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Old 03-25-2002, 10:37 PM   #1
Travis Meeks
 
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Question Corgan's Biggest Blunder

Yes, Billy has done a lot of stupid things since creating SP. His intentions were good at times, and at times he was just misunderstood. But what do you think the dumbest thing he's ever done? For me it's either got to be firing Jimmy almost immediately after the ole redrum incident or the whole Machina mystery thing. Actually, I think the whole Machina mystery thing was the worst idea. It might have been alright if he actually did something with it. God damn that thing pisses me off.

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 10:42 PM   #2
Injektilo
 
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his biggest mistake was coming off as an egotistical brat to the media, who from then on refused to listen to his music and instead focused on his attitude. After that, he was stereotyped, and that turned off alot of people who then refused to take his music seriously.

uh, the whole machina thing was kinda silly too, IMO.

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 10:45 PM   #3
Travis Meeks
 
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but he is an egotistical brat. I agree that he did make it symbolize him though.

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 10:49 PM   #4
Injektilo
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Travis Meeks:
but he is an egotistical brat. I agree that he did make it symbolize him though.

I don't think he's as egotistical as the media made/make him out to be. ie, the Q magazine article from a couple years ago. I really doubt that was accurate of how billy is all the time.

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 10:51 PM   #5
Castro
 
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Thumbs up

I agree with the Jimmy thing. They should have stopped the tour right there and let everyone float back to earth before talking it through and continuing later.

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 10:55 PM   #6
Castro
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Injektilo:

I don't think he's as egotistical as the media made/make him out to be. ie, the Q magazine article from a couple years ago. I really doubt that was accurate of how billy is all the time.
Yeah, wanna hear a story? I read something about him trying to play games with his arch enemies (i.e. the British music press) by conducting his interviews as if he were the character of 'Glass' himself. Thankfully, he only did it once before even he realised he was being ridiculous.

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 11:16 PM   #7
Injektilo
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Castro:
Yeah, wanna hear a story? I read something about him trying to play games with his arch enemies (i.e. the British music press) by conducting his interviews as if he were the character of 'Glass' himself. Thankfully, he only did it once before even he realised he was being ridiculous.
I've heard that too, but I don't know that its true. I mean, its certainly possible, but....
I think it was in the Graceful Swans of Never documentry that billy himself said something about how he wished he has presented himself differently to the media. maybe he was talking about that Q interview specifically, I don't know.



------------------
how'd this world get so fucking fun, all of a sudden?

 
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Old 03-25-2002, 11:16 PM   #8
THRILLHO
 
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i made this topic a while ago, and i said the #1 stupidest thing was the machina mystery bullshit.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 01:21 AM   #9
Fathoms (unadored)
 
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His biggest blunder was allowing himself to be confined with his writing (ie: Ok, must right songs in the context of "the Smashing Pumpkins") rather than just making music for the love of making music, regardless of context... When Gish came out he kept saying how they were going to play all styles of music and how this would ensure they wouldn't have to break up the band just to play different kinds of music. In the end, he allowed expectations to influence his direction, just when things could of really started to get weird. As much as I like the Machina album, its not as necessary as the other albums because their is a heavy element of Pumpkin context poured into it...which is good for a final album, but things didnít need to come to that part... So what if D'arcy leaves? The Pumpkins were an ever changing entity, they survived without Jimmy long enough to make the most unique and arguably best album in they're collection (Adore). A short-handed Smashing Pumpkins is better than no Smashing Pumpkins in my opinion.

*hopes this doesn't evolve into yet another thinly disguised Machina bashing thread*

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 02:12 AM   #10
Crono
 
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I'd have to go with firing Jimmy. They lost a dynamic that, while it may have influenced adore in some way towards the better, wasn't best for the band. I couldn't give a flying fuck for what any media says about the band, good or bad. I love the band, and when you love something you take the good with the bad. So what if Billy's an egocentric control freak? SD came straight out of that atmosphere and the band survived. The Machina Mystery was stupid, but if you don't like it don't pay attention. Machine itself is an awesome album.

and Fathoms, do you really think he fell to pressure and fell back toward the heavy guitars after Adore? Billy's not an idiot and he probably knew the album would be lackluster in sails, they had nothing for them except the fan base. The scene and time was against them. If he had wanted more commercial sucess he would have put more time into the M2 tracks that would've boosted sales.

Not firing Jimmy would have given them a much needed break, too. I haven't heard of anything but record, tour, record, tour, record, tour, record, tour...

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 03:11 AM   #11
Mayfuck
 
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The one thing I'm grateful for in the firing of Jimmy in '96 is, of course, without it we wouldn't have Adore. The fact that Jimmy's dynamic is missing in that album makes it a gem and I wouldn't want that album any other way.

As for the media thing, it's a two way road. The media will hype up a stereotype and artists will play off that stereotype. Look what it's done for Courtney Love and Marilyn Manson. Who takes their music seriously beside their fans anymore?

Billy's worst blunder I would say is MACHINA. Don't get me wrong, MACHINA is wonderful and Im defiteley a MACHINA fan boy. But what irks me is when Billy said he only put 80% effort into the album, and I can only imagine how much better it would be if he put the time and dedication in MACHINA as he did with previous albums.

Also he should not have let the media get away with hyping Adore up as a "techno" album.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 04:29 AM   #12
Lady of the Sacred Heart
 
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Wink

oh, but it is...I would have rather listened to delirium (no i wouldn't) than that shit, but it bombed anyway, no surprise....

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 10:53 AM   #13
Example
 
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Thumbs down

Making Ava Adore the first single off of Adore, and the ensuing video.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 11:04 AM   #14
Suck Smile
 
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Firing Jimmy. Yet he admitted that it was a mistake. It would be interesting to see where their career would have been if they did take a year off after that incident instead of carrying on like they did.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 11:13 AM   #15
*sweet sweet*
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lady of the Sacred Heart:
oh, but it is...I would have rather listened to delirium (no i wouldn't) than that shit, but it bombed anyway, no surprise....

Go away.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 12:43 PM   #16
Reyngel
 
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I hate when people say that the biggest mistake was continuing after the Jimmy-overdose shit, as though it's their own opinion, and not just saying what Billy said was their biggest mistake. Heh, come on. If Billy never had said that it was a mistake to continue working after Jimmy, then no one would have thought bad about them finishing the tour, etc. If Billy said that Mellon Collie was their worst album, there'd be people saying "Hmmm... I'd have to say Mellon Collie was the worst album." Hehe.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 12:51 PM   #17
Reyngel
 
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Oh, and I think their biggest mistake was the organization of the the final shows. Fucking ridiculous. Billy doesn't tell the world shit about them breaking up until pretty much the very end of the U.S. Machina tour, and then mentions that they'll probably do a farewell tour after Europe and Asia. They come back, and what, the decide on only two shows... one of which is at the Metro, which is impossible to fit all the people that want to celebrate their closing. I think way too many people were unnecesarilly hurt because they had no way to get to Chicago and shit. I know I'd have felt jipped if I didn't have the money to get there. They've always said that they price their shows way less than most artists so that decent, real people can see them. But then, suddenly, a concert's costing a couple hundred dollars, instead of the normal $35 for a show that could have been part of a farewell tour.

I think there should have been mention of a last tour as well as a final Metro show. That way people could have planned it better. They could either see only the tour show, or try for the Metro show, or both. People weren't really left with a chance.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 01:31 PM   #18
Sacred Age Of Innocence
 
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Angry

Quote:
Originally posted by Reyngel:
Oh, and I think their biggest mistake was the organization of the the final shows. Fucking ridiculous. Billy doesn't tell the world shit about them breaking up until pretty much the very end of the U.S. Machina tour, and then mentions that they'll probably do a farewell tour after Europe and Asia. They come back, and what, the decide on only two shows... one of which is at the Metro, which is impossible to fit all the people that want to celebrate their closing. I think way too many people were unnecesarilly hurt because they had no way to get to Chicago and shit. I know I'd have felt jipped if I didn't have the money to get there. They've always said that they price their shows way less than most artists so that decent, real people can see them. But then, suddenly, a concert's costing a couple hundred dollars, instead of the normal $35 for a show that could have been part of a farewell tour.

I think there should have been mention of a last tour as well as a final Metro show. That way people could have planned it better. They could either see only the tour show, or try for the Metro show, or both. People weren't really left with a chance.
I agree 1000% I feel jipped as I like many others would have loved to have gone to the final show but for christ sake it was too short of notice as it seemed at first notice, the farewell show would have been in Feb around my birthday but no it is short notice in decemeber & like many others, I got screwed out of going!

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 01:40 PM   #19
Travis Meeks
 
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by Example:
Making Ava Adore the first single off of Adore, and the ensuing video.
how about making The Everlasing Gaze the first single and that god aweful video. I know once Machina came out the expectations were high and this song drove alot of would-be fans away

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 02:18 PM   #20
Fathoms (unadored)
 
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Crono, I wasn't talking about commercial expectations I was talking about fan expectations and personal expectations. In the break up announcement he mentioned that James needed to play music that was closer to his heart. After the final concert, he seemed liberated by this newfound artistic freedom that he should have still had with the Pumpkins. He believed in the project so much that he lost interest in shifting the dynamics of the group. After Adore, they continued on as the post-Mellon Collie Pumpkins. Machina sounds like a Smashing Pumpkins record. He shouldn't have felt he had to play the role as the megalomaniac band leader and make an album with Zeros(Teg) 1979s (TTT) Tonight Tonights (AOI) with an epic sandwhiched in the middle (G&TGC). In essence, he typecasted himself.


[This message has been edited by Fathoms (unadored) (edited 03-26-2002).]

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 02:25 PM   #21
Aibyouka
 
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Cool

MASHEENA MYZTREEEEEEE!!!!!!!1

GISH MONTH: R U READY!!!!!!!1

fucking courtney love...

uhh...
hm.

the dress.
the fat man on the toilet in siyl.
try try try as a single? oo man...
fuck, the tracklist on machina, as we all complain about.
the jimmy thing.
uhh.
jesus, what hasn't corgan fucked up?

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 06:09 PM   #22
Kumar Littlejeans
 
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Machina would have been a great success if maybe more than 27 people knew what the fuck was going on with it. But that's pretty much D'arcy's fault for leaving and messing up their plans, aye?

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 06:33 PM   #23
Age Of Empathy
 
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My God, there were tons.

1) Machina mystery

2) Firing Jimmy

3) Announcing the break up half way through the 2000 tour. It seemed that Billy was waiting to see the sales and reponse to Machina. I hated how he even brought up Britney's name when talking about the break-up, that was a stupid idea.

[This message has been edited by Age Of Empathy (edited 03-26-2002).]

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 06:53 PM   #24
nevermind
 
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Thumbs down

either the last shows deal...

..or the redundancy of many setlists....

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:06 PM   #25
Mayfuck
 
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Cool

Let's not forget TEITBITE.

IP: Logge d

Billy Corgan
The True Poet of Glass



posted 03-26-2002 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Billy Corgan Click Here to Email Billy Corgan Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote send a private message to Billy Corgan
Hey, you know what? Fuck you guys. I'd like to see any of you try to start a musical legacy.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:32 PM   #26
aspecialkid
 
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the man is in the house....
looks like he told you guys whats up...



[This message has been edited by aspecialkid (edited 03-26-2002).]

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:33 PM   #27
doctor awkward
 
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huh.

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:52 PM   #28
Wise
 
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what?

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 07:54 PM   #29
protoculture99
 
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rock on billy.....

WE are the radio

 
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Old 03-26-2002, 08:02 PM   #30
protoculture99
 
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or rock on admin

 
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