stupid religious argument

[I'm Hardcore]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

being a superstitious fucktard is your own fault, asshole, not netphoria's

you're an excellent example of what is wrong with organized religion, specifically christians, in that you come into threads spouting off bullshit about "hypotheses" and "facts" in a scientific context when you clearly don't even have an iota of basic scientific knowledge, the kind that you should have picked up in middle school. and then you come in and read from the typical christian persecution script, oh boo hoo, everybody looks down on me because i'm not an atheist. please, please, please cry me a river that when you go out in the real world where christians control the media, government, business, and virtually ever other influential institution of power in the western world but when you come to netphoria you have to deal with the idea that your belief system is a complete and utter sham. a destructive harmful sham at that.

now if you excuse me i'm going to play for you a tiny little invisible violin

see that? see that? can you hear the sweet, mournful imaginary music i'm playing for you? can you bear listening to it as i look down my looooooong aetheist nose at you?

this is fucking awesome. game, set, match.

[exactlythesame]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

being a superstitious fucktard is your own fault, asshole, not netphoria's

you're an excellent example of what is wrong with organized religion, specifically christians, in that you come into threads spouting off bullshit about "hypotheses" and "facts" in a scientific context when you clearly don't even have an iota of basic scientific knowledge, the kind that you should have picked up in middle school. and then you come in and read from the typical christian persecution script, oh boo hoo, everybody looks down on me because i'm not an atheist. please, please, please cry me a river that when you go out in the real world where christians control the media, government, business, and virtually ever other influential institution of power in the western world but when you come to netphoria you have to deal with the idea that your belief system is a complete and utter sham. a destructive harmful sham at that.

now if you excuse me i'm going to play for you a tiny little invisible violin

see that? see that? can you hear the sweet, mournful imaginary music i'm playing for you? can you bear listening to it as i look down my looooooong aetheist nose at you?

Look, man, I'm completely used to being looked down on, derided, insulted, etc. I can take this on Netphoria and any other place it comes from. And don't get the wrong impression: I'm not upset at you, sleeper, eulogy, caine walker, I'm Hardcore or anyone else who disagrees with my viewpoint. My reply was mainly directed at this remark:

Originally Posted by sleeper

i think theres much more nobility in secularism than in religion.

which struck me as odd considering most atheists on here have been considerably intolerant of people who don't share their views. That seems ignoble of itself, if you ask me. It's just the same to me, though; I didn't enter this discussion looking for support.

But no matter; I'll try not to bore you with any more of my useless prattle from now on.

[Debaser]

I am intolerant in the exact same way as I would be towards a grown, adult person that professes a deep and serious belief in Santa Claus. Someone that would proudly announce that their belief in Santa Claus directly influences their political stances on issues like stem cell research and abortion. Someone that expects due credit and sheen of virtue for simply believing in Santa Claus. This is pretty much how I see all religious people. Intolerant? sure. But I don't find it ignoble.

[Debaser]

I'd say simply being a Christian, by definition, should mean you are intolerant of all other religions, for you are announcing the belief in your one true christian god and dismissing all others.

[Rockin' Cherub]

by that definition atheists would be the most intolerant because they dismiss all other religions per se

[Debaser]

True, but the difference in level of intolerance between us is quite small: I'm only dismissing one more religion than you.

[duovamp]

Unless you ******* the religion of non-religion.

[Debaser]

express of non-belief is not a religion.

[Rockin' Cherub]

fuck this thread. i'm going to practise some secret rotten atheist rituals in my basement.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Debaser

express of non-belief is not a religion.

Tell that to public schools.

[sleeper]

Originally Posted by exactlythesame

which struck me as odd considering most atheists on here have been considerably intolerant of people who don't share their views. That seems ignoble of itself, if you ask me. It's just the same to me, though; I didn't enter this discussion looking for support.

But no matter; I'll try not to bore you with any more of my useless prattle from now on.

youre framing this totally the wrong way.

first of all, ditch the nimrodian reduction to the absurd. this is not about people with "different views" (merely different -- no other information is necessary, just the fact of difference is all one has to know), this is about very particular views. not about "other" views, its about these views.

secondly, im not suggesting christians are as bad as this group, but would it be "intolerance," in the sense youre using that word, to criticize neo-nazis, in the exact way and to the exact degree that secular people criticize religion?

no it wouldnt. why wouldnt it? its because what they believe is false and pernicious. they would stil be tolerated in one sense (not beaten up, thrown in jail, etc) but people would be completely intolerant of their views in another sense, as they should be.
the moral here is: respect is conditional. views arent respected because people have them. theyre respected or not on their own merits. people are "intolerant" of religion in this way

[Charmbag]

what is it with people and this idea that all ideas and opinions are deserving of equal consideration and respect

[sleeper]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

what is it with people and this idea that all ideas and opinions are deserving of equal consideration and respect

its the last refuge of a false belief.

when the chips are down, relativism and political correctness provides all the cover they need.

its amazing how much they both benefit from and loathe relativism. their world view is completely incompatible with it (there is one god, one truth, and WE have it!), but they, with fucking revolting cynicism and opportunism, hide behind it when needed.

this has always been one of my pet peeves, this habit of theres. ugh

[Rockin' Cherub]

you're taking your crusade against religion way too seriously. but you come from a different perspective, i.e. america. most christians around here aren't mega pro-life and mega anti-muslim and mega anti-gays etc. so i can tolerate them even if they're wrong

[duovamp]

That's generally considered the kinder stance, but realistically it's somewhat of an unhealthy one. It's really more beneficial to society that we don't let people who have completely ludicrous beliefs march about proclaiming themselves our betters because of it and controlling governments and businesses accordingly. If I told you my deity of choice is my dog who tells me to kill people then I'd be locked away, and with good reason. However because more people accept an invisible man, an equally absurd belief, it is given a pass because you perceive it to be less likely to cause your death. The problem is that it's considered taboo to tell people they're wrong when they're wrong. If somebody's wrong you have a duty to get them on track. You'd pull a gun out of a suicidal man's hand, or help a blind man across a street, but when another kind of gun is held to all of our heads you turn your back because you're afraid of getting on somebody's nerves.

[Rockin' Cherub]

i think the separation of church and state and even economy is much more pronounced in germany than in america. and although you'll encounter a lot of people who believe in some kind of higher power (very similar to what i'm hardcore described in his original post) they tend to be much less dogmatic, especially here in the east.

[Rockin' Cherub]

Originally Posted by duovamp

If somebody's wrong you have a duty to get them on track.

nah that's bullshit. where i come from religious tolerance is mostly a matter of, what h l mencken described with the words

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

[duovamp]

I guess it comes down to whether or not you're the kind of person who would go out of your way to help a blind man across the street. I would.

[Rockin' Cherub]

it's interesting, historically, how america and especially the united states came to be such a strongly religious nation. in europe it's mostly the catholic and eastern orthodox (except for former eastern bloc) strongholds that are most dogmatic, i.e. poland, italy, ireland, greece,...

but the usa wasn't originally a catholic or eastern orthodox country. maybe it's the diversity of religious currents / christian sects that made cultural consciousness rely on the lowest common religious denominator, dogmas and fundamentalism.

[duovamp]

You could say the problem is inherent in a democratic state. Some people found out religion is a great way to control votes, surprise surprise. Plus this place was founded by a bunch of religious nuts who wanted to worship their own stupid stuff no matter what the world said. Trots probably has some incredible insight on the matter of religion's historic rise in the US tbh.

Edit: *Though that isn't to say Europe doesn't have democratic nations, it's just that the U.S. got started as a democratic republic so it was easier to start vote mongering from the beginning.

[Rockin' Cherub]

maybe it has something to do with the fact that the development of democracy in europe often had the clergy on the side of the nobles, as was the case in the french revolution

[duovamp]

I didn't even consider that, but that's a really good point...

[Rockin' Cherub]

then pos rep me you clown

[duovamp]

I can only neutral rep, but I'll gladly give and give.

[fistula freddy]

there has to be a god, otherwise our lives would be so meaningless!

i also relate to the fact that god looks just like me. that's cool. makes me feel like a real man, unlike those stupid monkeys.

[Debaser]

christ how/why did you find this thread

just start a new thread instead

[Starla]

Originally Posted by fistula freddy

there has to be a god, otherwise our lives would be so meaningless!

i agree, except that my prayers are never answered

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Smile

is this thread worth reading?

no

[hnibos]

i like exactlythesame

[Mo]

That was... unexpected.