Pic Post: You RIGHT NOW!!!! [NSFW] The Resurrection

[cocksure]

Originally Posted by SuckSuckStyle

exactly. it goes..

society=>gender=>personality

i haven't changed. my body has changed and the way the world treats me has changed. i'm the same person i've always been. it just happens that i'm most positively received as a male in regards to how i present myself.

now i'll admit that the hormones DO change brain chemistry. I have noticed changes in the way my moods work, libido, aggression, etc- and i've noted the changes and adapted to them- proof that the conscious mind is stronger than the physical aspects of gender.

gender does not dictate personality.

actually i was talking more about the way one is raised etc.

[SuckSuckStyle]

lol dont get me started on THAT.

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by SuckSuckStyle

i haven't changed. my body has changed and the way the world treats me has changed. i'm the same person i've always been. it just happens that i'm most positively received as a male in regards to how i present myself.

the message here is that rather than challenging and changing a system that treats people differently based on how they choose to express themselves, we should change ourselves so that we can better fit into the system. i think thats sorta troubling, but whatever

[cocksure]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

it comes down to whether you believe "gender"/sex dictates personality/behavior because of social reinforcement or because its hard-wired biology.

obviously i'm more on the side of the former. i mean it can't be ruled out that personality and body have some relationship but the sheer multitude of ways people have interpreted gender throughout history and in other cultures seems to suggest otherwise

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by SuckSuckStyle

lol dont get me started on THAT.

i've bet you had a million discussions on it, and i'm not one to argue with people how they want to participate in gender performance, because really all of us do it. I do it even as a straight male. so theres no need to be divisive but some of the ideas i just talked about get so easily and unfairly dismissed as transphobic by liberals/progressives.

[SuckSuckStyle]

growing up trans- you learn what you have to to get by in your gender role. it's a lot of pretending. transkids understand gender more than anyone and see it as an obstacle to overcome even if they don't realize it. this is probably the biggest impact on a trans person's personality. the frustration and sometimes bitterness.

[SuckSuckStyle]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

the message here is that rather than challenging and changing a system that treats people differently based on how they choose to express themselves, we should change ourselves so that we can better fit into the system. i think thats sorta troubling, but whatever

yeah its troubling but i dont have time to wait around for things to change.

i'm happy in my body.

[SuckSuckStyle]

my ways of challenging the system:

not changing my name and only changing the gender marker on my passport (so i dont get stopped at border crossings or worse). when people check my ID and ask about it i say "oh, yeah im transgender" and look them dead in the eye. only one person ever has said anything to me. she asked why i want to be a boy so bad. i asked her why she wanted me to be a girl so bad. end of story.

live my life as if gender or queer issues don't exist (as much as i can. i still support everyone and go to clubs now and then)- one of my biggest issues with the queer community is how insular it can be. ESPECIALLY trans people. until we start coming out of the woodwork of portland and sanfran and start actively participating in every level of society, we will forever be seen as freaks and the question of gender as something other than male or female will never be challenged. the fluidity will never be discussed outside of a lavender library.

so while it is troubling that "transgender" still connotates a rift in the idea of real gender equality, nobody is really in a position to change that right now. until then i'm gonna blaze my trail across the world.

i'm hoping to be the first transperson to complete the mt. everest base camp circuit.

[cocksure]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

liberals (via sex positivism, enthusiasm for inventing new sexual classes)

and this is something you have no tolerance for?

[SuckSuckStyle]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

some of the ideas i just talked about get so easily and unfairly dismissed as transphobic by liberals/progressives.

extreme leftists don't like being told their support is misdirected, or that their compassion does not equate first-hand experience thus questioning the validity of their chest-thumping.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

the message here is that rather than challenging and changing a system that treats people differently based on how they choose to express themselves, we should change ourselves so that we can better fit into the system. i think thats sorta troubling, but whatever

+

[Eulogy]

so what exactly are you two suggesting a trans person do

[Trotskilicious]

oh no someone disagreed with eulogy lets run and hide

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

oh no someone disagreed with eulogy lets run and hide

what? i hadn't even said anything. i'm just curious.

[duovamp]

I thought Mayfuck had left for good.

[Elvis The Fat Years]

[Graveflower]

Originally Posted by Elvis The Fat Years

RIP :(

[Graveflower]

i texted duovamp to eat shit and he didn't respond

[Elvis The Fat Years]

On October 12, 2004 Putnam was hospitalized after ingesting a cocktail of crack-cocaine, alcohol, heroin, and two months' worth of Ambien sleeping pills.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Graveflower

i texted duovamp to eat shit and he didn't respond

I haven't looked at my phone in a long time. Lemme check.

[SuckSuckStyle]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

so what exactly are you two suggesting a trans person do

yeah i'm curious, too.

i'm pretty sure everyone has, at some point or another, felt like they don't fit in ANYWHERE. Combine these feelings with the social construct of gender roles that is so deeply rooted in just about everything we do (and only provides a handful of options to choose from when identifying where we are on the spectrum) and you aren't left with a whole lot of wiggle room when deciding how to aptly approach something as abstract, tangible, personal and controversial as gender identity.

now add the varying theories on gender, different opinions on how to move society forward, and the fact that trans gender is a very small minority that is largely invisible to anyone outside of the queer bubble, and you're left with a clusterfuck.

[SuckSuckStyle]

also:

i'm a minority within the minority. in that I'm beyond lucky to have the support that I have. There are many many many many trans people who suffer just trying to live life, much less revolutionize the concept.

it's sad but it's true; unless you are at LEAST middle class, it is pretty much impossible to get where i am in my transition. and unless you pass 100%, it's incredibly difficult to be taken seriously in any official capacity. people have to take you seriously if they're going to respect you enough to really consider your thoughts and feelings.

[Charmbag]

Originally Posted by SuckSuckStyle

yeah i'm curious, too.

i'm pretty sure everyone has, at some point or another, felt like they don't fit in ANYWHERE. Combine these feelings with the social construct of gender roles that is so deeply rooted in just about everything we do (and only provides a handful of options to choose from when identifying where we are on the spectrum) and you aren't left with a whole lot of wiggle room when deciding how to aptly approach something as abstract, tangible, personal and controversial as gender identity.

now add the varying theories on gender, different opinions on how to move society forward, and the fact that trans gender is a very small minority that is largely invisible to anyone outside of the queer bubble, and you're left with a clusterfuck.

I think this is all very on point.

It seems to me that everyone just does what they feel they have to do to survive patriarchy and deal with the restrictions our sick culture puts on us based only on the body we're born into. It's not the responsibility of people who identify as trans to be the ones to overthrow the system on their own. The discussion of the politics gets heavy when people start disagreeing about what it means to be a "real woman" or to be "mentally a woman" with a male/XY body and vice versa. Some trans activists seem to further the notion that gender binary is a sound concept by validating the idea of a woman-brain and a man-brain, and that if you are unhappy in your assigned category it just means you need to jump to the other. But like you said, I think deep down these categorizations make most people unhappy to one degree or another. Gender is totally destructive bullshit, but in order to survive we all just try to find a way to be ourselves and be happy under whichever label is less out-of-sync with that.

[cocksure]

i'd go so far as to say that people who identify with their traditional gender role completely, but who aren't hurting others, have every right to believe in that also

[rottenugly]

Originally Posted by Graveflower

i texted duovamp to eat shit and he didn't respond

I find this extremely humorous.

[SuckSuckStyle]

Originally Posted by cocksure

i'd go so far as to say that people who identify with their traditional gender role completely, but who aren't hurting others, have every right to believe in that also

why wouldn't they? I don't think anyone is saying that people like that don't exist or that they dont deserve the right to believe (?) what they want. i think the point is that not everyone feels that way

i'm not just talking about trans people, either. i'm almost positive that if there were some way to gauge it, the percentage of people who really completely identify 100% either male or female would be a very small minority.

[cocksure]

Originally Posted by SuckSuckStyle

why wouldn't they? I don't think anyone is saying that people like that don't exist or that they dont deserve the right to believe (?) what they want.

it can be argued that gender roles are inherently dangerous and accepting the status quo for oneself means spreading the idea that this is what's "normal". like when women feel it's right to make serving their husband their main goal in life or when men feel they shouldn't cry under any circumstances. it can be argued that those people are not aware of their own slavery, and the slavery they impose on others, for example the children they raise in this manner.

[vixnix]

How do we identify as male or female if they are fluid and arbitrary concepts anyway?

[SuckSuckStyle]

yes but why, if you're not pushing it on others or anything, would it not be okay to fully fall into one gender role? if you believe in your role and you're fully comfortable with it and love it, i don't see what the problem is.

i think we agree on this one, yeah?

[SuckSuckStyle]

because we can't escape those concepts in terms of what they mean in society.

and there's always the matter of penis and vagina. i mean we can't ignore THAT. there's always going to be the biological differences and all that that implies. but the idea that our bodies dictate our psyches to the extent that society has gone to structure itself around is absurd.