I wish Machina wasnt so insincere

Catherine Wheel · 01-31-2008, 10:11 PM

I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

themadcaplaughs · 01-31-2008, 10:40 PM

I know what you're getting it, but to me the insincerity is part of what makes it great. It literally sounds like a band breaking up on record.

Azael · 01-31-2008, 10:58 PM

Even ignoring the concept and bad production, the era is full of great songs.
The album is very poorly constructed IMO.

Reyngel · 01-31-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

It literally sounds like a band breaking up on record.

Wow. That's actually a really good point. I'd never thought of it like that before.

I still don't like Machina even half as much as the preceeding albums, but it's now more interesting to me thinking of it that way.

Catherine Wheel · 01-31-2008, 11:19 PM

yeah its not the type of insincerity where its just a band that wants to sell out and make pop songs or cash in on past success. it was a risky album to make because it did none of those things.

still it just feels like a giant mask. the band has always been strange but this time it felt like there was no point to it.

mellon_c0llie · 01-31-2008, 11:23 PM

finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me.

I think that this "insincerity" has last longer than just Machina.

dudehitscar · 02-01-2008, 12:00 AM

Machina is an incredible record.

xezton · 02-01-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

Machina is an incredible record.

finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me.

T&T · 02-01-2008, 01:21 AM

where do you want them to go after the top?
and after people crap on you for trying grace?

great songs are still great songs,
you're the one hung up on him "hiding behind" like he used to be your best friend...

IWishIWasBlank · 02-01-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel

I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

I wish Catherine Wheel would just make a proper non-trolled thread instead of hiding behind completely open-ended questions waiting for people to flame each other instead of him/her/it in an outlandish way. It ruins any respect I had for him and destroys the legacy of Netphoria.

Your post count indicates you've gotten away with this nearly 1,000 times. Netphorians please refer to the "What is the average Netphorian IQ" thread. You apparently have yet to catch on.

Phoenix Down · 02-01-2008, 11:35 AM

Machina is an awesome record, get over it

osamy · 02-01-2008, 12:00 PM

It is not insincerity. It is irony. Thomas Mann's "Doktor Faustus" wears a similar mask with a fictional and undependable narrator. But it is every bit as sincere as anything else Mann wrote.

mayday · 02-01-2008, 12:05 PM

Machina is beautiful. I love the story in it. I could picture the Pumpkins without it. =)

Catherine Wheel · 02-01-2008, 01:53 PM

I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

bigleaguechew · 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel

I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

what sort of fucking drivel is this? take a bath and drop a toaster in.

SimpleUsername · 02-01-2008, 08:23 PM

I've never bothered with the story/concepts etc. of Machina. I just see it as a great album. I prefer Machina II though.

Gish08 · 02-01-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel

I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

get a life

DoomsdayRocket · 02-02-2008, 12:00 AM

wow apparently the old bolly raped more childhoods than george lucas...

Reyngel · 02-02-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel

I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

Good point.

aldango · 02-02-2008, 05:32 AM

I think that the songs stood for themselves. I really wish that the band hadn't done the whole "we're pretending to be a different band" thing. It's embarrassing! The album is incredible though, absolutely love it. And the production

greedo · 02-02-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomsdayRocket

wow apparently the old bolly raped more childhoods than george lucas...

Haha!

I love the Machina albums (and Zwan and Zeitgeist) and I love the Star Wars prequels...though Ep2 is clearly the weakest Star Wars movie by a long shot.

I LOL at the 'raped my childhood' types.

j u n e · 02-02-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellon_c0llie

I think that this "insincerity" has last longer than just Machina.

finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me.

unlachs · 02-02-2008, 08:21 AM

i wish machina wasn't so boring

Luke de Spa · 02-02-2008, 08:33 AM

it is __________

finally someone is ___________ with me

IWishIWasBlank · 02-02-2008, 09:57 AM

Luke De Spa = Winner.

I congratulate you, sir.

Bjarne · 02-02-2008, 11:26 AM

I think what makes this record so great is that it is just on the verge of being insincere. I don't think it was insincere, it just had alot cynicism in it. I don't know, but up till machina 1 and 2 I could actually feel what Corgan meant (eventhough it did become less) , but now with zeitgeist he has lost me.

slunken · 02-02-2008, 12:55 PM

Hold all my calls

exactlythesame · 02-03-2008, 12:51 AM

A couple of his most sincere songs to date are probably Stand Inside Your Love and This Time.

They showcase his pitiable optimism.

T&T · 02-03-2008, 12:53 AM

i'll be by the pool

slunken · 02-03-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T&T

i'll be by the pool

You know the next line [playin' with my gun(s)] always makes me think of the confessions where Billy said he would lay in the pool high on X...I can just imagine millionaire Billy high as a kite and playing with himself on one of those inflatable recliners w/ a cup holder. Now THAT'S insincerity.

01-31-2008, 10:11 PM	#1
Catherine Wheel Banned Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 6,321	I wish Machina wasnt so insincere I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

02-02-2008, 11:26 AM	#26
Bjarne Amish Rake Fighter Location: les pays bas Posts: 15	cynicism I think what makes this record so great is that it is just on the verge of being insincere. I don't think it was insincere, it just had alot cynicism in it. I don't know, but up till machina 1 and 2 I could actually feel what Corgan meant (eventhough it did become less) , but now with zeitgeist he has lost me.

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01-31-2008, 10:40 PM	#2
themadcaplaughs Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,030	I know what you're getting it, but to me the insincerity is part of what makes it great. It literally sounds like a band breaking up on record.

01-31-2008, 10:58 PM	#3
Azael Apocalyptic Poster Location: Australia Posts: 1,177	Even ignoring the concept and bad production, the era is full of great songs. The album is very poorly constructed IMO.

01-31-2008, 11:19 PM	#5
Catherine Wheel Banned Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 6,321	yeah its not the type of insincerity where its just a band that wants to sell out and make pop songs or cash in on past success. it was a risky album to make because it did none of those things. still it just feels like a giant mask. the band has always been strange but this time it felt like there was no point to it.

01-31-2008, 11:23 PM	#6
mellon_c0llie Minion of Jesus Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 564	finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me. I think that this "insincerity" has last longer than just Machina.

02-01-2008, 12:00 AM	#7
dudehitscar Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,652	Machina is an incredible record.

02-01-2008, 01:21 AM	#9
T&T Socialphobic Location: montreal Posts: 10,142	where do you want them to go after the top? and after people crap on you for trying grace? great songs are still great songs, you're the one hung up on him "hiding behind" like he used to be your best friend...

02-01-2008, 11:35 AM	#11
Phoenix Down Apocalyptic Poster Location: Bayern München Posts: 3,305	Machina is an awesome record, get over it

02-01-2008, 12:00 PM	#12
osamy Pledge Location: Minneapolis Posts: 139	It is not insincerity. It is irony. Thomas Mann's "Doktor Faustus" wears a similar mask with a fictional and undependable narrator. But it is every bit as sincere as anything else Mann wrote.

02-01-2008, 12:05 PM	#13
mayday Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 3,354	Machina is beautiful. I love the story in it. I could picture the Pumpkins without it. =)

02-01-2008, 01:53 PM	#14
Catherine Wheel Banned Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 6,321	I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

02-01-2008, 08:23 PM	#16
SimpleUsername Amish Rake Fighter Posts: 8	I've never bothered with the story/concepts etc. of Machina. I just see it as a great album. I prefer Machina II though.

02-02-2008, 12:00 AM	#18
DoomsdayRocket Demi-God Posts: 477	wow apparently the old bolly raped more childhoods than george lucas...

02-02-2008, 05:32 AM	#20
aldango Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 3,081	I think that the songs stood for themselves. I really wish that the band hadn't done the whole "we're pretending to be a different band" thing. It's embarrassing! The album is incredible though, absolutely love it. And the production

02-02-2008, 08:21 AM	#23
unlachs Ownz Location: melbourne Posts: 532	i wish machina wasn't so boring

02-02-2008, 08:33 AM	#24
Luke de Spa someone more...punk rock? Location: Ice cream pig out in M1-aud is why i don't play plug in baby the wrong way, like you Posts: 22,217	it is __________ finally someone is ___________ with me

02-02-2008, 09:57 AM	#25
IWishIWasBlank Apocalyptic Poster Location: Wisconsin Posts: 4,407	Luke De Spa = Winner. I congratulate you, sir.

02-02-2008, 12:55 PM	#27
slunken Virgo Posts: 39,745	Hold all my calls

02-03-2008, 12:51 AM	#28
exactlythesame Minion of Satan Location: I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes Posts: 7,680	A couple of his most sincere songs to date are probably Stand Inside Your Love and This Time. They showcase his pitiable optimism.

02-03-2008, 12:53 AM	#29
T&T Socialphobic Location: montreal Posts: 10,142	i'll be by the pool