Corgan talks about Netphoria (And Netphorians)

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by Springbridge

You aren't a fan of something if you bad mouth it, Period.

lol check out this guy

[Rockin' Cherub]

Originally Posted by ChristHimself!

i want to draw a graph of people becoming indie over time but i cant be arsed

i'm sure i listen to less "indie" than you do

[ChristHimself!]

im sure your definition of indie is far removed from mine, since you think that "classical music" is an invalid term no one understands

[zerock]

Billy considers you toxic, netphoria...they want to kill you ppl...check it out...
Smashing Pumpkins dot com | billy jimmy on state our union

[Rockin' Cherub]

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[ChristHimself!]

wrong board

[ravenguy2000]

Originally Posted by Springbridge

You aren't a fan of something if you bad mouth it, Period.

YOU CAN'T BE CATHOLIC AND PRO-ABORTION, TOO!!

[Oklahoma Sexual]

*yawn*

[severin]

i posted that in the "toxic" news on sp.com, some of this ha been said in this thread, and this is the last i'll say of this matter:

billy, jimmy, those people that you speak of, these people that you critizize for being negative, these people you call "toxic". many of these are the same people who made mellon collie a 8 time platinum double album. these are the same people who go out and record your shows for others to hear. these are the same people that travel throughout europe or the US to follow your band and spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars for it.
i don't say they own you. i don't say you have to do as they please. i don't say that some if not many of the comments made on "these parts of the online community" (why not tell the name of the board you speak of?) are unproductive. but i do say that it lacks an enourmous amount of respect to say "they have to go". i love your band, i love most of the music you produced, but there are parts of your history, decisions, statements, actions that i don't like, and most of them happend in recent times. i don't say "they have to go" like you do.
you don't want to hear what these people say. you don't want to hear about technicalities like the mastering on mary star of hte sea, you don't want to hear about the problems people have with attending 20th anniversary shows, because they are (to them) a rehash of the recent tour (and then, when you get the feeling that there might problems put out a statement where you tell everyone that it will be a "new pumpkins show"). you don't want to talk about what happened to the djali zwan stuff, which so many people loved and adored. you don't want to answer the questions concerning the "final show dvd"...that's why people get annoyed, because between 1990 and 2000 they built a connection with you and since then they feel like all of this isn't worth anything if they dare to ask unwelcome questions...i'll still buy your music, i'll still go to your shows, because i think the connection i had with your band during the 90's is more important than my opinions on your current output. i want to like it. it would be a great move if you'd do the same and fight for the relationship with those fans and not say "they have to go"...

[Cool As Ice Cream]

when i think of the smashing pumpkins community/communities, i don't see the band as part of it. for me it's more about the band, not a way to interact.

it's kind of weird that the subject of our community suddenly starts commenting on the community.
if they want to start a new community on sp.com, and control that one, that's fine.
i don't see where they get the right to comment on netphoria though. i mean, everyone can, but i'm sure they know this place as well as the average "omg hatephoria lol" person, leaving their opinion fairly worthless.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by ChristHimself!

but it doesnt help if those people stick around to repeatedly post how much they don't like it, over and over and over and over and over....

Are you insinuating that Billy's nasty disposition is somehow affected by what is written on netphoria? lol

[ChristHimself!]

did you read the first post? lol

[T&T]

how do we know he's not talking about www.IHateBillyCorgan.com ?
it's a little presumptuous to think he's talking about this board.

[sniffingchimp]

Regardless of Netphoria, which Billy seems to be directing the hate at, he's more than capable of pulling a bitch-fit on stage when people tune out during meandering epics like Set the Controls. If the crowd dont like it, you can't throw a strop. Accept it and continue or stop playing songs which seem to be consistently alienating your demographic.

I'm loving the new sets but I think cutting a couple of overlong songs would do wonders for the crowd reactions in general, and in turn maybe raise appease Billy and stop him from lashing out and sneering about “playing the hits”.

[Caine Walker]

Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream

i don't see where they get the right to comment on netphoria though.

well, it is a smashing pumpkins message board.

i think what bothers me the most is that corgan isn't allowing his fans of 10-15-20 years to be frustrated with him. people who haven't just openly embraced what's going on time-current are full of negativity and unwanted advice. really? that's how you're going to treat the people who stuck by you for almost two decades, and that's your final word on that matter?

it seems as though it would be more productive to say something like, "well, we understand that people aren't going to necessary swallow what we're doing now. and that's fine. but we're doing what we're doing for the sake of our livelihood, and we stand behind it."

an attempt to completely and deliberately alienate yourself from an entire part of your fanbase seems asinine to me.

but this is probably *negative.*

and *unwanted advice.*

fuck it, i'm starting my own band again.

anyway, i have genuinely enjoyed most of the output over the last year and a half or so (has it already been that long?). i've seen this incarnation of the band more times than i was able to see the original line-up. i really like what the new band members bring to the energy of the music, and they seem to get better every time i see them.

i really hope that billy finds some sort of peace with what he's doing, because at the rate he's going, the guy is going to be in a constant state of struggle and denial until the day he dies.

[T&T]

i think "bridging the gap" really is the issue
and has ALWAYS been an issue for SP between every era/album they've done.
a 7 year gap is a BIG one that's gonna take a bit more time to heal/understand.

we've been vultures in waiting. can't deny that.

[sniffingchimp]

Originally Posted by T&T

i think "bridging the gap" really is the issue
and has ALWAYS been an issue for SP between every era/album they've done.
a 7 year gap is a BIG one that's gonna take a bit more time to heal/understand.

we've been vultures in waiting. can't deny that.

I don't know whether I would say we've been vultures, I think Zeitgeist (followed by American Gothic) for the most part was disappointing and that started the ball rolling....

[Caine Walker]

wasn't that supposedly the initial idea? to put something out that would be an inyourfacegetyoutopayattentionagain release?

i can't wait until all of this becomes part of the "long-ranging concept album".

[Kahlo]

Alienating his fanbase is all part of the plan. Ask Izzle.

[28if]

It seems to me like Billy's main problem is that he is just completely disconnected from his real fanbase. He refuses to listen to the real, constructive criticism a lot of us have to say about the band. He just lumps all of the "haters" together. It seems like he thinks the only reason people don't like SP2 is because James isn't there, or they're not playing enough hits, or they're making different music. The only times he will address criticism is when it's along those veins, ie last night's show in Washington.

My problem with the band has nothing to do with that. Really, all I want is for Billy to make honest music for honest reasons. I don't give a shit whether or not it sounds like "The Smashing Pumpkins." I don't really even give a shit if it's good or not. I just want something I can respect and accept.

It seems like he is more concerned with being the biggest band in the world again than just making good music that he believes in. It's like Billy cares more about attracting new, young fans than just fucking doing his own thing. He just can't accept that that might mean doing things on a smaller scale.

It's just frustrating when all you want from your favourite band is for them to make music for themselves again, and all they can tell you is to "fuck off."

[T&T]

Originally Posted by sniffingchimp

I don't know whether I would say we've been vultures, I think Zeitgeist (followed by American Gothic) for the most part was disappointing and that started the ball rolling....

to hang on every word, from every youtube clip, every internet blog, every show, every interview & every detail possible.
we've been vultures.
it's the nature of the internet in 2008.
Billy's not running for president ( well we have pics showing otherwise)
but we've been criticizing every contradiction as though clarity would bring us to communion.


the religion of billy corgan is just like every other.
there are flaws.
there's no salvation
there's no "next level" transcendence.
there's just the moment
and i think billy knows this now.
tough to switch that up on rabid fans that got hooked in the first place.

[T&T]

Originally Posted by 28if

It seems like he is more concerned with being the biggest band in the world again than just making good music that he believes in. It's like Billy cares more about attracting new, young fans than just fucking doing his own thing. He just can't accept that that might mean doing things on a smaller scale.

sp2 has totally been on a smaller scale
playing set the controls for 20+ mins is totally billy doing his own thing
it's not about attracting "new" fans, but attracting fans that are excited about what the band is doing NOW.
billy totally believed in zeitgeist.
given time it'll be appreciated like the rest... adore babies are the proof of this.

[severin]

Originally Posted by T&T

billy totally believed in zeitgeist.

did he also believe in releasing god knows how many different versions? did he also really belief in destroying the concept of an album with putting different "bonus tracks" at different places in the tracklist? the problem here is: both answers would irk me...

[T&T]

machina was a concept album, and the track listing on that is completely fucked in every imaginable sense. he's already broken those rules. and i don't think zeitgeist was a concept album.




edit:
oh, you said "concept of an album"... well i don't know what that means.

[28if]

Originally Posted by severin

did he also believe in releasing god knows how many different versions? did he also really belief in destroying the concept of an album with putting different "bonus tracks" at different places in the tracklist? the problem here is: both answers would irk me...

Exactly.

Even as far as the music goes, I find it hard to believe the same man that wrote Adore really meant what he was saying with "we are... we are STARZ." I mean. Fuck.

Did Billy "believe" in Zeitgeist's ability to attract new fans and bring the band back to the top of the world? Maybe. Did he believe in the music itself as a true expression of himself as an artist? I hope not.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally Posted by T&T

oh, you said "concept of an album"... well i don't know what that means.

i think this means "the album as a whole, as a unit". with the tracks ordered the way the artist thinks people should listen to it.

that's something i found weird the last year. billy said "people don't listen to albums anymore. so yeah, we won't make any more albums."
if that is his only reason to stop making albums, that's not so nice, in my opinion.

[Kahlo]

Just you all wait for the O-board. Then you will see what SP mean by how a fanbase should be.

[T&T]

Originally Posted by 28if

I find it hard to believe the same man that wrote Adore really meant what he was saying with "we are... we are STARZ." I mean. Fuck.

it's the same guy who wrote
"As long as there's some money"
"wanna go for a ride"
"won't you please worship me"



i don't see your point.

[Caine Walker]

Originally Posted by 28if

Exactly.

Even as far as the music goes, I find it hard to believe the same man that wrote Adore really meant what he was saying with "we are... we are STARZ." I mean. Fuck.

Did Billy "believe" in Zeitgeist's ability to attract new fans and bring the band back to the top of the world? Maybe. Did he believe in the music itself as a true expression of himself as an artist? I hope not.

he had mentioned that zeitgeist was just a reintroduction to the band.

whatever that ended up being. it's all part of the "journey", i suppose.

[severin]

Originally Posted by T&T

machina was a concept album, and the track listing on that is completely fucked in every imaginable sense. he's already broken those rules. and i don't think zeitgeist was a concept album.




edit:
oh, you said "concept of an album"... well i don't know what that means.

i meant that the album as a concept is songs arranged in a determined order to achieve the greater meaning the artist wanted to convey. if that makes sense. or differently: the pumpkins have been a band where the order of the songs on their albums had meaning, even in context of the medium they used (hence the different tracklist on mcis lp and cd). when you go around and add bonus tracks wherever you want it's very obvious, that either there is no such bigger meaning, or that you don't care about it, or that you haven't had enough control over your work to stop the record-label from fucking with it...each of these possibilities is something that was part of the impact of the pumpkins...it doesn't seem to be anymore