, but the things that count should be centralised

[Mo]

Plus, a lot of domestic economies would have collapsed / suffered a lot sooner without the single European market, especially after the last "financial crisis".
Also, the members of the European Parliament are slowly realizing that we don't have to kiss the United States' ass at every possible occasion, that we don't need US-style copyright or patent laws, that it's not too cool to pass on all flight passenger or credit card data etc.
Which is certainly a good thing from my perspective.

[duovamp]

You'll kiss that ass and you'll like it!!

[RopeyLopey]

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

oh wow, about 100 protesters, and they're communists. this isn't "the greek unions" as mentioned in the first post. it's one small political party.
this doesn't really mean anything, does it?

from the article:

"Public servants, including state school teachers and hospital workers, began a 48-hour strike Tuesday, with protest marches planned later today."

these guys are not unions, Frantisek?

[redbull]

ugh i think i threw up in my shoes last night

[RopeyLopey]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Greece's debt is 115+ percent of its GDP!!! But let's bail 'em out and they'll pay it all back. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

well, Japan's debt is like what - over 190% % of their GDP? Is there any panic in Japan because of the number? Spain's debt is even lower than Norway's (!) - the number itself tells you nothing

Originally Posted by severin

the problem is, that the possibilites of financial control by the EU are not good enough. The EURO itself was a blessing for most of the countries who chose to take part in it, and the Maastricht-rules were supposed to be the tool of controlling the local fiscal places, so that situations like the greek one would not arise, while placing the control over individual countries to the countries themselves. the greek (not the people, the government) fraudulently forged their data to become part of the euro and broke the maastricht rules. my opinion is, that the eu should get more power in controlling taxation and budgets of the individual countries, not less. this is of course a personal opinion, but i think in the long term, the EU will only survive, if it adopts a system more like the US, a united states of europe so to speak, which still leaves the states a certain amount of individual taxes and laws, but the things that count should be centralised

well yeah, but what are you going to do about countries that shouldn't have EUR in the first place? They should kick Greece's ass out of EU all the way to Asia Minor for this shit as an exemplary case.

I also do not agree it is only Greek government who is to be blamed for this. Yes, they got Greece into EU through cheating, but each government is only a mirror of its people. Few days ago I read this how tax evasion is Greek's national sport:

Greek Wealth Is Everywhere but Tax Forms - NYTimes.com

You know, in general I think the name of the country ' Greece' and our associations with it are a bit misleading. Ancient Greece has nothing to do with this nation anymore; today's Greece is more about the 400 years of ottoman empire, i.e. Turkey.

[RopeyLopey]

Originally Posted by Mo

... Why?

I think sppunk is only looking for a cheap vacation.

[sppunk]

I go to Europe nearly every year - cheap vacationing unfortunately isn't an option in most places. See you in Germany in December (seriously ... ).

[28if]

i want to post in this thread but i feel like it just isn't worth it.

[exactlythesame]

wrong board

[28if]

we should start posting threads abotu everything but SP in the gen board, we need merger