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[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

democrats of the past presided over the two world wars

I know this, but i think we were right to get involved in both. What are we accomplish ing with what obama is doing?

[MyOneAndOnly]

yeah, what are we accomplishing with Obama pulling us out of the two wars that George Bush started?

[Starla]

What did he accomplish by descimating Libya and bombing Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia? Killing innocent people for "suspected terrorism"?

[Starla]

What democratic president have we had in the past funded terrorists?

[Starla]

Why would obama keep a gulag open when he promised to close it? Why did he expand on gwb patriot act? Why did Benghazi have to happen? There is no other democratic president that has committed the amount of war crimes obama has. Johnson was wrong to go into Vietnam but even then, what obama is doing is inexcusable.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

What democratic president have we had in the past funded terrorists?

kennedy

[Trotskilicious]

LBJ

[Trotskilicious]

oh lol i forgot about those two for democratic warmongers

the only democratic president in the last 50-60 years not to have any wars or "interventions" was probably jimmy carter but i'm sure he invaded somewhere with something

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

I know this, but i think we were right to get involved in both. What are we accomplish ing with what obama is doing?

nobody should have been involved in world war i

in fact if the germans won world war 1 there might be a lot more jews alive today

[Trotskilicious]

and yeah startla what ruind jimmy carter was the iran hostage crisis,

iran/contra was about illegally selling weapons to rebels in el salvator and iran

this had no negative impact on reagan whatsoever, and i believe is standard policy these days

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

Why would obama keep a gulag open when he promised to close it?

gulags are work camps where the soviets would send talented, intelligent but rebellious individuals (and sometimes not even rebellious just useful) to work on things like radios and nuclear weapon technology

what's going on gitmo is a really nasty POW camp

[MyOneAndOnly]

starla is extra stupid today. so much wrong in her last dozen or so posts that I can't even...

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Starla

I know this, but i think we were right to get involved in both.

liberals also started the mexican war, the spanish american war and the proxy decimation of the philippines, korea, and vietnam.

Originally Posted by Starla

What did he accomplish by descimating Libya and bombing Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia? Killing innocent people for "suspected terrorism"?

decimating Libya? please explain to me the scope of the libya strikes because you seem to have such a perfect understanding of them. He's actually killed a lot of al-Qaeda, Taliban, and other assorted militant leaders through the CIA war in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Now the civilian toll is probably not worth it, and I think the bottom line is that killing terrorists makes more terrorists, but the drone war has been very effective in fulfilling its mission. Keep in mind also that a new report released by the Pakistani government puts the number of civilian deaths far, far lower than independent source has estimated, as low as 60 something in the whole set of operations. Now this could just be because of Pakistan's terrible capacity to do anything correctly, but it's still worth noting that there is the possibility that accounts of thousands dead in the drone war could be inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Starla

What democratic president have we had in the past funded terrorists?

like every single one, are you serious? have you just never become aware of world events until Barack Obama took office?

Originally Posted by Starla

Why would obama keep a gulag open when he promised to close it? Why did he expand on gwb patriot act? Why did Benghazi have to happen? There is no other democratic president that has committed the amount of war crimes obama has. Johnson was wrong to go into Vietnam but even then, what obama is doing is inexcusable.

obama has attempted to close guantanamo but can't. again, you seem to not realize how different entities in the US government interact to make policy

Benghazi is fabricated outrage by the right wing, this is the kind of thing that I don't understand how you could be into unless you get your news from fox or yahoo.

And no democratic pres has committed as many war crimes as Obama? again, are you serious? JFK attempted to invade Cuba because the people threw out the US stooge brutally ruling over them. Then he started the ball rolling in Vietnam because he didn't like the outcome of their democratic elections. LBJ then expanded the conflict into the biggest clusterfuck in the history of america, killing probably thousands of times as many civilians as Barack Obama. And this doesn't even ******* LBJ's own shadow CIA war in which he carpet bombed southeast asia into oblivion. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died because of his policies. The fact that you think Obama has committed worse war crimes is nothing but pure ignorance of factual information.

[Trotskilicious]

i like starla WAY more than you two

[redbreegull]

starla I suggest you read something like this



and gain some perspective on some of the fucked up shit that has gone on in and because of the united states. it just seems like your view of US history is Obama's real policies and their effects vs. a public school American history class version of everything up until 2008.

[redbreegull]

except that you also subscribe to some of the misinformation about his policies created by the right wing

[Starla]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

starla I suggest you read something like this



and gain some perspective on some of the fucked up shit that has gone on in and because of the united states. it just seems like your view of US history is Obama's real policies and their effects vs. a public school American history class version of everything up until 2008.

That's exactly your problem. You believe in everything you were told in public school lol, and I don't.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

except that you also subscribe to some of the misinformation about his policies created by the right wing

And you subscribe to sites like think progress and politico.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

liberals also started the mexican war, the spanish american war and the proxy decimation of the philippines, korea, and vietnam.



decimating Libya? please explain to me the scope of the libya strikes because you seem to have such a perfect understanding of them. He's actually killed a lot of al-Qaeda, Taliban, and other assorted militant leaders through the CIA war in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Now the civilian toll is probably not worth it, and I think the bottom line is that killing terrorists makes more terrorists, but the drone war has been very effective in fulfilling its mission. Keep in mind also that a new report released by the Pakistani government puts the number of civilian deaths far, far lower than independent source has estimated, as low as 60 something in the whole set of operations. Now this could just be because of Pakistan's terrible capacity to do anything correctly, but it's still worth noting that there is the possibility that accounts of thousands dead in the drone war could be inaccurate.



like every single one, are you serious? have you just never become aware of world events until Barack Obama took office?



obama has attempted to close guantanamo but can't. again, you seem to not realize how different entities in the US government interact to make policy

Benghazi is fabricated outrage by the right wing, this is the kind of thing that I don't understand how you could be into unless you get your news from fox or yahoo.

And no democratic pres has committed as many war crimes as Obama? again, are you serious? JFK attempted to invade Cuba because the people threw out the US stooge brutally ruling over them. Then he started the ball rolling in Vietnam because he didn't like the outcome of their democratic elections. LBJ then expanded the conflict into the biggest clusterfuck in the history of america, killing probably thousands of times as many civilians as Barack Obama. And this doesn't even ******* LBJ's own shadow CIA war in which he carpet bombed southeast asia into oblivion. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died because of his policies. The fact that you think Obama has committed worse war crimes is nothing but pure ignorance of factual information.

He's killed more innocent people in drone strikes than actual terrorists, and almost every article that comes out about these strikes, it reads "suspected" terrorist. There is no arrest, no trial, no evidence... they are just killed. Imagine someone killing you because they only suspect you of something.

I just love how you try to prop Obama up and say that he's done nothing wrong. You really are amazing.

[Trotskilicious]

nah starla they don't teach zinn in public school, you got to get to college before the pinkos start handing out The People's History of the United States. Which is a remarkable historical text for a few reasons 1) the completely one-sided presentation, 2) the fact that Zinn has managed to put his stupid name on what amounts to be a collection of documents that proves *gasp* america's government is practically fascist and murdered a lot of indians and did all kind of bad stuff

can you believe it starla the us government responsible for genocide what a revelation that is

[Starla]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

starla is extra stupid today. so much wrong in her last dozen or so posts that I can't even...

But you seem to know everything don't you? I honestly was not aware that JFK funded terrorists. I only knew about operation mongoose, but it's not the same as what obama is doing and has done.

[Trotskilicious]

and yeah seriously it's hard for me to get behind starla's "stupid" because she's not a history student like me and you redbreegull but the fact that you think obama's done nothing wrong even though he's assassinated US citizens without trial

[Starla]

No I'm not a history student, and never claimed to know everything. :] I don't have a problem admitting ignorance on things, but when it comes to rbg's biased views on Obama.... well, he's full of shit there.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

gulags are work camps where the soviets would send talented, intelligent but rebellious individuals (and sometimes not even rebellious just useful) to work on things like radios and nuclear weapon technology

what's going on gitmo is a really nasty POW camp

But seriously, he can't order it closed?

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Starla

And you subscribe to sites like think progress and politico.

the most left thing I read is BBC but good try

Originally Posted by Starla

He's killed more innocent people in drone strikes than actual terrorists, and almost every article that comes out about these strikes, it reads "suspected" terrorist. There is no arrest, no trial, no evidence... they are just killed. Imagine someone killing you because they only suspect you of something.

I just love how you try to prop Obama up and say that he's done nothing wrong. You really are amazing.

yeah for the thousandth time you git I don't support the drone war why can you not understand anything in terms that are not black and white

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

and yeah seriously it's hard for me to get behind starla's "stupid" because she's not a history student like me and you redbreegull but the fact that you think obama's done nothing wrong even though he's assassinated US citizens without trial

enjoy your ride on the starla express, I have said dozens of times in this thread that I am not for the war in Afghanistan, the drone strikes, bombing libya, spying on our friends, spying on our citizens, blah blah blah but it's just easier to not listen I guess

Originally Posted by Starla

But seriously, he can't order it closed?

.........

[redbreegull]

half of your assertions about past presidents and past american policy have been flat out factually wrong on the most literal THAT IS FACTUALLY WRONG type level, so it's not surprising you think Obama is the great satan.

[redbreegull]

like saying obama has committed more war crimes than any other democratic president... that assertion is so incorrect I can only guess you don't know very much about past democratic administrations, in which case I don't understand why you would open your mouth and make a statement like that at all

[redbreegull]

"let me just throw this out in the water and see what bites"

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Starla

That's exactly your problem. You believe in everything you were told in public school lol, and I don't.

well, that's obvious

[redbreegull]

I don't even know what that means. Apparently part of the curriculum now is that although Obama has been a fuckup, he's still relatively mild in his badness compared to most other people who have held the same office. Because that's what I have been saying ad infinitum for 54 pages.