huh the cia killed 3 detainees during "enhanced interrogations"

[redbull]

CIA Watchdog Report Says Detainees Died During Interrogations

[Future Boy]

no sense looking backward, redbull.

[ATS]

tl dr

was there ultimately any evidence against them or were they completely innocent

[Nimrod's Son]

wah wah who cares

plus pubrecord is a joke site. i don't mean like the onion i mean that it's just a joke.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

wah wah who cares

[Debaser]

some fucked up morals in this thread

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by ATS

tl dr

was there ultimately any evidence against them or were they completely innocent

Innocent people don't die during enhanced interrogations

QED

[Eulogy]

sometimes you just have to keep walkin'

[Debaser]

The only way you can embrace the "Looking Forward" line of logic, or the "some things in life need to be mysterious" line of logic, is to accept that the law works one way for people who've accrued political power, and another way for those who don't. -tnc

If most people tried to make the case that prosecuting their criminal acts was just "looking backwards", or a sign that the prosecutor was motivated by a desire for retribution, they'd be laughed out of court. Imagine the likely reaction if your average crack dealer were to urge the judge not to dwell on the past, or if someone who used accounting fraud to flip houses told offered a prosecutor the chance to be "very Mandelalike in the sense [of] saying let the past be the past and let us move into the future", or if I were pulled over for speeding and, when asked if I knew how fast I was going, replied that "Some things in life need to be mysterious ... Sometimes you need to just keep walking." I don't think any of us would get very far.-hilzoy

[Eulogy]

peggy noonan. what a fucking joke. i had a professor (who i think is awesome in every other way) who would just about orgasm whenever she came up...which was surprisingly often considering it was a class on mark twain. he loves her speeches, especially the thousand points of light one. and i think that line is fucking dumb.

but i tried to give her the benefit of the doubt because of him. but every time i hear her speak i want to take a picaxe and jam it into her eyeballs.

god she sucks so bad.

[Corganist]

I think the "let's not use the justice system as a political revenge tool" card would play better than the "let's not dwell on the past" card.

[The Jesus]

Criminals In Action

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I think the "let's not use the justice system as a political revenge tool" card would play better than the "let's not dwell on the past" card.

it's really not any less idiotic though, is it? it'd be using the justice system for....you know, justice.

if you can lay out a legitimate reason for no investigations or prosecutions without arguing against the false premise that it's being done in the name of political revenge, i'll read it.

but the peggy noonans and ari fleischers and george wills of the world have done a fucking awful job thus far.

[ravenguy2000]

totally changed my mind on george will after reading this

washingtonpost.com

[ravenguy2000]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I think the "let's not use the justice system as a political revenge tool"

this is rich considering you were fine with the previous administration's habit of stuffing the justice department full of gop cronies for those very purposes

[Trotskilicious]

god corganist sucks so much

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

it's really not any less idiotic though, is it? it'd be using the justice system for....you know, justice.

What is "just" about throwing a guy into prison because the current administration disagrees with what he wrote in a memo for the previous administration? Guys like Gonzales and John Yoo and their ilk were asked to do a job and navigate murky gray areas of the law and give their opinions on it. They did so, and now they're in the crosshairs for it. Why? Because some people's opinion falls in a different spot in the gray area. That's not justice.

if you can lay out a legitimate reason for no investigations or prosecutions without arguing against the false premise that it's being done in the name of political revenge, i'll read it.

You can't just wave your hand and declare that the premise that the calls for prosecutions of Bush officials are revenge driven is false. I really don't think that that anybody out there is really cursing the Bush Administration because they're personally broken up about the legality of scum like KSM getting waterboarded. But I digress. It's not important what the motivations are in the end. There will either be prosecutions, or there won't be. All I was saying with my comment was that there are better ways of arguing against potential prosecutions than saying "the past is the past."

There's nothing wrong with investigations in and of themselves if there is a true belief that some egregious wrong occurred that may be uncovered by them. But one would hope that we wouldn't subject people to investigations and the threat of prosecution unless we knew they made decisions so bad that you can't even give them the benefit of being in a tough position. If someone just ignored the law for whatever reason, sure, string them up. But I don't think that's what anyone calling for prosecutions think happened. We shouldn't be cl******g to throw people in jail for being asked to make a tough decision and doing so in full good faith.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

this is rich considering you were fine with the previous administration's habit of stuffing the justice department full of gop cronies for those very purposes

I must have missed the mass prosecutions the Bush DOJ waged against high ranking Clinton administration officials and advisors. Please enlighten me on them.

And I'm sure Obama is being completely politically neutral with his DOJ appointments. I mean, Eric Holder? Not a left-wing ideologue at all. Nope.

All I ever said was that there's nothing shocking or wrong about an executive filling executive branch departments with people that align with him politically. And there's still not.

[Trotskilicious]

you're a right wing ideologue, i dunno why you think it's ok to disapprove of what you consider left-wing ideologe

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

totally changed my mind on george will after reading this

washingtonpost.com

george will mystifies me. he goes from complete hack to insightful genius to ridiculous andy-rooneyesque nonsense writer (like what you posted).

i can't ever form a solid opinion on him. which is probably why i like him.

[exactlythesame]

i love limbaugh's respone around 2:04

[Nimrod's Son]

i was no fan of the Bush Administration but they did decide to ignore pressure from the right and didn't investigate the Clinton Administration choosing instead to move on. i mean come on, vince foster's files show up in the gym?

[Eulogy]

Isn;t the egregious wrong fucking obvious?

WE FUCKING TORTURED PEOPLE. THAT IS NOT OK. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. NO GREY AREA TO NAVIGATE.

jesus fucking christ. you can't claim there is a grey area here without explaining why the fuck it's grey.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by exactlythesame

i love limbaugh's respone around 2:04

it's nice that keith can hide behind his ivory tower and mock callers and hosts that take calls when he himself only works from a script and never takes a random call or speaks with the public and 90% of his guests share his complete ideology so he never gets called on anything

seriously i can't believe you guys like that douchebag. he's as bad as limbaugh. well, worse, because he's a pussy about it.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

you're a right wing ideologue, i dunno why you think it's ok to disapprove of what you consider left-wing ideologe

I'm not disapproving of anyone. I'm just saying that there's never been anything unusual about an ideologue getting appointed to a political position. There's this implication that Bush's "politicization" of the DOJ was somehow out of the ordinary and wrong to defend. The reality is that the whole reason the President is allowed appointment power is so that the departments under him are in line with his way of thinking. I'm just dismissing any implication that Obama has shown himself to be any different.

[Eulogy]

"make a tough decision in good faith"

what sort of warped country do we live in where whether or not to torture is a tough decision? this is so fucking infuriating.

torture never works. even in the hypothetical ticking time bomb scenario, which has never and likely will never exist, it is unlikely to work. if our country tortures, we throw everything we stand for under the fucking bus. which is exactly what the previous administration did. but no, we need to give them the benefit of the doubt? what the fuck does that even mean? there was a chance that mercilessly torturing people might possibly lead to some sort of clue about what might someday turn into a potential attack on our soil? WHAT?!

[exactlythesame]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

it's nice that keith can hide behind his ivory tower and mock callers and hosts that take calls when he himself only works from a script and never takes a random call or speaks with the public and 90% of his guests share his complete ideology so he never gets called on anything

seriously i can't believe you guys like that douchebag. he's as bad as limbaugh. well, worse, because he's a pussy about it.

i don't like olbermann either but it was the quickest way i could find the limbaugh quote on youtube

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Isn;t the egregious wrong fucking obvious?

WE FUCKING TORTURED PEOPLE. THAT IS NOT OK. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. NO GREY AREA TO NAVIGATE.

jesus fucking christ. you can't claim there is a grey area here without explaining why the fuck it's grey.

The term "torture" has a meaning. It's not a code word for "anything that might make squeamish people uncomfortable." There's a line between what is torture, and what is not torture. And that line isn't bright.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by exactlythesame

i don't like olbermann either but it was the quickest way i could find the limbaugh quote on youtube

yeah i wasn't accusing you per se, but i love that olbermann brings on his lackey hayes and then they spend twice as long as the entire clip is tearing it apart, and they say "well most callers are crazy and liars but it seems this caller is honest and truthful!"

it's such a fucking joke.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Corganist

The term "torture" has a meaning. It's not a code word for "anything that might make squeamish people uncomfortable." There's a line between what is torture, and what is not torture. And that line isn't bright.

waterboarding is fucking torture. we executed japanese men who did this to american POWs on the grounds that it was torture.