euthanasia

[redbull]

thoughts?

[Eulogy]

Well you really shouldn't do it if it's illegal.

But uh. It should be legal, if you ask me. I've never really understood arguments against it. Install safeguards regarding mental state, possibility of recovery... put in provisions for what can happen if a patient can't voice his decision... then bam. go for it. I know I'd want the option if I were dying a slow, terrible, painful, agonizing, irreversible death.

[Eulogy]

oh jesus h. christ why do i always look at the youtube comments

i fucking hate the internet

[Starla]

viking funerals need to be legal too

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Well you really shouldn't do it if it's illegal.

You ever smoked pot?

How does the world look from your ivory tower?

[Corganist]

I watched this twice just to make sure that I wasn't wrong on this, but I didn't hear anything in the video about the person in question actually expressing any desire to die. If the story is "He was in pain, so I took it upon myself to smother him with a pillow," absent anything else, then that's not euthanasia. That's just murder.

As for actual euthanasia, I'm kinda torn on it. I think if someone wants to kill themselves, fine. If they want someone to help them, that's fine too. As long as everyone is well aware of what they're getting into and what they can live with, I don't have a problem with it. But I don't think we should carve out legal loopholes or allow an industry to be made out of it either. It's well and good to think that if it were legalized and regulated that it would allow only the poor sick people at the end of their ropes a safe way out. But I'm afraid it'd end up a lot like the way medical marijuana has. We'll end up with docs making the quick buck by writing lethal prescriptions for a lot of less than terminal cases.

[jczeroman]

Provided everything is voluntary and everyone has all the pertinent facts, there should be no restrictions on people killing themselves or others.

That is not to say that I find it alright - I personally am against it - but it should be legal and people should be free to make that choice for themselves.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

You ever smoked pot?

How does the world look from your ivory tower?

what in the living fuck are you talking about

smoking drugs is now equivalent to ending a life. I repeat, you are just a stupid person.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

what in the living fuck are you talking about

smoking drugs is now equivalent to ending a life. I repeat, you are just a stupid person.

do you ever look at what someone quoted before interpreting their response? ever?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

do you ever look at what someone quoted before interpreting their response? ever?

What is your point?

Oh yeah, you are a stupid person. The "it" I reference in the part you quoted clearly represents the taking of a life. What. the. fuck. are you on about?

[Eric Blair]

I think Nimrod's point was that you seem to be saying this guy shouldn't have performed euthanasia simply because it is illegal, but that would apply to things you yourself already do, such as smoking weed.

[Eric Blair]

As if you are saying some things are more illegal than other things

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Eric Blair

As if you are saying some things are more illegal than other things

I think that's a generally accepted viewpoint. That's why we don't have the same sentencing for small first time marijuana offenses and, I don't know, murder.

[Eulogy]

And for the record, I don't smoke weed.

So what now.

[Eulogy]

Clearly, things are either legal or illegal (generally speaking). But to take a shot at me while pretending that degrees of illegality or importance don't exist is another example of nimrod's son's stupidity.

But what more should I expect, really.

[Eric Blair]

I don't think degrees of illegality do exist, though

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Eric Blair

I don't think degrees of illegality do exist, though

Not exactly, no. My only point is that certain illegal things are to be dealt with in a more serious fashion than others. I don't feel like getting into a debate over semantics right now. You know, and nimrod knew, exactly what I meant.

[Eric Blair]

Yes but you went on to say that you didn't think there were any decent arguments in favour of the current law, so it seemed as though your argument was that even if it is morally justifiable you shouldn't do it if it is illegal

[Eric Blair]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

I think that's a generally accepted viewpoint. That's why we don't have the same sentencing for small first time marijuana offenses and, I don't know, murder.

You are talking about the severity of the crime. All those things are equally illegal.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Eric Blair

You are talking about the severity of the crime. All those things are equally illegal.

Yes. You are correct. Sorry.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Eric Blair

Yes but you went on to say that you didn't think there were any decent arguments in favour of the current law, so it seemed as though your argument was that even if it is morally justifiable you shouldn't do it if it is illegal

But again, the seriousness of the issue is too great to throw it aside because of personal moral beliefs. Do you not agree with that? Or was I too vague?

I mean really now.

[Eulogy]

I was not meaning to say that the law dictates or should dictate personal morality. I meant that ending a life is pretty serious business, and personal morality should not trump the law in such serious matters.

[Eric Blair]

No I understand what you are saying. I also agree, to an extent. But there was a case in New Zealand recently where a daughter killed her mother, at the mothers request, because she was in terrible pain and had less than a week to live.

I just think that punishing someone for doing that (she received a prison sentence) is quite vile and in this specific case personal morality should be all that really matters, and the law really ought to take that into account.

I don't know, I am a bit torn though. If you are interested you should read Philippa Foot's essay on euthanasia. It gives a pretty interesting appraisal of all the arguments.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Eric Blair

No I understand what you are saying. I also agree, to an extent. But there was a case in New Zealand recently where a daughter killed her mother, at the mothers request, because she was in terrible pain and had less than a week to live.

I just think that punishing someone for doing that (she received a prison sentence) is quite vile and in this specific case personal morality should be all that really matters, and the law really ought to take that into account.

I don't know, I am a bit torn though. If you are interested you should read Philippa Foot's essay on euthanasia. It gives a pretty interesting appraisal of all the arguments.

I agree that the punishment is vile in cases like the one in this thread and in the one you mention. All I was saying is that it's not a good idea to end someone's suffering so you can embark on a life of it for yourself (potentially).

The law should take it into account, but it doesn't. It's a fucked up situation, and that's why laws should be changed. and they would be if people weren't so fucking afraid of the concept of death.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

I agree that the punishment is vile in cases like the one in this thread and in the one you mention. All I was saying is that it's not a good idea to end someone's suffering so you can embark on a life of it for yourself (potentially).

The law should take it into account, but it doesn't. It's a fucked up situation, and that's why laws should be changed. and they would be if people weren't so fucking afraid of the concept of death.

I disagree that punishment is vile in cases like the one in this thread. I think cases like the one in the video are a perfect example of the sort of thing society fears will happen wide scale should it lower legal barriers to euthanasia. As the video seems to illustrate, sometimes a person's desire to not see a loved one suffer will trump law, reason, or even the sufferer's wishes. I don't see any benefit in making it easier for people to let their emotions get the better of them.

Personally, I lean towards treating assisting someone with euthanasia as we would any other murder. Murder is always illegal, but there are affirmative defenses (like self-defense) that can help one avoid punishment if the right circumstances can be proven. I don't see why that couldn't be the case for euthanasia. Keeping it nominally illegal, but allowing a "terminal, painful illness" kind of affirmative defense for it would serve to make people who want to go through with it be good and sure that it is what they want to do and that they have covered all their bases (i.e., made sure the person is really dying, really suffering, and really wants to die) beforehand.

[Eulogy]

I sort of assumed the victim wanted it to happen. Is that incorrect?

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

I sort of assumed the victim wanted it to happen. Is that incorrect?

I don't know. I'm just going from the video, and in that the guy made no mention of it whatsoever. Seems like a really important point to just leave out, IMO.

[Starla]

Finally I have landed in the right state. Not only do we have legal assisted suicide, we also have medical marijuana.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Starla

Finally I have landed in the right state. Not only do we have legal assisted suicide, we also have medical marijuana.

Oregon?

[ATS]

if they made being gay illegal this all would have been avoided. just goes to show where that leads